| 07:16 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: I'm back now |
| 07:17 | <Hixie> | i probably had a question about some bug or e-mail and replied there |
| 07:20 | <hsivonen> | ok |
| 07:32 | <Lachy> | Hixie, I started documenting examples of how authors mark up subtitles and taglines today. http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Hgroup_element |
| 07:33 | <Lachy> | my initial assessment is that the most common techniques are h1 with h2 for subtitle or h1 with p for tag line. |
| 07:33 | <Hixie> | yeah that was my assessment too when i looked at this a few years ago |
| 07:34 | <Hixie> | wow, even more <div> wrappers around the h1/h2 or h1/p than i remember, too |
| 07:34 | <Lachy> | I'm really not getting the confusion surrounding hgroup though. It's quite easy to understand, although I would make a few minor adjustments to the spec to clarify it |
| 07:35 | <Hixie> | please file bugs for those, i'm happy to clear things up |
| 07:35 | <Hixie> | i don't really get the confusion either |
| 07:35 | <Lachy> | interestingly, the only example I found that matched Jame's suggestion using <h1>.. <subhead>...</subhead></h1> (or whatever it was), was the OED, that used h1/span |
| 07:35 | <Lachy> | *james' |
| 07:35 | <Hixie> | yeah but if you're right they also put some <p>s inside <h1> so... |
| 07:36 | <Lachy> | yes, that too |
| 07:36 | <hsivonen> | Lachy: wow. those examples really argue in favor of <hgroup> |
| 07:36 | <Lachy> | indeed. |
| 07:37 | <Lachy> | oh, the way this page uses hgroup doesn't http://www.apple.com/imac/features.html |
| 07:37 | <Lachy> | :-( |
| 07:37 | <Hixie> | i have been wondering about allowing <p> in <hgroup> instead of <h(n-1)> |
| 07:38 | <Hixie> | mostly my plan is to wait and see if we can get away with not doing that though |
| 07:38 | <Hixie> | (i think if we allowed it authors might get more willing to use it for purposes that don't really fit its definition) |
| 07:39 | <Hixie> | that is, requiring the use of just <hx> leads people to think more about whether what they're doing is really <hgroup> or more of just <header> |
| 07:39 | <Hixie> | anyway |
| 07:39 | <Hixie> | thanks for writing this up, data is always helpful |
| 07:41 | <Lachy> | Hixie, I found a lot of news papers were using h1/p, where others were using h1/h2, for their initial summary just after the article headline. I just didn't copy most of those into there yet |
| 07:41 | <Hixie> | yeah hx/p is pretty common in pre-html5 pages, because it's the only thing that html4 really allowed |
| 07:41 | <Hixie> | (notwithstanding that all w3c specs use h1/h2) |
| 07:42 | <Lachy> | but there seemed to be a fine line between what could be considered a subtitle and what was just an intoductory paragraph |
| 07:42 | <Hixie> | right |
| 07:45 | <Lachy> | Hixie, there doesn't seem to be too much point in allowing p inside hgroup, since authors can just do <header><h1/><p/></header>. They don't need hgroup at all in that case. |
| 07:46 | <Hixie> | indeed |
| 07:52 | <hsivonen> | which variant <hgroup><h1></h1><h2></h2></hgroup> or <hgroup><h1></h1><p></p></hgroup> works better with existing AT? |
| 07:53 | <Hixie> | depends what you're looking for really |
| 07:53 | <Hixie> | but to a first approximation, they're as good as each other |
| 09:25 | <jgraham> | Hixie: Re bug 12299 the confusion is that the non-normative text implies that both .item(index) and [index] return null for out of range index. However [index] returns undefined because WebIDL makes that case work like normal property lookup |
| 09:25 | <Hixie> | oh, i should fix such an implication if there is one |
| 09:25 | <Hixie> | reopen the bug if i closed it |
| 09:25 | <jgraham> | Rather than e.g. amking it work as a catchall that always forwards to item() |
| 09:25 | <jgraham> | No, you didn't |
| 09:25 | <Hixie> | k |
| 09:26 | <Hixie> | i hadn't realised the bug was about the domintro text |
| 09:26 | <Hixie> | that makes more sense |
| 09:26 | <Hixie> | i'll add a comment |
| 09:26 | <Hixie> | thanks for the clarification |
| 09:28 | <Hixie> | right. time for me to head to bed. nn. |
| 09:28 | <jgraham> | gn |
| 10:36 | jgraham | wonders if he dare read enough mail to work out why the WebApps group would consider doing something patently insane like making a case-insensitive virtual filesystem API |
| 10:37 | <gsnedders> | Presumably because that's what all widely used file systems are liked? |
| 10:37 | <gsnedders> | *like |
| 10:37 | <jgraham> | Pretty sure that's not true |
| 10:37 | <jgraham> | Also, experience with FAT shows what a bad idea it is |
| 10:39 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: NTFS and HFS+ both are. Certainly on OSes on which browsers are widely used, they cover pretty much 99% of the market. |
| 10:41 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: NTFS is case preserving although the API is case-insensitive. OSX has grown a case sensitive mode for HFS+ recently |
| 10:41 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: I am aware of that. But in the modes in which both are used… |
| 10:42 | <jgraham> | Anyway the point is that this is a virtual filesystem and being case insenitive has precisely nothing to recommend it on its own merits |
| 10:45 | <MikeSmith> | http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html has been updated |
| 10:45 | <MikeSmith> | only open pre-LC issue is 131 (caret location API) |
| 10:54 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: if/when you're around and have a few minutes, I wanted to chat briefly about ARIA schema stuff |
| 11:14 | <hendry> | is there a nice simple way can you think of for testing utf8 is supported by a browser inline? I.e. without checking page properties? |
| 11:15 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: ok |
| 11:16 | <gsnedders> | hendry: Data URIs? |
| 11:16 | <hsivonen> | hendry: why do you want to test that? browsers that don't support UTF-8 are so old that why would you care about those_ |
| 11:18 | <MikeSmith> | I think there may be mobile browsers use in some parts of the world that don't support UTF-8 |
| 11:18 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: so I've been looking the existing ARIA integration schema with an eye towards updating it to bring it into conformance with the current HTML spec |
| 11:19 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: is it OK if I take a shot at putting a patch together, or is it something you've already been planning to work on? |
| 11:20 | <gsnedders> | MikeSmith: I think most support UTF-8, just don't have non-ASCII fonts |
| 11:20 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, true about the fonts |
| 11:21 | <MikeSmith> | which is nuts |
| 11:21 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: putting together a patch is OK. I'm still entagled in driving small Firefox 4 regression fixes into the tree |
| 11:21 | <MikeSmith> | OK |
| 11:21 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: users of such browsers need some Opera Mini love ASAP |
| 11:22 | <hendry> | I need a simple test to check off WS-1600 & WS-1610 in http://specs.wacapps.net/2.0/feb2011/core/spec.html hsivonen |
| 11:22 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: true, and not just in Asia. I know a few people with Android handsets in North America who avoid user the default browser and pretty much always use Opera Mini instead |
| 11:23 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: well, at least the Android default browser supports UTF-8. |
| 11:23 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 11:23 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: still, it's a good idea to replace it with a Mozilla (or Opera) offering |
| 11:23 | <hendry> | gsnedders: Data URIs look like a nice way of doing it |
| 11:24 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I'd like to get a handset here that I could run Fennec on |
| 11:25 | <hendry> | MikeSmith: did you read http://natalian.org/archives/2011/03/20/State_of_the_browser_2011/ ? When I tried fennec? ;) |
| 11:25 | <MikeSmith> | or Mobile Firefox is the official name now I guess |
| 11:25 | <MikeSmith> | hendry: nope, will read it now, though |
| 11:26 | <MikeSmith> | hendry: not sure what build you tried but I think there have been some significant improvements since then |
| 11:28 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: so, I'll start in earnest on updating the ARIA integration, and try to avoid bugging you, but if I get to a point where I'm stumped, I might ping you for some guidance |
| 11:29 | <MikeSmith> | mostly I guess I don't understand the ARIA spec very well |
| 11:29 | <MikeSmith> | but Steve Faulkner has been helping me a bit with that |
| 11:29 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: I believe the name these days is Firefox for Android and Firefox for Maemo |
| 11:29 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 11:29 | <MikeSmith> | makes sense |
| 11:30 | <MikeSmith> | I hope they keep the fennec mascot, though |
| 11:30 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: ok. re: ARIA. I really wish I'd be able to get to my pending hacking projects instead of fixing fallout from the HTML5 parser shipping |
| 11:31 | <MikeSmith> | OK |
| 11:32 | <MikeSmith> | I've been thinking it'd be useful to have in place by around the start of the Last Call timeframe, so that people can test out the document-conformance criteria of that part of the HTML5 spec |
| 11:32 | <hsivonen> | yeah |
| 11:33 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: btw, as Steve pointed out on the public-html list, we have a case here were the criteria in the WHATWG spec are more restrictive than those in the W3C spec |
| 11:33 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: Yeah, I need to look into that. |
| 11:33 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: I'm not happy about normative parts of WHATWG and W3C specs diverging |
| 11:33 | <MikeSmith> | nope |
| 11:33 | <MikeSmith> | me neither |
| 11:34 | <MikeSmith> | we do also already have the case that ping is allowed in the WHATWG spec but not in the W3C one |
| 11:34 | <MikeSmith> | and Julian in fact raised a validator.nu bug for that |
| 11:35 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: if we end up having to address this, I think rather than providing an end-user option to choose what spec to validate against, it could instead by handled by a build-time option |
| 11:35 | <MikeSmith> | basically, just give an option to choose what driver file to use |
| 11:36 | <MikeSmith> | and add another toggle parameter to the schema |
| 11:37 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: ping is a somewhat milder case, because it can be seen as an additional feature instead of surprising tweaks to a feature that is in both specs |
| 11:37 | <MikeSmith> | true |
| 13:50 | <MikeSmith> | seems like volkmar is closing in on the progress implementation |
| 13:52 | <volkmar> | MikeSmith: it doesn't have a11y (but patches are coming) nor vertical feature (but patches are ready) |
| 13:52 | <MikeSmith> | cool |
| 13:53 | <MikeSmith> | I can see there's quite a lot more work to implement that than most people would realize |
| 13:54 | <volkmar> | MikeSmith: native UI wasn't really easy ;) |
| 13:54 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, I bet |
| 15:57 | <shichuan> | hi |
| 16:00 | <jgraham> | shichuan: Hi |
| 16:01 | <shichuan> | jgraham, do you undestand X{15} from http header? |
| 16:25 | <hsivonen> | https://twitter.com/#!/DanTonyBrown/status/67286248674426881 |
| 16:26 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Is the right answer to that not "keep a ref to any audio objects you might want to pause"? |
| 16:34 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: I don't know of a better answer |
| 16:37 | <jgraham> | Well having document.pauseAllAudio() would be a bit weird I think |
| 16:39 | <jgraham> | You would quickly want ways to pause all video and change volumes and, well pretty much everything |
| 16:43 | <zcorpan> | http://natalian.org/archives/2011/03/20/State_of_the_browser_2011/ has annoyingly low contrast for the links |
| 16:54 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: So the state of the browser in 2011 is that it can't work out when the text you are interested in is illegible? |
| 16:55 | <hsivonen> | hendry: any details about how Firefox for Android sucked? |
| 16:56 | <hendry> | hsivonen: it's a known evidently, patrick from Mozilla followed up. It basically didn't work at all on a Nexus S |
| 16:57 | <hsivonen> | hendry: oh. that |
| 16:57 | <hsivonen> | hendry: I thought Google pushed a system update that fixed it |
| 16:59 | <zcorpan> | it annoys me that dom3 events doesn't use webidl normatively |
| 16:59 | <hsivonen> | hendry: Fixed in Android 2.3.3 says the wiki |
| 17:01 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: Is that all? |
| 17:01 | <zcorpan> | no |
| 19:16 | <AryehGregor> | What's a good way to evade anti-right-click scripts? |
| 19:18 | <Philip`> | Disable scripting temporarily? |
| 19:18 | <TabAtkins> | Ctrl+Shift+J, and then do whatever I need directly in the Inspector instead. |
| 19:18 | <AryehGregor> | Ah, an Inspector shortcut. |
| 19:18 | <AryehGregor> | That works. |
| 19:18 | <AryehGregor> | Thanks. |
| 19:18 | <hober> | TabAtkins: Cmd+Opt+I, you mean :) |
| 19:18 | <TabAtkins> | Whatevs. |
| 19:18 | <TabAtkins> | You mac users and your crazy keyboard. |
| 19:19 | <TabAtkins> | Also, I think F12 is now a shortcut key in trunk? |
| 19:19 | <Philip`> | Is Opt the key with "alt" written on it? |
| 19:19 | Philip` | has never understood that |
| 19:19 | <TabAtkins> | It's the squiggly key. Looks kind of like a #. |
| 19:20 | <Philip`> | I thought that was Cmd |
| 19:20 | <TabAtkins> | I think it maps to Alt on real keyboards. |
| 19:20 | <TabAtkins> | Oh, you're right. |
| 19:20 | <TabAtkins> | Yes, Option also has "alt" written on it on my mac keyboard. |
| 19:20 | <hober> | Philip`: ⌥⌘I |
| 19:22 | <Philip`> | Why can't they just pick a name for each key that is pronounceable and written on the key and used consistently in all documentation etc? |
| 19:22 | <TabAtkins> | I guess that Command is usually what you map Ctrl-based chords to, which is easy to remember, but Option needs another helper to make it obvious that you map Alt-based chords to it. |
| 19:23 | <hober> | I wish they had kept Open Apple and Closed Apple. :) |
| 19:24 | <jgraham> | So tht was anti-right-click scripts to Apple keyboard layouts in 6 lines |
| 19:24 | <jgraham> | Well played |
| 19:24 | <TabAtkins> | I blame hober |
| 19:24 | <hober> | heh |
| 20:39 | <zewt-> | <AryehGregor> What's a good way to evade anti-right-click scripts? <- in Firefox, options -> content -> javascript advanced -> uncheck "disable or replace context menus"; not sure how to do it in Chrome |
| 20:40 | <AryehGregor> | That sounds like it would act weirdly if they actually had a replacement right-click menu. |
| 20:40 | <zewt-> | all browsers really need to not allow that by default; the current situation is a mess |
| 20:40 | <zewt-> | sites shouldn't do that; the context menu isn't theirs to override |
| 20:41 | <gsnedders> | zewt-: Google Maps uses it. No browser will break that. |
| 20:41 | <zewt-> | google maps is the *only* site I've seen use it, and they need to stop doing that |
| 20:41 | <AryehGregor> | The default context menu is often not very useful in fancy web apps. There should be some way for authors to override the default menu, but users need to be able to get the default one easily. |
| 20:41 | <TabAtkins> | zewt-: Once enough browsers implement the context menu api, I'm sure Maps will switch over. |
| 20:42 | <zewt-> | that API to ... do what Tab just said--should help the situation |
| 20:42 | <AryehGregor> | YouTube uses it to suppress the context menu for HTML5 video. |
| 20:42 | <zewt-> | yeah, that's the sort of abuse that shouldn't be possible |
| 20:42 | <zewt> | my browser features are not YouTube's to suppress |
| 20:45 | <AryehGregor> | I assume they've done something sneaky so that "Save As..." doesn't work right anyway. Or have they not figured out such a way? |
| 20:45 | <zewt> | it's also just embarrassing that one of the single oldest, obnoxious JS abuses--alert("RIGHT CLICK NOT SUPPORTED")--still works |
| 20:48 | <zewt> | if you can get to the context menu, I'm not sure how you could prevent the browser from saving to disk |
| 20:48 | <AryehGregor> | I'm not sure either, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some way to mess it up. |
| 21:05 | <jgraham> | We should probably have a makeSaveSlightlyNonTrivial boolean attribute |
| 21:06 | <jgraham> | Anyone who wanted to save the video would have to learn to remove that attribute |
| 21:06 | <jgraham> | Just like now they learn to disable the context menu script and remove the transparent covering divs |
| 21:29 | AryehGregor | is sad when he nests <ol>s five deep in a spec |
| 21:37 | <zcorpan> | AryehGregor: you should be glad that html doesn't have ol1 ol2 ol3 ol4 |
| 21:37 | <AryehGregor> | Heh, true. |
| 21:38 | <jgraham> | Ooh someone removed all the yellow from the logs |
| 21:38 | <zcorpan> | what? |
| 21:39 | <zcorpan> | has krijnh b0rked it? |
| 21:40 | <jgraham> | Dunno |
| 21:42 | <zcorpan> | krijnh: ^ |
| 22:09 | <AryehGregor> | Can anyone confirm in Firefox 4.0 that going to <http://aryeh.name/spec/editcommands/autoimplementation.html#insertorderedlist>;, entering "<dl><dt>foo<dd>bar<dt>[baz]<dd>quz</dl>" (no quotes) in the "New test input:" box under insertorderedlist, and hitting "Add test" causes a reproducible crash? |
| 22:09 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: should we use the microformats wiki for <meta name> as well? |
| 22:09 | <AryehGregor> | Also, if anyone has a more recent, unstable Firefox version, it would be nice to know if it crashed there too. |
| 22:10 | zcorpan | tries in nightly |
| 22:11 | <zcorpan> | doesn't crash |
| 22:11 | <wilhelm_> | AryehGregor: WFM in 4.0. |
| 22:11 | <AryehGregor> | Hmm. |
| 22:11 | <AryehGregor> | wilhelm_, what platform? |
| 22:11 | <wilhelm_> | Leenoks. |
| 22:12 | zcorpan | mac |
| 22:12 | <wilhelm_> | Ubuntu, to be specific. |
| 22:12 | <AryehGregor> | I'm also Ubuntu. |
| 22:12 | <AryehGregor> | It seems like I don't have the latest point release, let me try that. |
| 22:12 | <wilhelm_> | “mv .mozilla .mozilla.old” and try again. |
| 22:13 | <AryehGregor> | Nope, still happens in 4.0.1. |
| 22:13 | <AryehGregor> | You mean try with a fresh profile. |
| 22:13 | <wilhelm_> | Yes. |
| 22:13 | AryehGregor | tries |
| 22:14 | <AryehGregor> | Still crashes. |
| 22:15 | <AryehGregor> | Hmm, now my old profile doesn't come back. That's bad. |
| 22:15 | AryehGregor | pokes |
| 22:16 | <AryehGregor> | I blame wilhelm_. |
| 22:17 | <wilhelm_> | See, that wouldn't have happed if you had mved. |
| 22:18 | <AryehGregor> | I did mv. |
| 22:18 | <wilhelm_> | Oh. |
| 22:18 | <AryehGregor> | I don't have any idea where it got these files from. |
| 22:18 | <AryehGregor> | When I look at my last daily backup, the same folder is totally different. |
| 22:18 | <AryehGregor> | Like with some things that actually have 2011 timestamps before today. |
| 22:18 | <AryehGregor> | It seems to have magicked-up a Firefox profile from 2009 or something. |
| 22:19 | <AryehGregor> | All I did was mv .mozilla{,~}, then test, close Firefox, rm -rf .mozilla, mv .mozilla{~,}. |
| 22:19 | <AryehGregor> | Extremely weird. |
| 22:20 | <wilhelm_> | I work for a different browser vendor, so sabotaging your Firefox install would have required a rather elaborate scheme. |
| 22:20 | AryehGregor | knew he shouldn't have rm -rf'd so fast |
| 22:20 | <AryehGregor> | Ah, but you have a clear motive. |
| 22:21 | <gsnedders> | I mean, you don't hear him saying to run rm -rf ~/.opera do you? |
| 22:21 | <AryehGregor> | Oh. |
| 22:21 | <AryehGregor> | I see what happened. |
| 22:21 | <AryehGregor> | .mozilla~ already existed, so .mozilla is now a subdirectory. |
| 22:21 | <AryehGregor> | Nice. |
| 22:21 | <gsnedders> | heh |
| 22:21 | <AryehGregor> | I absentmindedly assumed I'd get an error if it already existed, but of course mv interprets its last argument in an unpredictable fashion for directories. |
| 22:23 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: dunno, up to them i guess |
| 22:24 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: i think medium-term we should move to a model where the registry (wherever it is) is for reserving names that are being worked on; have them expire after a few years without use; and omve the ones that do get used to the spec |
| 22:24 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: rather than having some in the spec and some not, with no clear distinction |
| 22:28 | <jdaggett> | joe: what's the conf #? 8606? |
| 22:32 | <zcorpan> | http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=6030&to=6031 is an annoying diff for html-differences |
| 22:34 | <zcorpan> | webvtt is still not in w3c html5 right? |
| 22:35 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: what was the <!--TT--> markers for? |
| 22:39 | <Hixie> | that diff should change nothing except move the TextTrack (TT) and MediaController (CONTROLLER) spec text into the w3c copy |
| 22:40 | <Hixie> | (look at the w3c equivalent diff) |
| 22:43 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: but TextTrack was already in the w3c spec for the last two publications afaict |
| 22:45 | <Hixie> | yeah, |
| 22:45 | <Hixie> | but i wasn't sure when i added it that it was staying in |
| 22:45 | <Hixie> | so i hadn't removed the markers |
| 22:46 | <Hixie> | i'd just changed <!--START ...--> to <!--KEEP-START ...--> which has no effect |
| 22:46 | <Hixie> | this diff removed all the KEEP-* markers |
| 22:46 | <zcorpan> | ok |
| 22:47 | <bga_> | is it standard? const select = document.createElement('select'); select.options[0] = new Option('a', 'a'); _log(select.options.length)? |
| 22:49 | <zcorpan> | bga_: yeah, see the html spec |
| 22:49 | <zcorpan> | bga_: except const isn't standard |
| 22:49 | <bga_> | fantastic |
| 22:51 | <zcorpan> | actually i dunno if options[0] = ... is supposed to work per spec |
| 22:52 | <zcorpan> | does it work? |
| 22:53 | <bga_> | yeah |
| 22:53 | <bga_> | const select = document.createElement('select'); select.options[10] = new Option('a', 'a'); _log(select.options.length) // 11 |
| 22:54 | <bga_> | i hope we will can works with other dom collections so easy |
| 22:54 | <zcorpan> | wow |
| 22:54 | <bga_> | %) |
| 22:55 | <zcorpan> | i can't see in the spec that it should work |
| 22:55 | <zcorpan> | so file a spec bug |
| 22:55 | <zcorpan> | here http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/common-dom-interfaces.html#htmloptionscollection |
| 22:56 | <zcorpan> | firefox throws an exception for select.options[100000] = |
| 22:57 | <zcorpan> | opera doesn't, and i daren't try another 0 :-) |
| 22:58 | <gsnedders> | I believe that works in Opera. |
| 22:58 | <gsnedders> | If you have enough memory. |
| 22:58 | <gsnedders> | :) |
| 22:58 | <bga_> | only webkit and opera |
| 22:59 | <bga_> | but nice |
| 23:00 | <gsnedders> | The fact that many things with select elements are O(n) in Opera may not help |
| 23:00 | <gsnedders> | IIRC there are some things with select that are O(n^2) in Opera, but I don't remember what. |
| 23:00 | <bga_> | way to make work with dom more easy w/o frameworks |
| 23:01 | <bga_> | wrong |
| 23:01 | <bga_> | ff and ie ok too |
| 23:06 | <bga_> | gsnedders btw when opera will support Object.seal? do you know? :) |
| 23:06 | <gsnedders> | bga_: In the future. |
| 23:07 | <bga_> | i hope opera will throw exception in both modes |
| 23:07 | <bga_> | as v8 |
| 23:08 | <bga_> | because many ppl use {with} and other es3 stuff but want es5 api w/o silent errors |
| 23:11 | <bga_> | gsnedders also can you node yourself to add proprietary api to throw error if code [[Get]] not existing property of object |
| 23:11 | <bga_> | or Proxy api |
| 23:12 | <bga_> | something like {var a = Object.makeStatic({a: 1}); a.b // error } |
| 23:13 | <gsnedders> | bga_: Throw an exception in what case? |
| 23:13 | <bga_> | i wonder why TC39 hasnt added something like that |
| 23:14 | <bga_> | gsnedders to protect from typos |
| 23:14 | gsnedders | shrugs |
| 23:14 | <gsnedders> | bga_: I mean what you said originally, about V8 doing so? |
| 23:14 | <bga_> | ah |
| 23:15 | <zcorpan> | ok http://dev.w3.org/html5/html4-differences/ should be up-to-date now. please review (and file bugs) |
| 23:15 | <bga_> | var a = Object.seal({}); a.b = 1 // errer even in nonstrict mode |
| 23:16 | <gsnedders> | bga_: The spec should define that. |
| 23:16 | <bga_> | :( |
| 23:17 | <bga_> | many ppl uses es3 only features |
| 23:17 | <bga_> | and can not use strict mode |
| 23:18 | <gsnedders> | bga_: I don't know what the behaviour is off-hand, tbh |
| 23:19 | <gsnedders> | Though I didn't think any of the Object stuff changed the [[Get]] behaviour in either strict or non-strict |
| 23:20 | <bga_> | not [[Get]], [[Put]] |
| 23:20 | <gsnedders> | Oh, [[Put]] |
| 23:20 | gsnedders | can't read |
| 23:20 | <bga_> | in sctict mode - error, in non script - nothing |
| 23:20 | <bga_> | *strict |
| 23:21 | <bga_> | typos |
| 23:22 | <gsnedders> | bga_: Ah, right. It's the fact that whether [[Put]] can throw for any reason is controlled by strict mode |
| 23:38 | <zcorpan> | bga_: did you file a bug on options[0]= ? |
| 23:40 | <bga_> | sec |
| 23:40 | <bga_> | requires js heh |
| 23:49 | <bga_> | zcorpan http://www.whatwg.org/issues/ "E-mail is not valid or does not correspond to a user who has sent feedback that has not yet been dealt with." |
| 23:50 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: ^ |
| 23:50 | <zcorpan> | nn |
| 23:50 | <Hixie> | nn |
| 23:51 | <Hixie> | bga_: what's your e-mail address? |
| 23:51 | <bga_> | bga.email⊙gc |
| 23:51 | <Hixie> | bga_: send me a mail at ian⊙hc |
| 23:52 | <Hixie> | bga_: my script will add your name to the list of accounts in the next hour or so |
| 23:52 | <Hixie> | bga_: you shoudn't need an account to file a bug though |
| 23:52 | <Hixie> | bga_: just use the box at the bottom right |
| 23:52 | <Hixie> | bga_: the account is only used for voting on issues and changing the status indicator thigies |
| 23:53 | <Hixie> | in other news, can we just drop aria altogether |
| 23:53 | <Hixie> | it's caused more problems in html than pretty much anything else so far |
| 23:54 | <boogyman> | lol |
| 23:54 | <bga_> | i dont see any boxes at the bottom right |
| 23:54 | <boogyman> | Hixie: you should drop the ability to put block level elements inside of an anchor tag |
| 23:55 | <bga_> | ah |
| 23:55 | <bga_> | in spec page |
| 23:55 | <bga_> | sorry |
| 23:55 | <Hixie> | boogyman: why? |
| 23:55 | <Hixie> | bga_: yeah |