| 00:00 | <cabanier> | zewt: creating offscreen canvas in a worker and transferring the bitmap back make sense |
| 00:00 | <cabanier> | zewt: but the spec is written so an on-screen canvas can be transferred too. |
| 00:00 | <cabanier> | zewt: I don't know how that can work :-S |
| 00:02 | <zewt> | rendering to onscreen from a thread is probably fine as long as it's loosely coupled, but it probably gets hairier if you eg. allow reading pixel data from the ui thread while rendering in another thread |
| 00:03 | <cabanier> | zewt: unsure. |
| 00:03 | <cabanier> | zewt: can you transfer GPU resources between threads? |
| 00:03 | <cabanier> | zewt: I thought that was not that easy |
| 00:04 | <zewt> | i guess the trickier part is compositing, which is something native games don't have to worry about |
| 00:05 | <cabanier> | zewt: how so? you mean composite the canvas back on the main screen? |
| 00:05 | <zewt> | right, compositing it into the page (there might be other things on top of it, css effects, whatever else) |
| 00:06 | <zewt> | compared to simply telling opengl to output to a region inside a window |
| 00:07 | <cabanier> | zewt: yeah. it has to line up with the frame rate |
| 00:07 | <cabanier> | zewt: that might be hard + lots of overhead |
| 00:08 | <cabanier> | zewt: have an efficient way to pass big bitmaps/structures between workers seems more useful |
| 00:08 | <zewt> | (sorry, it's been a few years since I've been in native opengl land, so I'm rusty on the details) |
| 00:11 | <cabanier> | zewt: it's been a while for me too :-) |
| 00:13 | <cabanier> | zewt: we need font services in workers too, loading of resources, etc |
| 00:14 | <zewt> | https://zewt.org/~glenn/curves/ things like this make sense to do in a worker, non-realtime stuff |
| 00:14 | <zewt> | (that's webgl, not 2d canvas) |
| 00:16 | <zewt> | i've done image processing with opengl that takes on the order of 60 seconds to run (wasn't web, just native stuff), workers would be particularly helpful there |
| 00:22 | <cabanier> | zewt: yes. usefull for offscreen things. |
| 00:23 | <cabanier> | zewt: pdf.js seems to work well with workers too. rendering pages in workers |
| 00:30 | <cabanier> | (cooking) |
| 01:32 | <roc> | cabanier: where did that GL-in-workers feedback you quoted come from? |
| 01:34 | <cabanier> | roc: https://www.khronos.org/webgl/public-mailing-list/archives/1306/msg00050.html |
| 01:34 | <roc> | ta |
| 01:42 | <roc> | the issue of synchronizing with DOM state sounds like it wouldn't apply to games so much |
| 01:43 | <roc> | And the game developers I've talked to are obsessed with stable frame rate just as much as input latency. Workers would help the former, and support for delivering input events to workers could be added separately. |
| 02:26 | <cabanier> | roc: it's not so much DOM as it is synchronizing with the framerate. Is there a requestAF for a worker? |
| 02:35 | <roc> | I'm not sure. It's obviously needed, but it's not hard. |
| 02:48 | <cabanier> | roc: can you efficiently sync textures between threads? or is it gpu->cpu->gpu |
| 03:31 | <roc> | that depends on drivers and platform. |
| 03:32 | <roc> | but typically you can. |
| 03:33 | <roc> | If you can't, getting WebGL to work well with asynchronous compositing would be pretty hard. |
| 03:37 | <cabanier> | http://www.equalizergraphics.com/documentation/parallelOpenGLFAQ.html |
| 03:37 | <cabanier> | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11097170/multithreaded-rendering-on-opengl |
| 03:45 | <cabanier> | https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/graphicsimaging/conceptual/opengl-macprogguide/opengl_threading/opengl_threading.html |
| 03:52 | <roc> | those don't really answer the question you asked. |
| 03:53 | <roc> | for example, on Mac you have IOSurfaces, and on Windows you have DXGI texture sharing, which work well. |
| 03:54 | <cabanier> | it seems that it's possible |
| 03:55 | <cabanier> | canvas2s draws to a texture that you can then composite |
| 03:55 | <cabanier> | so drawing in a thread and compositing in main thread |
| 03:56 | <roc> | everyone's compositing in a dedicated thread now. |
| 03:56 | <cabanier> | unsure how you'd synchronize though |
| 03:58 | <cabanier> | do you have a paper on your compositor? does canvas draw in the compositor thread or in the main one? |
| 04:27 | <cabanier> | roc: if it's like this: http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/compositor-thread-architecture it should work. you'd need requestAF in the worker so you can sync it |
| 04:27 | <cabanier> | roc: and the compositor would have to wait for both threads to be idle, I *think* |
| 05:46 | <roc> | our is like that, but we don't block the main thread. |
| 12:59 | <SP33D> | Hello Sirs is any one here that can assist me with registering 2 tags? |
| 13:00 | <SP33D> | i Try to sign up my self and got adviced by the page to ask here since the site is under attak |
| 13:03 | <SP33D> | i need og:site_name and rights added to the list where og:site_name spezifis the titel opengraph tag and rights is where some Copyright infos are set do you need any more info or can give a account? |
| 13:13 | <gsnedders> | SP33D: See <http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/FAQ#Is_there_a_process_for_adding_new_features_to_a_specification.3F>; |
| 13:34 | <SP33D> | uhhhh |
| 13:34 | <SP33D> | this gets more hard as i tought thx for the infos :D |
| 13:35 | <SP33D> | now i know why no one has added this specs :D |
| 15:41 | <annevk> | Why the fuck does GitHub keep scrolling back up in a diff-view |
| 15:41 | <annevk> | If it's out of focus. That's super annoying |
| 16:02 | <SP33D> | annevk not as anoying as getting seo fails coz missing 2 lines in a wiki |
| 16:02 | <SP33D> | :D |
| 16:02 | <SP33D> | and adding to lines to the wiki depends on writing a book |
| 16:02 | <SP33D> | ::D |
| 16:11 | <SP33D> | and then i saw the link readed a bit around in the content and got annoyed |
| 16:11 | <GPHemsley> | SP33D: What is your desired username and e-mail address? |
| 16:11 | <GPHemsley> | That link refers to full-on new features. |
| 16:11 | <SP33D> | GPH probally i don't need one |
| 16:11 | <SP33D> | since the changes will not stay and all that |
| 16:11 | <GPHemsley> | Well, that's up to you/ |
| 16:11 | <SP33D> | i am simply confused i got a info that i need to add some tags to that wiki |
| 16:12 | <SP33D> | and then there was a big problem |
| 16:12 | <GPHemsley> | In order to edit http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MetaExtensions you need a wiki account |
| 16:12 | <SP33D> | and then i am allwoed to simply insert the both meta tags without writing a book to a existing member that maintaincs any specs or else? |
| 16:13 | <GPHemsley> | Well, your terms should be associated with a spec somewhere, but yes |
| 16:13 | <GPHemsley> | I am not the arbiter of that list, but I do have the power to give you editing privileges to it |
| 16:13 | <SP33D> | thats nice my desired name and email ist name: DirektSPEED mail: info⊙dd |
| 16:14 | <SP33D> | i only wanna make 2 new additions "rights" for copyright infos and "og:site_name" since its opengraph sitename tag |
| 16:14 | <SP33D> | thats it |
| 16:14 | <SP33D> | :D |
| 16:14 | <GPHemsley> | SP33D: OK, check your e-mail. |
| 16:14 | <annevk> | SP33D: everyone can add proposals there without problems |
| 16:15 | <SP33D> | befor i got this answer 15:13:02 - gsnedders: SP33D: See <http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/FAQ#Is_there_a_process_for_adding_new_features_to_a_specification.3F>;; |
| 16:15 | <SP33D> | then i readed it a bit and then got realy bad hurted in my heart and head |
| 16:15 | <GPHemsley> | Yeah, that was the wrong response to this request. |
| 16:16 | <GPHemsley> | That is a response to another type of request. |
| 16:16 | <GPHemsley> | Which you do not appear to be making. |
| 16:16 | <annevk> | SP33D: that's for features that need to go into browsers |
| 16:16 | <SP33D> | ya thats maybe if some one reqests to rename World Wide Web to anything else |
| 16:16 | <annevk> | SP33D: although for long term <meta name> values I guess it's kinda similar |
| 16:16 | <annevk> | but just registering some values you use is trivial |
| 16:24 | <SP33D> | thx a lot |
| 16:24 | <SP33D> | that helped much |
| 16:25 | <SP33D> | even if i don't understand proposal and all that stuff that is there |
| 16:25 | <SP33D> | its nice now :D |
| 17:59 | <annevk> | oh GPHemsley, Satyam requested via email, fwiw |
| 18:00 | <annevk> | SP33D: you might want to add some links so others can figure out where these values are defined |
| 18:00 | <annevk> | SP33D: helps evaluating proposals ;) |
| 18:19 | <Ms2ger> | annevk, btw, do you happen to have outstanding changes in your xref repo? |
| 18:20 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: not anymore ;) |
| 18:21 | <Ms2ger> | Thanks |
| 18:21 | <Hixie_> | abarth: what's the status of https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/user-interface-safety/raw-file/tip/user-interface-safety.html#frame-options ? |
| 18:24 | <Hixie_> | anyone know anything about the status of doing seamless iframes cross-origin ? |
| 18:25 | <annevk> | I know that I'm way behind on the event stuff and that I hate the event stuff |
| 18:26 | <Ms2ger> | I should write some tests |
| 18:26 | <annevk> | In particular the event requirements of Shadow DOM and seamless iframes combined is ... |
| 18:26 | Ms2ger | sighs |
| 18:27 | <annevk> | I guess I should convert these URL tests into some reusable format too and then expand on them. |
| 18:44 | <annevk> | JakeA: http://url.spec.whatwg.org/#dom-url has an example for document.baseURI now |
| 19:21 | <Ms2ger> | Really, http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=strawman:binary_integer_literals |
| 19:28 | <jgraham> | Why not? |
| 19:31 | <odinho> | annevk: If you get lots of minions on a testtwf-happening, you could couch people to do converting. |
| 19:31 | <odinho> | Converting works rather well for events like that, because it has low bar of entry. |
| 19:34 | <jgraham> | odinho: s/well/badly/ and s/because.*$/because no one wants to do it/ |
| 19:35 | <Ms2ger> | Also, writing tests for anything that isn't fancy |
| 19:35 | <jgraham> | At least the only example I remember of it happening was the apache cordova thing, and those guys were being paid or something |
| 19:36 | <jgraham> | (or, if they weren't being paid they at least had the pre-determined goal of doing conversions) |
| 19:36 | <odinho> | Hmm. The people in webappsec has been converting a bit. Although not super successfully. |
| 19:36 | <odinho> | Yea, might be true that. |
| 19:37 | <jgraham> | Yeah, testtwf has an unfortunate bias towards the shiny |
| 19:37 | <odinho> | But actually having a list of tests that needs to be written (even if they already are, but don't show them) is easy. |
| 19:37 | <odinho> | Only having one test-file already on the go. |
| 19:37 | <odinho> | URL's are quite shiny, don'tchathink? |
| 19:38 | <odinho> | urls blabla |
| 19:47 | <jgraham> | Pretty sure that urls are duller than dull to most people |
| 19:48 | <jgraham> | Even the IETF don't think that there's any problems left to solve |
| 19:51 | <odinho> | Easy to upsell. You'll be working on URLS MAN IT*S THE THING THAT EVERYONE USE!!11 |
| 20:13 | <annevk> | odinho: it shouldn't be much work once I've figured out how I want to do it |
| 20:13 | <annevk> | odinho: now if someone else wants to sign up for that, they can do it :) |
| 20:14 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: has been in the spec for over a year reportedly |
| 20:20 | <GPHemsley> | annevk: An admin@ one? (If so, please reply to it so I can keep track.) |
| 20:20 | <annevk> | GPHemsley: no |
| 20:20 | <GPHemsley> | ah, then it doesn't matter :) |
| 20:20 | <GPHemsley> | or, I guess it does |
| 20:20 | <GPHemsley> | but whatever |
| 20:20 | <GPHemsley> | :P |
| 20:26 | <jpwhiting> | MikeSmith: btw, in my patch I changed build/build.py to add a buildSchemaDriverSta, since we are using a custom rnc file for smart tv alliance specification, but I'm not sure if that's even required |
| 21:06 | <Hixie_> | i think i might start summarising feature requests we've received by e-mail, and filing bugs for them, so that there's more visibility into what features have been requested |
| 21:06 | <Hixie_> | can anyone think of a problem with doing that? |
| 21:33 | <annevk> | Hixie_: sounds good |
| 21:33 | <annevk> | Hixie_: better tracking of bugs you're not cc'd on would be nice though |
| 21:34 | <annevk> | Hixie_: some kind of stream, though I guess we might have that already somehow? |
| 21:38 | <Hixie_> | annevk: yeah dunno |
| 21:39 | <Hixie_> | annevk: you can watch contributor⊙wo, i think that covers most bugs? |
| 21:39 | <Hixie_> | or just watch me |
| 21:39 | <annevk> | yeah, I guess I can setup something |
| 21:40 | <annevk> | I kinda liked the HTML situation with the mailing list, so I could just visit the archive every couple of days and browse |
| 21:40 | <annevk> | rather than have it all in my inbox |
| 21:41 | <Hixie_> | hmmmm |
| 21:42 | <Hixie_> | you can get a bug list of bugs that are assigned to me that have changed recently |
| 22:07 | <SimonSapin> | " Date on which the resource was changed. (DC doesn't spec a date format but the established practice is YYYY-MM-DD.) " :( |
| 22:07 | <SimonSapin> | (http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MetaExtensions dcterms.modified) |
| 22:08 | <annevk> | just use HTTP |
| 22:09 | <SimonSapin> | I’m looking for something to map to PDF’s CreationDate and ModDate in WeasyPrint |
| 22:11 | <SimonSapin> | annevk: do you mean take a date from HTTP headers? |
| 22:11 | <SimonSapin> | I need to parse such dates, not write them |
| 22:18 | <annevk> | SimonSapin: you? |
| 22:18 | <annevk> | SimonSapin: I thought you were doing layout |
| 22:18 | <annevk> | Oh WeasyPrint |
| 23:46 | <Hixie_> | woah, i didn't realise FormData was opaque |
| 23:49 | <annevk> | Hixie_: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/FormData |
| 23:49 | <Hixie_> | yeah, cc'ed you on a bug to track it |
| 23:49 | <annevk> | Although maybe it should mirror http://url.spec.whatwg.org/#urlquery now that it exists. I haven't quite figured out the value space |
| 23:49 | <annevk> | Well, thought about |
| 23:50 | <Hixie_> | value space? |
| 23:50 | <annevk> | URLQuery is a list of name-value. FormData is a list of name/value/filename? |
| 23:50 | <jpwhiting> | MikeSmith: I'm wondering what is required in validator.nu in order to run, I'm thinking maybe just build, dependencies/*.jar and jars is all that is needed? |
| 23:51 | jpwhiting | tries |
| 23:51 | <annevk> | Oh, name/value/type/filename even. |
| 23:51 | <Hixie_> | yeah, something like that |
| 23:51 | <Hixie_> | there's some magic around some of the values |
| 23:51 | <Hixie_> | most don't have a filename |
| 23:51 | <annevk> | Hixie_: how did this come up btw? |
| 23:52 | <Hixie_> | going through all feature requests mapping them to bugs |
| 23:52 | <Hixie_> | and apparently at some point i was bitching that you can't get to a form's data easily |
| 23:55 | <annevk> | heh |
| 23:56 | <annevk> | I guess the map would be String to (String or File) |
| 23:56 | <annevk> | The problem with that is that it gives people ways to create File objects with names, which some people were opposed to, but which also seems quite silly to be opposed to... |
| 23:59 | <zewt> | seems like an obvious thing, Files are just Blobs with a name and timestamp attached |