| 09:15 | <annevk> | jetlag sucks |
| 09:23 | <othermaciej> | yep |
| 09:44 | <dydx> | hi othermaciej |
| 09:44 | <othermaciej> | hello |
| 10:02 | <annevk> | AryehGregor, so I agree it would be nice to share the "insert" stuff |
| 10:03 | <annevk> | AryehGregor, however that means the insert algorithm needs to be split into the steps you need to run before actually inserting and actually inserting the node |
| 10:03 | <annevk> | AryehGregor, calling one "insert" and one "actually insert" seems kind of weird |
| 10:04 | <annevk> | could have "pre-insert" and "insert" I suppose, but it seems kind of weird that appendChild invokes "pre-insert" which in turn invokes "insert" |
| 10:06 | <annevk> | pre-insert would be used by insertBefore/appendChild |
| 10:06 | <annevk> | insert would be used by pre-insert/replaceChild |
| 10:07 | <annevk> | pre-delete would be used by removeChild |
| 10:07 | <annevk> | delete would be used by pre-delete/replaceChild |
| 10:07 | <annevk> | I guess that could work |
| 10:08 | <annevk> | To pre-delete /node/ ... |
| 10:08 | <annevk> | s/delete/remove/ |
| 10:41 | <annevk> | I made the above changes |
| 10:42 | <annevk> | s/above/aforementioned/ |
| 14:58 | <annevk> | So contains() in WebKit is implemented on Node but only exposed on Element? |
| 14:59 | <annevk> | Another difference with Opera is that in Opera you can check for non-Element descendants. In WebKit that simply returns false. |
| 15:02 | <foolip_> | hsivonen, are you around? |
| 15:10 | <AryehGregor> | annevk, I am 147% in favor of a generic contains() on Node that can be used on any Node. |
| 15:10 | <AryehGregor> | That would be awesome. |
| 15:11 | <AryehGregor> | compareDocumentPosition is a nightmare. |
| 15:11 | <AryehGregor> | I wrote my own isAncestor() and isDescendant() helper methods. |
| 15:11 | <gsnedders> | +1 for contains working for any Node |
| 15:11 | <AryehGregor> | Plus, contains() must be cheaper to implement than compareDocumentPosition(). |
| 15:12 | <AryehGregor> | Usually you don't care about the full position, you just want to know either ancestor/descendant or before/after. |
| 15:27 | <annevk> | AryehGregor, hmm maybe |
| 15:27 | <annevk> | AryehGregor, nobody has that though |
| 15:27 | <AryehGregor> | Standards are allowed to add new features sometimes, you know. :) |
| 15:28 | <annevk> | True enough, but I rather be conservative here. |
| 15:28 | <annevk> | Adding a bunch of features is exactly what went wrong with the DOM. |
| 15:29 | <AryehGregor> | Are you talking about expanding contains() or adding the other stuff I mentioned? |
| 15:29 | <annevk> | Both :) |
| 15:30 | <annevk> | Even standardizing contains() |
| 15:30 | <AryehGregor> | Well, ask implementers. |
| 15:30 | <AryehGregor> | I think we could use a few more convenience features like that. |
| 15:32 | <hsivonen> | foolip_: I'm somewhat around |
| 15:41 | <foolip_> | hsivonen, I was adding integration with validator.nu on my live microdata too, see http://worf.foolip.org/microdatajs/live/ |
| 15:41 | <foolip_> | but I can't figure out how to make the source show up on your side |
| 15:41 | <foolip_> | <input type="hidden" name="showsource" value="yes"> didn't do anything, it seems |
| 15:42 | <foolip_> | perhaps copySourceIntoTextArea is where the magic is, but I not sure what it's doing |
| 15:42 | <foolip_> | s/too/tool/ |
| 15:43 | <foolip_> | meh, I should get an IRC client with a grammar checker :) |
| 15:52 | <hsivonen> | foolip_: I have no idea what happens |
| 15:52 | <hsivonen> | foolip_: the explanation might be buried in https://bitbucket.org/validator/validator/src/0a49bcad4ce5/src/nu/validator/servlet/MultipartFormDataFilter.java |
| 15:52 | <hsivonen> | but it's been a while since I wrote that, so I don't remember what oddities it has |
| 15:53 | <foolip_> | ok, I'll just hack away until I find the answer |
| 15:53 | <foolip_> | thanks |
| 15:54 | <hsivonen> | foolip_: IIRC, there's JS that copies the context from the source display to the textarea |
| 15:54 | <hsivonen> | s/context/content/ |
| 15:54 | <foolip_> | hsivonen, but what is the source display? |
| 15:55 | <foolip_> | ok, I see how it works from the site itself |
| 15:55 | <hsivonen> | foolip_: It's an <ol> |
| 15:55 | <foolip_> | just need to figure out why my form doesn't have the same effect |
| 15:56 | <hsivonen> | hmm. maybe I put showsource=yes in the URL even though the content is POSTed |
| 15:56 | <hsivonen> | or something weird like that |
| 16:45 | <foolip_> | I sense frustration: https://plus.google.com/u/0/109022289777044064966/posts/j43r9owxqry |
| 16:47 | <erlehmann> | foolip_, a classic “U MAD” ;) |
| 16:57 | <foolip_> | hsivonen, odd, it looks like the order of the <input> elements matters, when switching name="content" and name="showsource" it works |
| 17:04 | <foolip_> | I'll just use the order that works without further investigation |
| 17:16 | <annevk> | foolip_, would be nice if G+ had a real subscribe function |
| 17:17 | <foolip_> | indeed |
| 17:17 | <foolip_> | I assume it's coming |
| 17:17 | <foolip_> | together with unsubscribe |
| 17:17 | <foolip_> | for all those derailed threads :) |
| 17:25 | <annevk> | mute is unsubscribe |
| 17:25 | <annevk> | although maybe that does not stop notifications? hmm |
| 17:26 | <foolip_> | hmm, that also hides in from the stream, though |
| 17:26 | <annevk> | what a bullshit thread that is by the way, on use cases |
| 17:26 | <foolip_> | better not respond further |
| 17:26 | <annevk> | we know what we want so we can skip the use cases test? mwaha |
| 17:27 | <foolip_> | go ahead and dive in if you want to be punched ;) |
| 17:27 | <annevk> | I never really bothered on mailing lists either so I am not sure I should start on Google+ |
| 17:27 | <annevk> | :) |
| 17:27 | <foolip_> | I hear you're quite used to fountain-wrestling and such, it should suit you |
| 17:27 | <foolip_> | how did that actually happen? |
| 17:28 | <annevk> | well we were at Ann's house which is at Lake Union |
| 17:28 | <annevk> | and I asked Alex about going for a swim |
| 17:29 | <annevk> | I'm not sure why, but he walked over to the water and went on his knees to get a feel for how warm it was |
| 17:29 | <annevk> | that was my cue |
| 17:29 | <foolip_> | it was deliberate?! |
| 17:29 | <annevk> | well yes :) |
| 17:30 | <foolip_> | you're crazy |
| 17:30 | <annevk> | I'll take that as a compliment |
| 17:30 | <foolip_> | was he amused? |
| 17:30 | <annevk> | I jumped in after him, but was wearing swimming shorts |
| 17:30 | <annevk> | he was cool with it, provided I got him a new phone |
| 17:31 | <foolip_> | oh, I thought it was a laptop |
| 17:31 | <annevk> | these days pushing someone in the water is expensive |
| 17:31 | <foolip_> | you wrote "apple hardware" or some such |
| 17:31 | <annevk> | yeah, iPhone |
| 17:31 | <foolip_> | ah well, then you're not quite as crazy |
| 17:31 | <foolip_> | sorry to retract a compliment |
| 17:31 | <annevk> | aaah |
| 17:32 | <annevk> | back to Curb your Enthusiasm |
| 17:32 | <annevk> | LD is awesome |
| 17:45 | <erlehmann> | foolip_, i do not assume google+ gets better. after all, they see that the majority does not care. and feeds et al are not *that* difficult. |
| 17:45 | <foolip_> | there are feeds? |
| 17:55 | <erlehmann> | foolip_, no. but they could have had feeds and chose not to. |
| 17:56 | <foolip_> | do feeds that require authentication actually work in things like Google Reader? |
| 17:57 | <foolip_> | sounds unlikely |
| 18:36 | <hsivonen> | can folks who have a Mac and have never had Perian installed, please, test http://webm.html5.org/ in Safari? |
| 18:36 | <hsivonen> | it seems that I'm unable to revert to a Perianless state for retesting |
| 18:45 | <annevk> | "Your browser supports HTML5 video but does not support WebM. |
| 18:45 | <annevk> | You need to install Perian to view WebM content in your current browser." |
| 18:49 | <hsivonen> | annevk: ok. works. thank you |
| 18:49 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: is https://plus.google.com/u/0/109022289777044064966/posts/PRJjCL75KPu on your radar? |
| 18:51 | <gsnedders> | foolip_: WebKit/OSX has mappings that do that? I thought it all came from querying the QT APIs. |
| 18:54 | <annevk> | So after the big schema.org announcement people are going to try to change everything yet again? |
| 18:54 | <annevk> | Authors are going to be so thrilled |
| 18:55 | <hsivonen> | annevk: http://www.xkcd.com/927/ |
| 19:09 | <foolip_> | annevk, not the people who announced schema.org ... |
| 19:10 | <foolip_> | gsnedders, I'd be surprised if the plugins exposed Content-Type-compatible names for containers and codecs, neither GStreamer, DirectShow or MediaFoundation do |
| 19:11 | <foolip_> | so it looks like Google+ is the new venue for creating web standards :) |
| 19:12 | <foolip_> | for some reason it seems easier to actually discuss things, is it because people have a picture and the font isn't monospaced? |
| 19:12 | <foolip_> | mysterious |
| 19:13 | <hsivonen> | foolip_: too bad the venue excludes pseudonymous people like Ms2ger |
| 19:14 | <foolip_> | hsivonen, it is |
| 19:14 | <foolip_> | I don't think they designed it primarily for people who only know each other by IRC nicks |
| 19:15 | <foolip_> | http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/GitConcepts#Git.27s_staging_area was unhelpful |
| 19:16 | <foolip_> | how am I supposed to write code with random debug print messages and not commit those using mercurial? |
| 19:16 | <foolip_> | without git add -p I am lost |
| 19:16 | <hsivonen> | foolip_: merqurial queues FTW |
| 19:16 | <Philip`> | Maybe since it's web-based there's more a feeling that it's public and you shouldn't say anything particularly rude and unhelpful and you should explain yourself with more context, whereas email feels more private |
| 19:17 | <foolip_> | Philip`, maybe, email archives certainly suck enough that almost no one will read them |
| 19:18 | <foolip_> | hsivonen, http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/MqExtension ? |
| 19:18 | <foolip_> | it seems like everything is an extension in mercurial :) |
| 19:20 | <Philip`> | Isn't modular software meant to be a good idea? :-) |
| 19:20 | <foolip_> | I guess, but the difference here is which modules are available by default |
| 19:20 | <foolip_> | perhaps hg tries to not scare newcomers |
| 19:20 | <foolip_> | git certainly makes no attempt to be approachable |
| 19:21 | <hsivonen> | foolip_: yes, that one. and yes, hg needs extensions to work |
| 19:21 | <foolip_> | my first few encounters with git were funny, always getting me into a state I didn't know how to get out of |
| 19:21 | <Philip`> | I think it's nice that you can treat default hg like a slightly fancier svn, and once you understand it and get annoyed by limitations you can find an extension that removes those limitations |
| 19:22 | <foolip_> | funny in a "haha I need to re-clone the repo and start over" kind of way |
| 19:22 | <Philip`> | instead of being thrown in at the deep end with a million features that you have no idea why you'd ever use |
| 19:23 | <foolip_> | certainly, but I wish there were good tools that allowed me to work with a hg or bzr repo using the git tools that are now hardcoded in my brain |
| 19:23 | <foolip_> | it's like switching between qwerty and dvorak all the time |
| 19:24 | <Philip`> | I wish either hg or git was rubbish, so everyone would standardise on one or the other |
| 19:25 | <foolip_> | yes, that would be great! |
| 19:25 | <foolip_> | doesn't look like the world works like that, though |
| 19:26 | <foolip_> | looks like http://stackoverflow.com/questions/883452/git-interoperability-with-a-mercurial-repository may be what I'm looking for |
| 19:26 | <foolip_> | I already found that n times, but always thought it was the reverse of what it is |
| 19:26 | <foolip_> | odd |
| 19:33 | <erlehmann> | Philip`, hg is rubbish. it is slow. |
| 19:34 | <erlehmann> | foolip_, i use hg-fast-export to merge upstream changes for a game, i maintain the dev branch. so that works, unless you have multiple heads |
| 19:35 | <erlehmann> | (i use git. upstream uses hg. everyone else uses git.) |
| 19:35 | <foolip_> | erlehmann, don't you need to re-export every time upstream changed and rebase --onto your changes? |
| 19:35 | <foolip_> | or is it clever enough to handle that? |
| 19:36 | <erlehmann> | foolip_, it is clever enough. however, upstream does not seem to be clever enough, so i now have duplicate commits. |
| 19:36 | <erlehmann> | as upstream evolves, the old commits have the same IDs |
| 19:36 | <erlehmann> | is that what you want? |
| 19:38 | <foolip_> | erlehmann, sounds like it, yes |
| 19:38 | <erlehmann> | also, if upstream does something that requires you to rebase, upstream is bad-bad! |
| 19:38 | <doublec> | I use hg-git for git/hg conversions |
| 19:39 | <erlehmann> | i do |
| 19:39 | <erlehmann> | hg-fast-export -r ~/share/src/games/minetest -o upstream |
| 19:39 | <erlehmann> | git push origin upstream/master:upstream -f |
| 19:39 | <erlehmann> | (the -f is there because it is just intended as a mirror) |
| 19:39 | <foolip_> | I'd like the two repos to live in the same working tree |
| 19:40 | <foolip_> | doublec, do you do something like in the linked stackoverflow answer? |
| 19:40 | <erlehmann> | everyone telling me that git and hg are equivalent is a mercurial user. |
| 19:40 | <doublec> | foolip_: yes |
| 19:41 | <doublec> | foolip_: it's how I work on the mozilla hg repository - I maintain a git mirror and use that |
| 19:41 | <foolip_> | doublec, I'll try to follow that answer then |
| 19:41 | <doublec> | foolip_: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2011/02/10/git-conversion-of-mozilla-central.html |
| 19:42 | <doublec> | foolip_: and http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2011/04/16/my-git-workflow-for-mozilla-development.html |
| 19:42 | <erlehmann> | reminds me of this one microsoft PR (?) guy i once met, who really wanted me to know that windows can do everything linux can. kinda annoying. |
| 20:39 | <twisted`> | yo, for some reason a piece of CSS get's totally ignored in Chrome/Firefox, got the html + css here: http://jsfiddle.net/pPpbx/ |
| 20:39 | <twisted`> | the offending bit is: http://bastardoperatorfromhell.org/~twisted/jing/index.php?f=2011-07-31_2136.png&h=146&w=229 |
| 20:40 | <twisted`> | the css class is .category_img {} |
| 20:40 | <twisted`> | and somehow doesn't get loaded :s |
| 20:42 | <The_8472> | there seems to be a special character in the css selector |
| 20:43 | <Philip`> | Looks like a U+0010 |
| 20:43 | <Philip`> | (after ".category_img " before "{") |
| 20:49 | <twisted`> | really? let me check |
| 20:50 | <twisted`> | just deleted whatever was there and placed a space, didn't seem to change |
| 20:51 | <twisted`> | ah! |
| 20:51 | <twisted`> | The_8472 and Philip` THANKS!!! |
| 20:52 | <twisted`> | I'll now leave invisible chars on in Coda |
| 20:52 | <twisted`> | :) |
| 20:57 | <Philip`> | If you turn display of invisible characters on, they're no longer invisible characters, so they shouldn't be displayed by that option |
| 20:59 | <twisted`> | Philip`: it showed as a red questionmark in a rotated square |
| 20:59 | <twisted`> | the 'illegal' char, when using invisible chars |
| 20:59 | <twisted`> | but I get your logic ;) |
| 21:17 | <annevk> | http://technologizer.com/2011/07/29/a-brief-history-of-apple-not-buying-things/ is nice |
| 21:17 | <annevk> | analysts... |
| 23:02 | <Yuhong> | FYI, just tried http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/parsing/compat/004.html under Netscape 4.8 for fun. |
| 23:05 | <Yuhong> | FYI, it seems to be equivalent to <em><address></address></em>. |
