| 02:36 | <roc> | Philip`, gsnedders: Spidermonkey dtrace instrumentation is actually in Mozilla trunk now I believe |
| 02:49 | <takkaria> | I think webkit should have a lower pass rate when acid3 is released than firefox does, because otherwise Hixie is clearly just making Apple look good after the Ogg fiasco |
| 02:51 | <Hixie> | safari looks like crap on acid3, compared to firefox :-) |
| 02:52 | <roc> | Hixie should accept testcases from anyone. Browser vendors and fanboys compete to make other browsers look bad, Hixie quickly builds the most complete test suite the world has ever seen |
| 02:55 | <Hixie> | roc: i was seriously thinking of posting a blog entry saying that bucket 5 was going to be open to the 16 best tests anyone could come up with |
| 02:55 | <Hixie> | roc: and push it to digg, reddit, etc |
| 02:56 | <Hixie> | not sure how to collect the tests though |
| 02:56 | <jwalden> | hrm |
| 02:56 | jwalden | wonders how much of an IE pile-on that would become |
| 02:56 | <Hixie> | i can just say that the tests must show bugs in at least two browsers |
| 02:56 | <roc> | people would push the envelope of what should be considered a "test" |
| 02:57 | <Hixie> | and i would be the judge of what is a valid test :-) |
| 02:57 | <roc> | which browsers? IE and Amaya OK? |
| 02:57 | <Hixie> | ie, opera, safari, firefox |
| 02:57 | <Hixie> | latest trunk only for safari and firefox |
| 02:58 | <Hixie> | i.e. the latest builds i can test |
| 02:58 | <othermaciej> | I suspect a lot of the submissions would not be justified by appropriate standards |
| 02:58 | <othermaciej> | you'd have to require that submissions cite what standards justify them and give a list of allowed standards or something |
| 02:58 | <Hixie> | then they'd get ignored :-) |
| 02:58 | <Hixie> | me ignoring the tests is probably easier :-) |
| 02:59 | <othermaciej> | I guess it depends on whether you have time to process the flood |
| 02:59 | <othermaciej> | and whether it's easy to tell what tests are bogus |
| 03:04 | <roc> | I wish we could share more tests. It would be pretty easy to get our reftests running on all browsers |
| 03:16 | <othermaciej> | we've copied some tests from Mozilla |
| 03:16 | <othermaciej> | movement in the other direction is welcome |
| 03:16 | <othermaciej> | though we have a different approach to automated testing |
| 03:17 | <jwalden> | image comparisons start to lose when multiple platforms enter the picture |
| 03:18 | <jwalden> | and of course the Linux snafu doesn't help either |
| 03:19 | <gavin> | "the linux snafu"? |
| 03:20 | <jwalden> | what libraries you have, the variety of distros all with their own specific patches, etc. |
| 05:36 | <Hixie> | http://www.w3.org/mid/4783BC64.9020607⊙in is so sad |
| 05:37 | <Hixie> | that the first two points required a committee meeting to decide is sad |
| 05:37 | <Hixie> | that the third point will further lead to people considering the "css working group members" to be some elevated group is sad |
| 05:38 | <Hixie> | that the 6th item includes once again talking about the charter and about centering, something that's been discussed for probably more than a decade now, is sad |
| 05:38 | <Hixie> | that animation and transitions are considered out of scope is sad |
| 05:39 | <Hixie> | and that the working group expect a quality spec to come out of encouraging "people" to "draft text", especially without having a true sense of community around the project, is sad |
| 05:41 | <Hixie> | (the saddest part, though, is that if the working group was to see my comments above, they would immediately switch to the defensive) |
| 06:04 | <othermaciej> | I'm not sure why they would want dev.w3.org used for an out-of-scope spec |
| 06:07 | <othermaciej> | does that mean they want to put it in their next charter? |
| 06:07 | <othermaciej> | given the rate of progress in the CSS WG I'm not sure it matters either way |
| 07:30 | <MacDome> | kig: are you writing yet another SVG renderer in canvas? |
| 08:00 | <kig> | MacDome: it's the same old svg renderer in canvas |
| 08:00 | <MacDome> | one you wrote? |
| 08:00 | <kig> | yes |
| 08:01 | <MacDome> | because there are multiple |
| 08:09 | <kig> | i know of canvasvg at least, are there more |
| 11:09 | <Philip`> | http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=1327452.1327492 - "The indexing system takes as input a large set of documents that have been retrieved by our crawling system, stored as a set of GFS files. The raw contents for these documents are more than 20 terabytes of data" |
| 11:10 | <Philip`> | How does that work out? From what I've seen, the mean page size is over 20KB, so 20TB would only be a billion documents, which is off by more than an order of magnitude from the number Google claims to index |
| 14:12 | <Philip`> | hsivonen: I interpreted his "I will show this presentation in russian "mirror" committee for ISO, and I would be very thankfull for all remarks." as meaning it hadn't been presented yet, but is planned to be |
| 14:20 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: oh. I missed that bit. |
| 15:19 | kig | wonders how to do masks with canvas |
| 15:52 | <Philip`> | kig: With clipping? |
| 15:53 | <Philip`> | Or, composite the mask and image onto a temporary surface, and then draw that surface back onto the main surface? |
| 15:55 | <kig> | latter |
| 15:55 | <kig> | clipping is 1-bi |
| 15:55 | <kig> | t |
| 15:56 | <kig> | and easy since canvas already has clip |
| 16:03 | <kig> | source-in :? |
| 16:04 | <kig> | got svg clipping paths implemented, including objectBoundingBox |
| 16:05 | <kig> | in fact, it's so powerful it breaks the SVG spec :P |
| 16:05 | <Philip`> | kig: Do you mean drawing a greyscale mask image (with white for visible bits of mask), then drawing the image on top with source-in? |
| 16:05 | <kig> | yes |
| 16:06 | <Philip`> | http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2007-March/010608.html has a handy table of operators, so source-in looks the right one for that |
| 16:07 | <Philip`> | Oh, I didn't mean greyscale mask image, I meant arbitrarily-coloured image with mask data in the alpha channel |
| 16:07 | <kig> | svg: only geometry primitives allowed inside <clipPath>. cake: whatever you like inside <clipPath> |
| 16:08 | Philip` | puts <foreignObject> inside <clipPath> |
| 16:08 | <kig> | that's, uh |
| 16:09 | <kig> | it'll work, but no foreignObject support so~ |
| 16:10 | <kig> | foreignObject is yet another input-event-stealing travesty? |
| 16:11 | <Philip`> | It usefully lets you embed interactive content |
| 16:11 | <Philip`> | which probably means "yes" |
| 16:34 | <kig> | the problem is exemplified by having a thin titlebar with a foreign object under it. drag titlebar to move the titlebar and the object. mousemove enters object -> drag stops |
| 16:37 | <kig> | solution? explicit drag handling |
| 16:38 | <MacDome> | kig: capture? |
| 16:38 | <kig> | parent doc doesn't get the event and shouldn't get the event |
| 16:39 | <MacDome> | ah |
| 16:39 | <kig> | otherwise you can record input events to an iframe etc |
| 16:45 | <kig> | a hacky workaround on the browser side would be to: if (firstMouseMoveOverForeign) { passToParent; firstMouseMoveOverForeign = mouseOverParent; } else { nickIt; } |
| 17:31 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: yt? |
| 18:16 | <hsivonen> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Web_Hypertext_Application_Technology_Working_Group |
| 18:39 | <jruderman> | ugh, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=280959#c110 |
| 20:58 | <zcorpan> | it's unclear to me whether a literal result element is allowed in other places than as the root element... http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt#result-element-stylesheet |
| 20:58 | <zcorpan> | i think it is |
| 20:59 | <anne-mac> | dude, don't do XSLT; bad :p |
| 20:59 | <zcorpan> | :) |
| 21:08 | <zcorpan> | i thought inline css with xml-stylesheet was implemented somewhere, but perhaps it wasn't |
| 21:08 | <anne-mac> | it sounds like over engineering |
| 21:09 | <anne-mac> | though I have advocated for it to be added to Gecko back in the days :) |
| 21:09 | anne-mac | cared about specs starting with an X back then |
| 21:10 | <Philip`> | (Like XML5?) |
| 21:10 | <Philip`> | (and XMLHttpRequest?) |
| 21:10 | <zcorpan> | i'm tempted to define how it should work, but perhaps i shouldn't |
| 21:10 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: XMLHttpRequest5? :) |
| 21:10 | <anne-mac> | Philip`, renaming either would be bad |
| 21:11 | <anne-mac> | like renaming HTML would be bad |
| 21:11 | <hsivonen> | anne-mac: JSONRequest?-) |
| 21:12 | <Philip`> | (and XBL2?) |
| 21:13 | <Philip`> | I guess you must care about slightly more than just the first letter of the name :-p |
| 21:13 | <anne-mac> | I tried to make that WBL (wibble), but dhaytt refused |
| 21:13 | <anne-mac> | (or wobble) |
| 21:14 | <zcorpan> | with the W standing for? |
| 21:15 | <zcorpan> | Wobble? :) |
| 21:15 | <anne-mac> | Web? |
| 21:16 | <zcorpan> | Wobble Binding Language would have been a pretty funny name |
| 21:22 | <gsnedders> | not very good at binding, then |
| 21:22 | <Philip`> | It's better at bending than binding, I guess |
| 21:26 | zcorpan | finds that <?xml-stylesheet href="#" type="text/xsl"?> ... <xsl:stylesheet id="" ... > works in opera |
| 21:31 | <zcorpan> | ok, updated http://simon.html5.org/specs/xml-stylesheet5 . geez, what a sentence... (in the last paragraph in Processing) |
| 21:32 | <anne-mac> | i see you copied from HTML5 |
| 21:32 | <anne-mac> | that has to be revised at some point to cope with the CSSOM |
| 21:33 | <zcorpan> | copied what? |
| 21:33 | <anne-mac> | in the processing section |
| 21:34 | <zcorpan> | aha. yeah |
| 21:35 | <anne-mac> | have you checked surrogate characters in Firefox btw for entites? |
| 21:35 | <anne-mac> | i think they actually work |
| 21:35 | <zcorpan> | i haven't |
| 21:36 | <anne-mac> | another copy from HTML5 |
| 21:36 | <anne-mac> | hah |
| 21:36 | <zcorpan> | i plan to update that when html5 is fixed :) |
| 21:44 | <zcorpan> | perhaps i should ask the xml core wg if they're interested in this spec |
| 21:49 | <gsnedders> | anne-mac: Like you can talk about HTML5 copies :P |
| 21:49 | <gsnedders> | Oh, wait… |
| 21:49 | gsnedders | shuts up |
| 21:49 | <gsnedders> | :) |
| 22:59 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: HERE |
| 22:59 | <Hixie> | er |
| 22:59 | <Hixie> | here |