| 00:04 | <dbaron> | Hixie, yeah |
| 00:05 | <Hixie> | k |
| 00:05 | <dbaron> | Hixie, also affects their interaction with each other, though |
| 00:05 | <Hixie> | well sure |
| 00:06 | <Hixie> | i thought there might have been a compat reason for the way i made a lot of the border-width rules preshints but the border-style rules ua.css rules |
| 00:06 | <Hixie> | but i guess not if that's the only difference |
| 00:12 | <zewt> | heh, cheers for everyone making the same mistakes http://unity3d.com/support/documentation/Manual/Security%20Sandbox.html |
| 00:12 | <zewt> | You are allowed to download images from servers that do not have a crossdomain.xml file. However, the only thing you are allowed to do with these images is use them as textures in your scene. You are not allowed to use GetPixel() on them. You are also no longer allowed to read back from the screen. |
| 01:35 | <heycam> | Hixie, that "global scope polluter property" term disappeared after simplifying the window named property thing |
| 01:35 | <Hixie> | ah ok |
| 01:35 | <Hixie> | can you update the bug with whatever i need to do, if anything? |
| 01:35 | <Hixie> | seems every time i get around to addressing that particular issue, the solution has changed again ;-) |
| 01:35 | <heycam> | sure ;) |
| 01:35 | <Hixie> | thanks!! |
| 01:36 | <heycam> | just gotta go and buy a couch, will leave a comment later today |
| 01:40 | <Hixie> | cool, thanks |
| 02:59 | <erlehmann> | zewt, Y unity cannot into CORS headers? |
| 03:05 | <zewt> | what? |
| 06:24 | <annevk> | How do CSS animations or transitions interact with the task queue? |
| 07:49 | <zcorpan> | "User agents that support a constructor for an event interface must return true for that interface's extended feature string and the version "4.0"." http://html5labs.interoperabilitybridges.com/dom4events/ |
| 07:51 | <annevk> | pretty good at ignoring feedback given thus far |
| 08:15 | <annevk> | why does ancestor Documents not exist |
| 08:15 | <annevk> | now you have to say something like |
| 08:15 | <annevk> | documents of the browsing contexts that are ancestor of the document's browsing context |
| 08:15 | <annevk> | which is like confusing |
| 08:32 | <Hixie> | isn't hasFeature(), like, gone |
| 08:33 | <Hixie> | annevk: document.parentNode === null because otherwise security error |
| 08:33 | <annevk> | it is, but requests to kill extensions to hasFeature() from DOM Level 3 Events have fallen on death ears |
| 08:34 | <annevk> | I just pointed it out again that my comments have been ignored |
| 08:34 | <annevk> | now I have to wait another month of course |
| 08:34 | <annevk> | but I've only been waiting for answers since March or so, so whatever |
| 08:34 | <annevk> | Hixie, I meant more as a concept |
| 08:35 | <Hixie> | well i can't complain about people taking long to answer to feedback |
| 08:35 | <annevk> | Hixie, not really something we'd expose |
| 08:35 | <annevk> | it's more like ignoring feedback |
| 08:35 | <annevk> | since they claim they have addressed all feedback |
| 08:35 | <Hixie> | just use "document's parent browsing context's document" |
| 08:35 | <Hixie> | yeah ignoring feedback is a better thing to complain about |
| 08:35 | <annevk> | and then I have to do the work to look up what they missed |
| 08:36 | <annevk> | which sucks donkey balls, or something like that |
| 08:39 | <annevk> | Hixie, ah, that makes it slightly shorter, thanks |
| 08:39 | <annevk> | pretty close to a pretty crappy draft of Fullscreen |
| 08:40 | <Hixie> | cool |
| 08:40 | <Hixie> | btw if you want all acnestors i think i've got a term like "ancestor browsing contexts" defined |
| 08:40 | <Hixie> | check the bc section |
| 08:40 | <annevk> | since everyone seems to do something different I specced something close to what Gecko has, left out the keyboard stuff for now, and hope feedback will make it nice |
| 08:40 | <annevk> | Hixie, yeah, using that |
| 08:40 | <Hixie> | k |
| 08:51 | <annevk> | btw, if HTML defined browsing contexts as http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/domcore/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#trees I would get "descendant" for free |
| 08:52 | <annevk> | i'll just define descendant for now and leave that as possible future cleanup |
| 08:52 | <Hixie> | browsing contexts are weirder, they have openers, secondaries, all kinds of crap |
| 09:13 | jgraham | cowers from the death ears |
| 10:50 | annevk | looks up "cowers" |
| 11:15 | <hsivonen> | hmm. I see no mention of ANGLE on Opera 12's about page. Does this mean Opera wrote its own shader validation? |
| 11:22 | <hsivonen> | MapsGL not offered to Opera :-( |
| 11:49 | <hasather> | hsivonen: I think so yes, see http://www.khronos.org/assets/uploads/developers/library/2011_GDC_WebGL/Opera_GDC-Mar11.pdf |
| 11:55 | <hsivonen> | hasather: thanks |
| 11:56 | <hasather> | hsivonen: also see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnVy_uCk_es at 06:50 |
| 12:31 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: Our DirectX backend is as old as Vega itself (and was mentioned with its announcement) — it predates ANGLE existing. |
| 12:46 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: interesting. I had missed that somehow. |
| 12:56 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: But yeah, we have separate DirectX 9, DirectX 10, OpenGL, and OpenGL ES backends. |
| 13:53 | <gsnedders> | Wow. Just had Android crash and lose all my text messages. And not the first time I've had messages vanish due to Android bugs. Not exactly endearing… |
| 14:36 | <erlehmann> | gsnedders, intredasting. do you have cyanogen or an old version? |
| 14:37 | <gsnedders> | erlehmann: old version |
| 14:41 | <erlehmann> | gsnedders, get cyanogen then :3 |
| 14:41 | <erlehmann> | i won a g1 and even there cyanogen runs. magic. |
| 14:43 | <erlehmann> | the bootloader is called the DangerSPL because it has a chance of bricking the device |
| 14:43 | <erlehmann> | SUSPENSE |
| 14:43 | <gsnedders> | Not exactly impressive that HTC ship something unusable., |
| 14:44 | <gsnedders> | And at least one of the bugs that has annoyed me with Android is unfixed upstream. |
| 14:53 | <hsivonen> | I'm waiting for Nexus Prime, because I don't trust non-Nexus devices to get proper software updates |
| 14:54 | <gsnedders> | I'm really, very seriously, considering getting a Windows Phone 7 device. |
| 14:54 | <gsnedders> | Just… there's something wrong that I've reached the conclusion that they might be the best devices today. |
| 14:54 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: does Windows Phone 7 run any Opera products? |
| 14:55 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: Nope. |
| 14:55 | <gsnedders> | (Mobile obviously will never come to it as long as they forbid native code) |
| 14:56 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: I find it a bit surprising that Opera hasn't repurposed the Java version of the Mini front end for WP7 by now |
| 15:06 | <erlehmann> | hsivonen, everything with nexus in name is probably a good idea. |
| 15:06 | <erlehmann> | gsnedders, WP-7 may have a nice interface, but hackability? |
| 15:06 | <erlehmann> | i like the python scripting thing of androi |
| 15:06 | <erlehmann> | d |
| 15:07 | <gsnedders> | erlehmann: I'm not massively bothered. As long as I have an ssh client… |
| 15:07 | <erlehmann> | dumb terminals, here they are again. |
| 15:08 | <hsivonen> | sigh. I contacted the front-line support of a corporation that shall remain nameless explaining to them that their site doesn't work with the HTML5 parser in Firefox and I'm the person who wrote the parser and asking them to put me in touch with their technical staff |
| 15:09 | <hsivonen> | I got back a canned reply that instructed me to flip a pref in about:config |
| 15:09 | <hsivonen> | a pref I implemented |
| 15:09 | <hsivonen> | html5.parser.enable |
| 15:09 | <zewt> | heh |
| 15:09 | <zewt> | so there's a site out there telling people to flip a global preference |
| 15:10 | <Ms2ger> | I would be surprised if there was only one |
| 15:10 | <hsivonen> | maybe I should accelerate the removal of the pref |
| 15:11 | <Ms2ger> | Or rename it again |
| 15:11 | <zewt> | html5.parser.enable.by.the.way.the.person.that.told.you.to.set.this.is.dumb |
| 15:13 | <zewt> | the most discouraging thing is when you google for an error message, and the first google hit is a mailing list post of: you asking about the error |
| 15:26 | <miketaylr> | hsivonen: after finally getting ahold of someone at symantec re: http://www.symantec.com/ja/jp/business/security_response/graphs.jsp?graphid=attacktrends, i was told i probably had a virus |
| 15:27 | <miketaylr> | ( <title/> ) |
| 15:28 | <zcorpan> | miketaylr: i guess generally that's true |
| 15:29 | <miketaylr> | heh |
| 15:29 | <Ms2ger> | Well no, Chrome is the virus ;) |
| 15:29 | <hsivonen> | miketaylr: :-( |
| 15:56 | <smaug____> | I don't understand 4.8.14.2 |
| 15:56 | <smaug____> | the "...and then fired again..." part |
| 15:56 | smaug____ | files a spec bug |
| 15:57 | <Ms2ger> | In which document? :) |
| 15:57 | <smaug____> | HTML spec |
| 16:08 | <michel_v> | Karl made me do it |
| 16:11 | <miketaylr> | whatever it was, my condolences |
| 16:11 | Ms2ger | goes for kicking out isElementContentWhitespace |
| 16:38 | <dglazkov> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 16:39 | <Ms2ger> | MORNING |
| 16:40 | <gsnedders> | Back from vacation? |
| 16:41 | <dglazkov> | gsnedders: me? yes! |
| 16:42 | <dglazkov> | gsnedders: a REAMDE vacation |
| 16:42 | <gsnedders> | dglazkov: Can't see many words on you. |
| 16:43 | <dglazkov> | gsnedders: ok I googled that and still don't understand what you said :) |
| 16:44 | <gsnedders> | dglazkov: I tried you READYOU. |
| 16:44 | <gsnedders> | a/you/to/ |
| 16:44 | <dglazkov> | gsnedders: :) |
| 16:50 | <Ms2ger> | Does Opera support CORS already? |
| 16:54 | <jgraham> | No. Known defect |
| 17:59 | <TabAtkins> | jgraham: reading the backscroll, do you honestly disagree that JS is a functional language? Just to be sure, we're both using the sense of "uses first-class functions quite a lot", right? |
| 17:59 | <TabAtkins> | Because if you're just being snarky about the non-CS definition of "functional", then whatever. |
| 18:32 | <hober> | annevk5: /me keeps reloading https://bitbucket.org/annevk in anticipation of a fullscreen draft :) |
| 19:19 | <Hixie> | TabAtkins: js is not a pure-functional language (it has side-effects) but it can be used as a functional programming language |
| 19:19 | <Hixie> | TabAtkins: generally the term "functional programming" refers to not relying on side-effects or state, though, not so much whether the language has first-class functions |
| 19:19 | <TabAtkins> | That would be why I didn't call it pure-functional, because that's trivially false. ^_^ |
| 19:19 | <Hixie> | TabAtkins: though having first-class functions is probably a necessary component |
| 19:20 | <Hixie> | or at least, having function references |
| 19:20 | <Hixie> | they don't necessarily have to be objects per se |
| 19:32 | <Ms2ger> | Hixie, yt? |
| 19:47 | <Hixie> | Ms2ger: yo |
| 19:48 | <Ms2ger> | Looking at setTimeout |
| 19:48 | <Ms2ger> | It takes a float for the timeout argument |
| 19:49 | <Hixie> | sounds appropriately crazy |
| 19:49 | <Ms2ger> | And then turns it into an int using a custom algorithm that looks almost-entirely-but-not-quite like ToInt32 |
| 19:50 | <Hixie> | yeah i seem to recall there was some weirdness around that |
| 19:50 | <Hixie> | something about not wrapping around or something |
| 19:50 | <Hixie> | i forget |
| 19:50 | <Hixie> | svn blame might know more |
| 19:50 | <Ms2ger> | Ah |
| 19:52 | <Ms2ger> | Well, afaict from the code, Gecko doesn't do that |
| 19:52 | <Hixie> | it's possible webidl has advanced to the point where it can describe the behaviour necessary for compat, this stuff predates a lot of webidl |
| 19:53 | <Hixie> | or the browsers might have become more sane |
| 19:53 | <Hixie> | feel free to file a bug saying it should be simplified |
| 19:57 | <Ms2ger> | Looks like Opera doesn't wrap |
| 19:58 | <Ms2ger> | But I'm not going to wait 2**32 milliseconds to confirm |
| 19:59 | <Hixie> | yeah that's the problem :-) |
| 20:00 | <Ms2ger> | Filed bug 14469, you can open the testcase now so it's finished when you get there ;) |
| 20:00 | <Hixie> | heh |
| 21:23 | <jgraham> | TabAtkins: I don't think "has first class functions" is a good definition of "functional programming language" |
| 21:23 | <jgraham> | Although I will allow that it supports a functional style |
| 21:23 | <jgraham> | In more important questions, wtf is EventException? |
| 21:23 | <jgraham> | Is this something I should know about or did D3E invent it? |
| 21:25 | <Ms2ger> | D3E nonsense |
| 21:25 | <jgraham> | Does anyone apart from Microsof care about that? |
| 21:25 | <jgraham> | +t |
| 21:26 | <jgraham> | They want to add EventException to testharness.js and I think it is stupid, but I'm not really sure that "this spec shouldn't exist" is a good enough reason to complain |
| 21:27 | <jgraham> | Oh, it's in DOM 2 Events too |
| 21:27 | <jgraham> | UNSPECIFIED_EVENT_TYPE_ERR |
| 21:27 | <jgraham> | Nice |
| 21:27 | <Ms2ger> | I just removed it from Gecko |
| 21:27 | <Ms2ger> | Anyway, what's up with not being able to make useCapture optional in Java? |
| 21:28 | <Ms2ger> | public void addEventListener(String type, Object listener) {} |
| 21:28 | <Ms2ger> | public void addEventListener(String type, Object listener, boolean capture) {} |
| 21:28 | <Ms2ger> | wfm |
| 21:28 | <jgraham> | People haven't seriously been complaining about that, have they? |
| 21:28 | <jgraham> | You need to make the third param optional for web compat |
| 21:29 | <jgraham> | So it's optionality isn't optional to specify |
| 21:29 | <Ms2ger> | It is for D3E |
| 21:29 | <Ms2ger> | It's a MAY there |
| 21:29 | <jgraham> | For real? |
| 21:29 | <Ms2ger> | Yes |
| 21:30 | <smaug____> | Ms2ger: did I r+ UNSPECIFIED_EVENT_TYPE_ERR patch? |
| 21:30 | <smaug____> | maybe I did |
| 21:30 | <Ms2ger> | You did |
| 21:30 | <smaug____> | maybe I shouldn't have :) |
| 21:30 | <jgraham> | That's just... wow... I don't even know what to say |
| 21:30 | <smaug____> | since I'm not quite sure I like the DOM4 way to have all the exception type in one spec |
| 21:30 | <smaug____> | s/type/types/ |
| 21:32 | <jgraham> | smaug____: I guarantee to you that in all the cases where it makes a difference having two types there just causes problems (e.g. when authors want to handle exceptions but forget that there are different exceptions for events) |
| 21:32 | <Ms2ger> | Also, other specs can define their own types |
| 21:38 | <oojacoboo> | hey, anyone on the chrome team? |
| 21:38 | <oojacoboo> | I'm seeing a new behavior with tables in Canary |
| 21:38 | <oojacoboo> | was curious to know what is causing the change |
| 21:41 | <jgraham> | In other news, google dropping code search sucks |
| 21:48 | <smaug____> | what is the reason for dropping code search? |
| 21:49 | <smaug____> | and where was it announced? |
| 21:52 | <Velmont> | They said thei're pulling entire Google Labs. Today. -- I read it in a we're deleting Buzz-post on some google blog. |
| 21:52 | <Velmont> | But guess there are much better sources out there on the intarwebs. |
| 22:02 | <Ms2ger> | http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/fall-sweep.html |
| 22:02 | Ms2ger | attempts to improve d3e once more |
| 22:05 | <jgraham> | Don Quixote would be proud |
| 22:09 | <Ms2ger> | Mm |
| 22:09 | <Ms2ger> | If it doesn't work out, I'll just object |