| 07:52 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: just fyi, W3C bugzilla is not responding at the moment |
| 07:52 | <MikeSmith> | for the last 10-15 minutes or so now |
| 07:53 | <MikeSmith> | (in case you planning to do any bug responding today) |
| 08:00 | <Ms2ger> | (which might not have been a bad idea, looking at the queue :)) |
| 08:14 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 08:27 | <MikeSmith> | the FF Nightly icon is pretty cool |
| 08:28 | <MikeSmith> | though the old Minefield icon was more fun |
| 08:34 | <Ms2ger> | Aurora's is pretty nice too |
| 13:31 | <karlcow> | http://w3ctech.com/2011/html5 another version of the logo with angel wings |
| 13:32 | <Dashiva> | Summon the lawyers! |
| 13:34 | <karlcow> | Dashiva: why? |
| 13:35 | <Dashiva> | Angel wings might be trademarked |
| 13:48 | <kennyluck> | lol |
| 14:00 | <MikeSmith> | what is the airplane doing to that cloud? |
| 14:15 | <matijsb> | :') |
| 15:26 | <MikeSmith> | ah, a CC0 vs MIT bikeshed |
| 15:26 | <MikeSmith> | breaking new ground |
| 15:28 | <cooto> | tell us more :) |
| 15:30 | <MikeSmith> | cooto: I should shut up about it actually, because I'm clearly lacking the capacity to understand how much of an essential improvement CC0 is over the MIT license the rest of us have been using like fools for so long without seeing how deeply inadequate it is |
| 15:30 | <MikeSmith> | hmm |
| 15:30 | <MikeSmith> | I probably should have shut up before I typed that |
| 15:31 | <MikeSmith> | I think what's really needed here is a Maoist-style "struggle session" |
| 15:32 | <cooto> | hahaha, ok you right |
| 15:32 | <MikeSmith> | where the MIT-license advocates are required to wear dunce caps with stuff like "Class Traitor" and "Reactionary" written on them |
| 15:33 | <MikeSmith> | while the CC0 party members scream educational slogans at them |
| 15:34 | <MikeSmith> | it's like Jaws 5 -- "just when you thought the waters could not be muddied any more than they already have been, we find a way to muddy them further!" |
| 15:35 | <MikeSmith> | grand achievement, that |
| 15:48 | <karlcow> | It's always interesting how these discussions tend to shut up some opinions. The cost of having to push your opinions and the likely violence of the answers of some people make it harder in some contexts. |
| 15:48 | <karlcow> | Basically, it is shutting off participation because people are extreme about their opinions, or binary. |
| 15:50 | <karlcow> | (but then I should probably shut up about that too because this comment will attract discussions I do not want necessary to have :) ah life;) |
| 15:55 | <MikeSmith> | karlcow: btw, thanks for your message on the qa-dev list |
| 15:56 | <MikeSmith> | about the w3c markup validator checking id values case-insensitively |
| 15:57 | <MikeSmith> | I guess I had heard the reason for that before, but had since forgotten |
| 15:57 | <MikeSmith> | and will likely forget it again |
| 15:59 | <MikeSmith> | karlcow: anyway, to me, it's just yet another deficiency in the existing SGML-driven validator that shows why it needs to be replaced |
| 16:03 | <MikeSmith> | karlcow: btw, please take a look at http://www.w3.org/wiki/BrowserTechnologies |
| 16:03 | <MikeSmith> | karlcow: and if there is anything missing there, please add it |
| 18:33 | <ezoe> | HTML5 specification said "a leading newline character immediately following the pre element start tag is stripped." |
| 18:34 | <ezoe> | what about a newline immediately preceeding </pre>? |
| 18:42 | <Philip`> | ezoe: Only the leading newline is handled specially |
| 18:55 | <ezoe> | so if i have <pre>[newline]text[newline]<pre> |
| 18:55 | <ezoe> | i got text[newline] |
| 18:56 | <hober> | yes |
| 18:56 | <ezoe> | so if I render it. it will be |
| 18:56 | <ezoe> | text |
| 18:56 | <ezoe> | right? |
| 18:57 | <rafaelw> | MikeSmith: I emailed public-webapps⊙wo on Friday. Hixie says I should ping you to help get my first email unstuck. |
| 18:57 | <ezoe> | it's interesting why HTML5 has this rule. |
| 18:57 | <ezoe> | only IE9 implement this behavior so this rule wasn't from existing behavior. |
| 18:58 | <ezoe> | but even the IE9 also strip a last newline character. |
| 19:05 | <ezoe> | all browser except IE9 strip first following and last preceeding newline character. IE9 strip last preceeding newline. |
| 19:05 | <ezoe> | Should I blame all browser? |
| 19:06 | <ezoe> | well, at least, in the latest version of IE, Chrome, Opera, Safari and Firefox. |
| 19:24 | <bga_> | hm |
| 19:24 | <bga_> | nice idea |
| 19:25 | <bga_> | UA should read orientation from exif data |
| 19:25 | <bga_> | and rotate image |
| 21:17 | <Philip`> | ezoe: I think some (all?) browsers did the newline-skipping in the renderer, rather than in the parser |
| 21:17 | <Philip`> | so they should give the same appearance as what HTML5 specified, though with a different DOM |
| 21:18 | Philip` | doesn't remember the details, though |
| 21:18 | <Philip`> | (nor the reason for HTML5 doing what it does) |
| 21:42 | <ezoe> | if there is a markup <pre>\ntext\n</pre> where \n is newline character. |
| 21:43 | <ezoe> | innerText should be "text\n". |
| 21:45 | <Philip`> | innerText is a whole extra layer of complexity, I think |
| 21:45 | <gsnedders> | innerText is just a mindfuck |
| 21:45 | <Philip`> | Better to stick with textContent for testing :-) |
| 21:45 | <ezoe> | same. |
| 21:46 | <ezoe> | all major browser except IE don't strip first newline. |
| 21:47 | <ezoe> | if It's stripped in HTML syntax level. I expect i don't see it from DOM. |
| 21:47 | <gsnedders> | innerText has only a limited amount to do with the DOM, however |
| 21:48 | <ezoe> | i tested it against textContent. |
| 23:47 | <Hixie> | jgraham: pms is dead for w3c site |
| 23:47 | <Hixie> | jgraham: i get an xml error |
| 23:48 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: i'm blocking w3c publication until pms works again (will try periodically) |
| 23:52 | <wilhelm> | Perhaps it's not that time of the month. |
| 23:54 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: ok |
| 23:55 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: btw I recently had occasion to crawl through revision history and there seem to be quite a few revs over time that are Python errors |
| 23:55 | <Hixie> | yeah sometimes i just don't notice and my script checks it in |
| 23:55 | <Hixie> | depends how much attention i'm paying |
| 23:56 | <Hixie> | typically i won't notice for changes that are trivial, because i don't review the changes for those, i just do ./build;./commit |
| 23:56 | <Hixie> | i guess i could have my script check for the signature of a python error and avoid doing the checkin in those cases |