| 00:16 | <annevk> | heycam: so regardless of whether Date is right or not, obj.attr != obj.attr is wrong |
| 00:17 | <heycam> | annevk, yeah, if I were being consistent, I would disallow Date as an attribute type for the same reasons as sequence<> |
| 00:18 | <annevk> | heycam: I think the frozen concept could help us here, if they make it work for Date |
| 00:18 | <heycam> | annevk, that could work. if HTML then defines that a new object gets returned whenever the value changes. |
| 00:18 | <annevk> | heycam: yeah, I think that's generally the way we want to go |
| 00:19 | <Hixie_> | we have several Date attributes in HTML |
| 00:19 | <Hixie_> | even some non-readonly ones |
| 00:19 | <annevk> | Hixie_: startDate, valueAsDate, what else? |
| 00:20 | <Hixie_> | just those i think |
| 00:20 | <annevk> | Okay, I couldn't find more :-) |
| 00:22 | <annevk> | Use Number for timezoneless, Date for timezone, but then Date is actually timezoneless, so hah! |
| 00:31 | <Hixie_> | what? |
| 00:32 | <annevk> | Hixie_: I started this thread on es-discuss about frozen Date objects. In that thread <media>.startTime came up which some thought ought to use number, because timezone is not relevant. However, Date objects always return the user's timezone (even when that changes), so they're effectively just a wrapper for a number-based timestamp. |
| 00:33 | <annevk> | Hixie_: and expose some information about the user's whereabouts turns out. |
| 00:34 | <Hixie_> | that... didn't help me understand what is going on |
| 00:34 | <Hixie_> | Date is a number, yes |
| 00:34 | <Hixie_> | a number with the semantic of being a defined moment of time in UT1. |
| 00:39 | <Hixie_> | afk |
| 01:12 | <annevk> | Much promise FUD, but so little interest to debunk it. |
| 01:12 | annevk | continues fixing Notifications |
| 01:16 | <annevk> | Should places that take a DOMString also take a URL? |
| 01:16 | <annevk> | I guess they do in a way since URL stringifies. |
| 05:12 | <develCuy> | got " Bad value copyright for attribute name on element meta: Keyword copyright is not registered." from http://validator.w3.org/ |
| 05:13 | <develCuy> | Can you please help register my company? |
| 05:30 | <develCuy> | woops, just noticed that "copyright" metatag is not yet available in HTML5 |
| 05:30 | <develCuy> | sorry for the noise... |
| 08:37 | <kochi> | MikeSmith: ping? |
| 10:03 | <MikeSmith> | kochi: here now |
| 10:04 | <MikeSmith> | sorry, was on the train back from SFC to Tokyo |
| 10:04 | <MikeSmith> | saw your ping from my mobile but too tired to feel like typing on my mobile |
| 10:04 | <MikeSmith> | 夏バテ |
| 10:05 | <kochi> | Oh, take care of yourself. |
| 10:05 | <kochi> | Are you on desktop now, then? |
| 10:06 | <MikeSmith> | yeah at home on my PC now, and was just kidding about 夏バテ。I'm fine. Was just way hotter today than yesterday. |
| 10:07 | <kochi> | yeah, we had rain yesterday. |
| 10:08 | <kochi> | I'm taking too long to update the IME API spec, but hopefully I can wrap up most feedbacks soon to get the next working draft. |
| 10:10 | <kochi> | Can you let me know the relationship between DOM L3 events and UI events (d4e)? |
| 10:11 | <kochi> | DOM L3 event is still not the "standard" but we already have the next version? |
| 10:14 | <MikeSmith> | kochi: I recommend you don't pay attention to the version numbers |
| 10:15 | <MikeSmith> | they don't really correspond to anything meaningful |
| 10:15 | <MikeSmith> | so it's really just "DOM Events" and "UI Events" |
| 10:16 | <kochi> | Hmm, if I want to extend CompositionEvent, which standard spec shall I refer to? |
| 10:16 | <kochi> | in IME API spec |
| 10:20 | <MikeSmith> | kochi: if you are adding new attributes or methods, then the "DOM Events" spec |
| 10:20 | <MikeSmith> | I think |
| 10:21 | <Ms2ger> | UI Events? |
| 10:21 | <kochi> | https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/d4e/raw-file/tip/source_respec.htm ? |
| 10:21 | <kochi> | Looks like http://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/ doesn't exist. |
| 10:22 | <MikeSmith> | the only thing that the UI Events spec defines is constructors |
| 10:22 | <MikeSmith> | UI Events has not been published as a WD draft |
| 10:22 | <MikeSmith> | yet |
| 10:23 | <MikeSmith> | hmm, I think you may have to reference both specs, actually |
| 10:23 | <MikeSmith> | if you need to change the constructor |
| 10:23 | <MikeSmith> | which I would imagine you do need to do |
| 10:24 | <kochi> | Hmm |
| 10:24 | <kochi> | http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Events/ |
| 10:25 | <kochi> | in the example code, there is comment on initCompositionEvent() |
| 10:25 | <kochi> | // Originally introduced (and deprecated) in DOM Level 3: |
| 10:25 | <kochi> | void initCompositionEvent(DOMString typeArg, ... |
| 10:25 | <Ms2ger> | Would be nice if there was serious work done on UI events |
| 10:26 | <kochi> | So if I need to add more attributes in CompositionEvent, should I also need to add these attributes as new arguments for initCompositionEvent()? |
| 10:26 | <Ms2ger> | No |
| 10:27 | <kochi> | Or with the new-style constructor, I don't have to care? |
| 10:27 | <kochi> | Ms2ger: ok, then the latter? |
| 10:28 | <Ms2ger> | You need to add it to the *EventInit dictionary |
| 10:28 | <kochi> | yeah, that sounds nice and extensible. |
| 10:30 | <kochi> | thanks MikeSmith and Ms2ger! |
| 10:31 | <kochi> | MikeSmith: btw, I recently went to Kyoto and visited Esrille cafe. |
| 10:31 | <kochi> | Shiki-san didn't mention at that time, but he will close the cafe at the end of this month! |
| 10:40 | <kochi> | https://www.facebook.com/esrillecafe |
| 10:41 | <MikeSmith> | kochi: back now. Was eating somen.. |
| 10:41 | <MikeSmith> | eh? is Shiki closing it just for the summer? |
| 10:41 | <MikeSmith> | or permanently? |
| 10:42 | <kochi> | I don't know what he will do after closing the cafe, but he said he would continue working on his browser. |
| 10:43 | <MikeSmith> | wow, yeah, permanently (just read the facebook page) |
| 10:45 | <MikeSmith> | well, it's too bad they're closing it |
| 10:45 | <kochi> | Some googlers are planning to visit before closing: |
| 10:45 | <kochi> | https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/cc0340efglqpvut2vso5kqm9oo8 |
| 10:45 | <MikeSmith> | ah cool |
| 10:47 | <MikeSmith> | I wonder if maybe his wife is planning on opening up another shop of some kind |
| 10:47 | <MikeSmith> | not a cafe, but something else |
| 10:48 | <kochi> | may be. |
| 10:48 | <kochi> | i'm heading home now... |
| 10:48 | <kochi> | see you! |
| 10:48 | <MikeSmith> | cheers |
| 12:20 | GPHemsley | wonders why the entirety of Dublin Core is not registered as meta extensions. |
| 12:21 | <Ms2ger> | Oh, *that* |
| 12:29 | Ms2ger | kicks tobie |
| 12:35 | GPHemsley | thinks all the fun is going to be in Toronto. |
| 14:58 | <reyre_> | what should webvtt parser do if it encounters non utf8 characters? right now i only see that it should interpret the data as utf8 not that it should check that it is and replace, etc |
| 15:02 | <SimonSapin> | reyre_: webvtt refers to RFC3629 for UTF-8, which apparently leaves this unspecified … I’d recommend decoding per http://encoding.spec.whatwg.org/ , that is decode invalid bytes as U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER |
| 15:03 | <SimonSapin> | annevk: does that sound right? |
| 15:06 | <annevk> | SimonSapin: yeah, why does WebVTT refer to 3629? That sounds like a regression |
| 15:06 | <annevk> | Pretty sure it used to refer to the Encoding Standard by means of referring something in HTML |
| 15:06 | <SimonSapin> | no idea, I’m just reading http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/#the-webvtt-file-format-syntax |
| 15:07 | <Ms2ger> | Probably forked before Hixie_ referenced Encoding |
| 15:07 | <annevk> | reyre_: there's no such thing as a non-utf-8 character btw, it would be a non-utf-8 byte sequence |
| 15:08 | <annevk> | SimonSapin: reyre_: the parser part does refer the correct algorithm, but still mentions 3629... Editor seems confused |
| 15:27 | <reyre> | annevk, SimonSapin: okay so replacing utf8-8-byte sequences with the replace character is probably what we want to do |
| 15:28 | <reyre> | annevk, SimonSapin: thanks :) |
| 15:35 | <annevk> | reyre: if this is for the JavaScript impl, you should just use TextDecoder; it'll do that |
| 15:37 | <reyre> | annevk: where can i find that? |
| 15:37 | <annevk> | reyre: Encoding Standard defines it, Gecko implements it |
| 15:38 | <reyre> | ah okay, i think we might not want that because we'd want other implementations to be able to use it as well, not just gecko |
| 15:39 | <reyre> | annevk: andreas has decided on using some shumway code https://github.com/mozilla/shumway/blob/master/src/avm2/util.js#L448 |
| 15:40 | <annevk> | reyre: all browsers will eventually implement that API |
| 15:40 | <annevk> | reyre: it seems silly to reimplement utf-8 everywhere |
| 15:41 | <reyre> | annevk: if you want to chime in on the discussion it's here https://github.com/andreasgal/vtt.js/issues/43 |
| 16:44 | <dglazkov> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 16:45 | <reyre> | annevk: so do you think using gecko would be better then shumway? |
| 16:45 | <annevk> | I don't understand what that means |
| 16:46 | <reyre> | annevk: so for the utf8 encoding stuff. you said that you thought using gecko's utf8 TextDecoder would be better than using Shumway's version (which i linked) |
| 16:47 | <annevk> | It's not Gecko's. It's the web platform's way of doing text decoding. Shumway could be patched to use that, too. |
| 16:48 | <reyre> | annevk: oh okay. i thought you said that gecko had a particular implementation of it though? |
| 16:49 | <annevk> | reyre: I think I said we had an implementation, meaning you could use it |
| 16:49 | <annevk> | reyre: http://encoding.spec.whatwg.org/#api |
| 16:50 | <reyre> | annevk: okay cool, thanks |
| 17:03 | <Hixie_> | hober: you around? |
| 18:05 | <hober> | Hixie_: yo |
| 18:06 | <hober> | Hixie_: sorry, was in a meeting |
| 18:06 | Hixie_ | wonders what he wanted to ask hober |
| 18:06 | <hober> | heh |
| 18:06 | <Hixie_> | oh, putImageDataHD() |
| 18:06 | <Hixie_> | i've heard rumours that y'all dropped it as soon as you added it, or something |
| 18:06 | <Hixie_> | but i can't find any feedback on the matter |
| 18:06 | <Hixie_> | any chance you can get dino or someone to update the list on what's going on with that? |
| 18:07 | <hober> | yeah, fair enough. i'll bug him to write an email about it |
| 20:55 | <dglazkov> | Hixie_: for <link>, where's the text that specifies what happens when "href" value is changed? |
| 20:56 | <Hixie_> | interesting question |
| 20:56 | <dglazkov> | Hixie_: I went looking, but I couldn't easily find. |
| 20:56 | <dglazkov> | But I did fill out your survey form! :) |
| 20:57 | <Hixie_> | dglazkov: :-) |
| 20:57 | <Hixie_> | dglazkov: looks like changing href doesn't cause a reload, per spec |
| 20:57 | <Hixie_> | dglazkov: do browsers reload? |
| 21:00 | <Hixie_> | http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/2411 suggests they do |
| 21:01 | <Hixie_> | dglazkov: guess it's a spec bug |
| 21:01 | <dglazkov> | yay bugs |
| 21:14 | <gallant> | are there paid jobs in whatwg and w3c? |
| 21:17 | <gsnedders> | The WHATWG has no employees (or, indeed, legal status whatsoever). There are people paid to work on WHATWG-published specifications, however. The W3C has staff for a variety of things, from sysadmins to staff contacts for WGs to membership development, etc. |
| 21:17 | <gsnedders> | gallant: ^^ |
| 21:25 | <dglazkov> | Hixie_: do you want me to repurpose https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22038 or create a new bug? |
| 21:25 | <Hixie_> | either way |
| 21:28 | <annevk_> | hober: you guys keep track of the WHATWG list right? E.g. the Notifications stuff? |
| 21:39 | <annevk> | https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000152914804/f5d064aa7d8d22112c590281a074cdde_bigger.jpeg is amazing |
| 21:40 | <annevk> | https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000152914804/f5d064aa7d8d22112c590281a074cdde.jpeg (somewhat bigger) |
| 21:44 | <Ms2ger> | Is that you? |
| 21:47 | <gallant> | thanks |
| 22:04 | <weinig> | annevk: hober looking as good as I have ever seen in those |
| 22:05 | <annevk> | weinig: he's too cool for us now |
| 22:06 | <annevk> | weinig: although I guess you can do something about that :p |
| 22:06 | <weinig> | annevk: hehe |
| 22:07 | <Hixie_> | does w3c have any git repos, or is it all cvs and hg? |
| 22:07 | <gsnedders> | Hixie_: On GitHub, not self-hosted, AFAIK |
| 22:07 | <Hixie_> | k, thanks |
| 22:34 | <mightypower> | hi people. Officialy the spec of WHATWG is just "HTML" and "HTML 5" is just a buzzwords ? |
| 22:36 | <Hixie_> | "officially" in what sense? |
| 22:36 | <Hixie_> | the WHATWG HTML standard is just called "HTML", if that's what you mean |
| 22:43 | <annevk> | dglazkov: so now you cannot have CORS-cross-origin resources so that part of the spec doesn't make sense anymore |
| 22:43 | <annevk> | dglazkov: you also need to say what happens if fetching failed |
| 22:43 | <dglazkov> | kay |
| 22:44 | <annevk> | I guess it's mostly fine otherwise, although I wonder if it shouldn't use a crossorigin attribute on <link> like most other things we have |
