| 04:02 | <JonathanNeal> | What is `findAll`? http://timmywil.github.io/future-of-selectors/#/findAll |
| 05:56 | <heycam> | Hixie_, probably won't get to the incumbent script definition today; I've moved it up my todo list tho |
| 06:08 | <Hixie_> | heycam: i'm off until monday, and then i'm in navigator.plugins hell for a while |
| 06:08 | <Hixie_> | heycam: so no rush |
| 06:08 | <heycam> | ok cool, enjoy your long weekend |
| 08:11 | <annevk> | I don't understand why we'd introduce string constants in IDL. |
| 08:12 | <Ms2ger> | Because Hixie_ doesn't want to write one sentence |
| 08:24 | <jgraham> | I don't understand why we wouldn't want string constants in IDL |
| 08:25 | <annevk> | The thread "ACTION-791: Redraft proposed "status" section that TAG is suggesting for Polyglot" on www-tag is hard to believe. HTML WG only resolves bugs someone files a bug on? |
| 08:26 | <annevk> | jgraham: because it's not justified |
| 08:26 | <annevk> | jgraham: and because it would actually introduce semantics that are different from how the attribute in question works today |
| 08:26 | <jgraham> | annevk: Isn't that just a restatement of the argument |
| 08:26 | <Ms2ger> | Why would you fix anything else? |
| 08:26 | <jgraham> | s/argument/objection/ |
| 08:27 | <Ms2ger> | jgraham, surely the burden of argument in on the one who wants to add things? |
| 08:27 | <jgraham> | Sure, but just saying "it isn't justified" doesn't tell me why you think the justification ("we need it to express this property") isn't enough |
| 08:28 | <jgraham> | AFAICT if we don't add it every vendor will invent their own IDL extension with the required semantics |
| 08:28 | <Ms2ger> | What makes you think that? |
| 08:29 | <jgraham> | Because that seems to be what usually happens when an interface requires certian behaviour that isn't well captured by WebIDL |
| 08:29 | <Ms2ger> | But it doesn't require that behaviour |
| 08:29 | <Ms2ger> | Everyone implements it as a simple attribute |
| 08:30 | <jgraham> | Well this seems to be a totally different argument |
| 08:30 | <annevk> | Yeah, this instance you'd just implement as a readonly attribute that always returns the same value. |
| 08:30 | <annevk> | Exactly as the specification would define it. |
| 08:31 | <annevk> | The question is what string constants would be useful for in general, since here it'd be a mismatch with implemented semantics. |
| 08:31 | <jgraham> | So if you are arguing that the sematics of the attribute in the spec are wrong, should be changed, and therefore there are no use cases that require string constants, that seems much more reasonable |
| 08:35 | <annevk> | I'm not sure where I said anything else |
| 08:37 | <jgraham> | "Because it's not justified" doesn't obviously mean "Because it has the wrong semantics to describe the feature it was introduced for, and there are no other features requiring those semantics" |
| 08:52 | <annevk> | Well I said more than that :-) |
| 10:50 | <annevk> | So IE's file: parsing is saner than WebKit tests suggest |
| 10:50 | <annevk> | This is promising |
| 10:54 | <darobin> | ah, I love that part where annevk gets his hopes up about something to do with the sanity of URLs |
| 10:55 | <darobin> | let's just sit back, relax, and watch him face the bitter disappointment of life |
| 10:56 | <jgraham> | Yeah, seriously, I already got the popcorn |
| 10:57 | Ms2ger | huddles up |
| 11:00 | <SimonSapin> | annevk: "Does file: relative to file:///test/path yield file:/// or file:///test/path. I don’t even… " care? |
| 11:01 | <SimonSapin> | pick one |
| 11:01 | <annevk> | It's more about what picking one implies, but I guess that gets kinda lost of you don't have in-depth knowledge of URL parsing. |
| 11:02 | <annevk> | In any event, it seems browsers differ enough even on Windows to let sanity prevail. |
| 11:02 | Ms2ger | steals some of jgraham's popcorn |
| 11:02 | <SimonSapin> | I suppose that’s for a small audience :) |
| 11:03 | <annevk> | Yeah, my blog often is :-) |
| 11:04 | annevk | goes to buy some popcorn |
| 11:04 | <SimonSapin> | meanwhile in CSS-land, my "background-attachment: local" patch will get twice as big to handle the case where background-clip content-box is combined with border-radius |
| 11:22 | hallvors | haz peanuts |
| 11:26 | <hallvors> | (annevk: happy 10th blog anniversary BTW) |
| 11:42 | <annevk> | hallvors: (thanks) |
| 11:48 | <Ms2ger> | "W3C Invites Implementations of Indexed Database API" |
| 11:52 | <annevk> | "W3C Invites Mockery" |
| 11:53 | <darobin> | but we give them tea and all! |
| 11:53 | <MikeSmith> | w3c: pong |
| 11:54 | <sangwhan_> | can't wait to see the equivalent mail for indieui |
| 11:57 | <jgraham> | What are they invited to? |
| 11:57 | <jgraham> | Is there a party? |
| 11:58 | <darobin> | why, tea |
| 11:58 | <darobin> | with scones |
| 12:01 | annevk | <3 scones |
| 12:05 | <annevk> | So Chrome does more file URL fixup than Firefox does on Windows. |
| 12:06 | <annevk> | Nobody does it quite like Internet Explorer though. |
| 12:06 | <SimonSapin> | How surprising |
| 12:07 | darobin | ponders scone-flavoured popcorn |
| 12:11 | <darobin> | mmmm, so new Date("2013-02-29") returns an invalid date on Gecko but March 1 on Blink |
| 12:11 | <darobin> | fuuuuuuuuuuu |
| 12:12 | <darobin> | ah, and more discrepancies in new Date("Thh:mm) |
| 12:13 | <annevk> | Maha, and you're enjoying popcorn over URLs... Date parsing, that's where it's at :p |
| 12:14 | <darobin> | lol |
| 12:14 | <darobin> | I reckon date parsing is easier than URLs |
| 12:14 | <Ms2ger> | Do you? |
| 12:14 | <darobin> | dates only become really interesting once you throw in I18N |
| 12:14 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: we're talking about URLs here |
| 12:36 | <hallvors> | We rewrote Opera's date parsing a year or two ago. Those were interesting times.. ;) |
| 12:38 | <hallvors> | Heh. Trying to debug Google Plus in Opera 12 got me into a state where Opera was hanging and not even "End process" in the WinXP Task manager could kill it. |
| 12:39 | <hallvors> | I've never seen that before :-o |
| 12:40 | hallvors | tempts fate by trying again from Ubuntu .. |
| 12:46 | <SimonSapin> | Zombie Opera sounds kinda cool |
| 12:55 | <annevk> | Hmm, WebKit/Chromium has another quirk nobody else has: file:///c:test becomes file:///C:/test rather than remaining the same |
| 12:56 | <jgraham> | I remember those date parsing tests |
| 12:57 | <hallvors> | Windows restart time :-/ |
| 12:57 | <jgraham> | I guess we could even submit them somewhere if TC39 didn't leave date parsing as an exercise to the reader |
| 13:03 | <Ms2ger> | Make matjas spec it :) |
| 13:04 | <annevk> | Whoa, another Webkit/Chromium quirk: file:///C:/../test/ gives file:///C:/test/ rather than file:///test/ |
| 13:04 | <jgraham> | And turn the results into a novel called 50 Shades of Specification? |
| 13:21 | <annevk> | Filed http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=257354 |
| 13:49 | <gsnedders> | Those date parsing tests are timezone dependent, too, just to make it more fun. |
| 14:01 | <darobin> | gsnedders: it gets more fun when you need to open http://www.amazon.co.uk/Calendrical-Calculations-Nachum-Dershowitz/dp/0521702380/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=19U91O2EGYIPS&coliid=I56NXMCE2SOZD |
| 14:04 | <Hixie_> | annevk: it would indeed be even cooler if there was a way to have the same semantics concisely |
| 14:05 | <annevk> | Hixie_: it seems if it's only for one or two instances adding it to IDL is not really useful |
| 14:05 | <annevk> | Hixie_: especially as readonly attribute covers it quite well |
| 14:05 | <Hixie_> | if heycam's willing to add it, it's useful to me :-) |
| 14:11 | <gsnedders> | darobin: :) |
| 15:03 | <gsnedders> | Where do reviews of CSS tests happen nowadays? Randomly on mailing lists? |
| 15:03 | <Ms2ger> | What makes you think they happen? |
| 15:04 | <gsnedders> | Well, I was doubting that. But what does "submitted for review" mean? Just it's been put in the right folder, nothing apart from flipping a flag? |
| 15:05 | <Ms2ger> | Put in the right folder, aiui |
| 15:07 | <jgraham> | Just make a pull request on the github repo |
| 15:07 | <jgraham> | (I kid, I kid) |
| 15:08 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Man, you so funny. |
| 15:08 | <Ms2ger> | Apparently plinss wants to get shepherd on github first |
| 15:08 | <gsnedders> | Why is pushing stuff to github taking so long suddenly? Meh. |
| 15:10 | <jgraham> | You think you have problems. Whenever github goes down I get like 100 emails an hour from critic with all the branches that can't update |
| 15:41 | <gsnedders> | What's the state of the HTML Editing APIs spec? |
| 15:42 | <Ms2ger> | Aryeh is still studying |
| 15:43 | <gsnedders> | I'm aware of that. I'm just guessing nobody else has taken it over? |
| 15:44 | <Ms2ger> | No |
| 15:52 | <jgraham> | I think the official status is "Abandon all hope ye who enter here" |
| 17:19 | <mpt> | As long as <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/states-of-the-type-attribute.html#date-and-time-state-%28type=datetime%29>; et seq. say "User agents should allow the user to set the value to the empty string.", <http://developers.whatwg.org/states-of-the-type-attribute.html#date-state-%28type=date%29>; et seq. probably should warn authors that the user might. |
| 17:21 | <mpt> | It's not an obvious possibility if the control has a non-empty default value. |
| 17:26 | <jgraham> | Does any UA actually allow that? |
| 17:26 | <jgraham> | Or rather, what's the use case? |
| 17:37 | <jgraham> | I think my life would have been \epsilon better if there weren't multimegabyte videos checked in to the testharness.js repository |
| 17:44 | <mpt> | jgraham, one I've experienced (though not on the Web) was where I entered an address book contact's birth year, then later blanked it because they admitted giving a false age |
| 17:49 | <jgraham> | I guess that's a reasonable use case |
| 19:11 | <Ms2ger> | Oh look, e4x: http://blog.vjeux.com/2013/javascript/jsx-for-the-real-dom.html |
| 19:12 | <zewt> | D: |