01:12
<sideshowbarker>
sideshowbarker: do you know where I can catch dontcallmedom?
* @dontcallmedom:matrix.org will work I think
or else on w3.org IRC: /msg dom from the #webrtc channel
09:26
<Ms2ger>
sideshowbarker: thanks - the chat window served as a great rubber duck so I don't even need to bother them now :)
15:14
<nicolo-ribaudo>
Hey question about the WHATWG process. I was trying to normatively reference a WHATWG spec in an Ecma spec, but Ecma is not super happy with the concept of living standards. I know that there are "review draft snapshots" (e.g. https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/review-drafts/2024-06/) that I am not expected to reference -- I wonder what happens after the 45 days period that companies have to opt-out from the IPR stuff. Does that snapshot get moved to somewhere as "approved"?
15:15
<sideshowbarker>
No, nothing more happens with those snapshots. No “approval” of them happens, very intentionally
15:16
<sideshowbarker>
Their sole purpose is to get the RF commitments on any substantive changes
15:17
<sideshowbarker>
I’m curious who exactly is not super happy with normatively referencing the actual specs
15:17
<sideshowbarker>
But maybe this is not the place to discuss that
15:18
<nicolo-ribaudo>
Ok thanks
15:19
<nicolo-ribaudo>
But maybe this is not the place to discuss that
Yeah, but can get back once I understand exactly why we/they consider normative references to living standards to be a problem :)
15:19
<sideshowbarker>
OK — but also, actually, I see now that what I wrote isn’t entirely accurate
15:19
<sideshowbarker>
I am certainly not the source of truth on this anyway
15:20
<sideshowbarker>
but you (and they) should read https://whatwg.org/working-mode in its entirety
15:20
<sideshowbarker>

For cases where another standards organization wishes to ensure an anchor is permanently available in the canonical Living Standard, they may file a new issue requesting a permanent anchor and detailing the anchor(s) they would like preserved. See all current and past requests for anchor permanence. The editor can then discuss this request with the requestor; for example, if the editor was planning on making changes in the near future, maybe they would advise the requestor to hold off on linking to that anchor until the changes go through.

15:20
<sideshowbarker>

Consumers who need to reference exactly what a Living Standard said at a given point in time, for example to document what they implemented from or to explain the history of the web platform, can use the commit snapshots functionality. Each Living Standard has a "Snapshot as of this commit" link that gives a frozen copy for such historical reference. The WHATWG will keep these snapshots available at their published URLs permanently. However, other standards organizations are discouraged from referencing these snapshots, as they generally contain contain known issues that have been fixed in the Living Standard, and can mislead implementers and web developers.

15:22
<nicolo-ribaudo>
Oh thanks, I'll share this :)
15:25
<sideshowbarker>
But one last thing: “snapshots” are a separate thing from “review drafts”. Snapshots are “commit snapshots” that get auto-generated/published for every push to the source repo.
15:25
<sideshowbarker>
for example, https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/commit-snapshots/bdb452ef7847a6c394e6914ba13675537eea2180/
15:27
<sideshowbarker>
and those are not for RF-commitment/IPR purposes — instead they are what those paragraphs cited above are about
15:28
<sideshowbarker>
whereas “review drafts” are, e.g., https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/review-drafts/2024-06/ that you cited earlier
15:28
<sideshowbarker>
https://whatwg.org/ipr-policy talks about what “review drafts” are for
15:35
<nicolo-ribaudo>
Thanks again :)
17:55
<Panos Astithas>
annevk: are you coming back?
18:00
<annevk>
Sorry no, I had a brief internet outage and now I have another meeting.