| 00:03 | <TabAtkins> | The WHATWG spec, which is the one you should be reading, defines the HTML language. |
| 00:04 | <TabAtkins> | galant: It is unversioned. |
| 00:04 | <TabAtkins> | galant: That's as "official" as you're going to get. |
| 00:28 | <zewt> | things browsers need: an un-reload button |
| 00:28 | <zewt> | reload ebay search, go "wait what was that" right as it goes away |
| 00:46 | <galant> | how many webpages arround use HTML ? |
| 00:46 | <galant> | TabAtkins, thanks |
| 00:49 | <galant> | does browsers read any other language other than html? |
| 00:58 | <TabAtkins> | You mean beyond Javascript and CSS? Yes - all browsers also understand SVG, and some understand MathML. |
| 00:59 | <TabAtkins> | And all of them can read arbitrary XML, though they won't do anything useful with it. |
| 01:03 | <galant> | are there any webpages made in xml xstl svg ..? |
| 01:05 | <pdr> | galant, there are some experimental svg-only pages, but no major ones afaik. |
| 01:15 | <galant> | can I make letters to not make new lines if they reach end of the element width? |
| 01:16 | <galant> | pdr, ok thanks |
| 02:20 | <galant> | is there any logic behind colapsing margins or I should learn them as they are ? |
| 02:32 | <Hixie> | galant: Google is aware of at least a trillion unique web pages, but nobody knows the real number, and it depends on what you mean exactly |
| 02:32 | <Hixie> | as for margin collapsing, there's a logic |
| 02:32 | <Hixie> | but it's a bit hard to explain over irc |
| 02:41 | <galant> | Hixie, please, can google webmaster tools and google analytics slow down my webpage if I put code snippets on my servers? |
| 02:42 | <galant> | I need to read more on collapsing margins they confuse me "S |
| 02:42 | <galant> | I meant, around how many webpages are made in languages different than html- i mean about structure like html&css |
| 02:48 | <Hixie> | i don't know much about google webmaster tools and google analytics, but it's unlikely that google's servers will be the bottleneck on your site most of the time |
| 02:48 | <Hixie> | i don't understand your other questions |
| 04:07 | <gallant> | ok thanks Hixie |
| 09:03 | <gallant> | which kind of element are form input elements? |
| 10:13 | <gallant> | what is the keywords attribute max value? or how many keywords I can put in <meta name="keywords" |
| 12:01 | <ThePieMan> | can anybody help me? |
| 12:02 | <ThePieMan> | hello |
| 12:02 | <ThePieMan> | anybody reply please |
| 12:02 | <ThePieMan> | anybody here? |
| 12:03 | <nessy> | say what you need |
| 12:03 | <ThePieMan> | ok i may sound like real noob, but how to make website like this one? http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/os/ can u suggest me something? |
| 12:04 | <ThePieMan> | nessy, can u help me? |
| 12:06 | <ThePieMan> | any reply please |
| 12:23 | <gallant> | mayday mayday |
| 13:28 | GPHemsley | wonders why there is a sudden upsurge in people thinking this is a web development help channel |
| 14:16 | <hendry> | MikeSmith: hsivonen_ http://validator.nu/ is down for me btw |
| 17:03 | <Hixie> | galant: meta name=keywords is a waste of time, generally speaking |
| 19:08 | <GPHemsley> | TabAtkins: Is there (or should there be) a way to create a counter as if an item was insert between two existing items (e.g. 10A between 10 and 11)? |
| 19:09 | <TabAtkins> | There can be, sure. Set up a nested counter scope with a different counter style, and use counters() to render them. |
| 19:10 | <GPHemsley> | interesting |
| 19:11 | <TabAtkins> | For example, assuming a single <ol> where you started with some numbered items, and later amended the list to contain more items but wanted to indicate them specially so as to not disturb the original numbering... |
| 19:11 | <TabAtkins> | Like <ol><li>old<li class=new>new<li>old</ol> being rendered as "1. old 1A. new 2. old" |
| 19:11 | <TabAtkins> | Then... |
| 19:13 | <TabAtkins> | ol { counter-reset: old; } li:not(.new) { counter-reset: new; } li::marker { content: counter(old, decimal) ". "; } li.new::marker { content: counter(old, decimal) counter(new, upper-alpha) ". "; } |
| 19:13 | <TabAtkins> | (Sorry, realized you can't use counters() for this if you want them to be siblings. If the new things were children you'd be fine.) |
| 19:14 | <TabAtkins> | The ABC counter would get reset by each old item, thus restarting the count for its new items. |
| 19:14 | <GPHemsley> | Ah, thanks for the explanation. |
| 19:14 | <GPHemsley> | This was merely a thought experiment. :) |
| 19:15 | <GPHemsley> | Though I'm glad to see that counters are already this powerful. |
| 19:15 | <GPHemsley> | TabAtkins: You do good work! :) |
| 19:15 | <TabAtkins> | I have nothing to do with this - this is old functionality. |
| 19:15 | <TabAtkins> | The interaction counters can have with siblings is indeed powerful. |
| 19:15 | <GPHemsley> | Nevertheless, I stand by my statement. ;) |
| 19:16 | <TabAtkins> | Excepting the use of ::marker (use ::before instead), you can do my example with only CSS 2.1 stuff. |
| 19:16 | <TabAtkins> | But thanks. ^_^ |
| 19:21 | <annevk> | I still think that most of the time numbering is not actually a presentational feature and we should not have put it in CSS. |
| 19:23 | <GPHemsley> | annevk: Where else would you have put it? Having to hand number things would be a pain. |
| 19:23 | <GPHemsley> | TabAtkins: The real question is, does anybody actually support counters? >_> |
| 19:23 | <TabAtkins> | Yes, they do. At least, well enough to pass the 2.1 tests. |
| 19:24 | <annevk> | GPHemsley: I would make something like <ol type=numberic> <li>old <li value=1A> new <li value=2> old work I think |
| 19:25 | <annevk> | Maybe instead of value call it marker, if we're doing this from scratch, etc. |
| 19:26 | <GPHemsley> | Well, Gecko does not appear to be one of them. |
| 19:26 | <GPHemsley> | even with ::before |
| 19:26 | <GPHemsley> | hmm |
| 19:26 | <GPHemsley> | I think that'd put a lot of burden on detecting exactly what "1A" means in that case |
| 19:27 | <GPHemsley> | I think you'd wind up with something that looks like the CSS solution in many respects anyway |
| 19:27 | <GPHemsley> | data:text/html,<!DOCTYPE html><style>ol { counter-reset: old; } li:not(.new) { counter-reset: new; } li::before { content: counter(old, decimal) ". "; } li.new::before { content: counter(old, decimal) counter(new, upper-alpha) ". "; }</style><ol><li>old<li class=new>new<li>old</ol> |
| 19:27 | <GPHemsley> | does not work in Gecko ^^ |
| 19:28 | <GPHemsley> | or, rather, doesn't work correctly |
| 19:29 | <GPHemsley> | or Chrome, apparently |
| 19:29 | <GPHemsley> | indeed, Gecko and Chrome show the same results as each other for both ::marker and ::before |
| 19:30 | <GPHemsley> | (though the results are not identical for the two selectors) |
| 19:31 | <GPHemsley> | the "new" element shows "2. 00." with ::before |
| 19:31 | <GPHemsley> | between "1. 0." and "3. 0." |
| 19:32 | <GPHemsley> | (though all of this is known already, I think) |
| 19:32 | <annevk> | GPHemsley: 1A is just content, it's not really about meaning |
| 19:33 | <annevk> | GPHemsley: I mean, you don't have to be able to interpret it in order to display it |
| 19:33 | <GPHemsley> | annevk: Then how do you know what to do with an <li> after <li value=2>? |
| 19:33 | <annevk> | GPHemsley: you'd prolly have some amount of heuristics, key is mostly that this is content, not style |
| 19:34 | <annevk> | GPHemsley: as e.g. other content will want to refer to "1A" and not have that reference go away if the style sheet is changed |
| 19:34 | <GPHemsley> | annevk: I agree with that, but I don't think there's a good way around it. |
| 19:34 | <GPHemsley> | though you could give each <li> an @id, no? |
| 19:35 | <GPHemsley> | and then use the id value to extract the CSS counter? |
| 19:35 | <GPHemsley> | as a way to reference it, that is |
| 19:35 | <GPHemsley> | or somethink like that |
| 19:35 | <GPHemsley> | s/k/g/ |
| 20:10 | <TabAtkins> | GPHemsley: Sorry, I forgot to put counter-increments into that snippet. |
| 20:10 | <TabAtkins> | Add li { counter-increment: old; } li.new { counter-increment: old new; } |
| 20:11 | <TabAtkins> | And obviously add ol {list-style:none;} to turn off native marker rendering, so your ::before stands alone. |
| 20:13 | <TabAtkins> | Rather, li.new { counter-increment: new; } |
| 20:14 | <TabAtkins> | And (just tested), that works perfectly. |
| 20:14 | <TabAtkins> | data:text/html;charset=utf-8,%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Cstyle%3E%0Aol%20%7B%20counter-reset%3A%20old%3B%20list-style%3Anone%3B%20%7D%0Ali%3Anot(.new)%20%7B%20counter-reset%3A%20new%3B%20counter-increment%3A%20old%3B%20%7D%0Ali.new%20%7B%20counter-increment%3A%20new%3B%20%7D%0Ali%3A%3Abefore%20%7B%20content%3A%20counter(old)%20%22.%20%22%3B%20%7D%0Ali.new%3A% |
| 20:14 | <TabAtkins> | 3Abefore%20%7B%20content%3A%20counter(old)%20counter(new%2C%20upper-alpha)%20%22.%20%22%3B%20%7D%0A%3C%2Fstyle%3E%0A%3Col%3E%3Cli%3Eold%3Cli%20class%3Dnew%3Enew%3Cli%3Eold%3C%2Fol%3E |
| 20:38 | <Yuhong> | I wonder how complex a HTML5-style CSS spec would be. |
| 20:38 | <Yuhong> | Or for that matter a HTML5-style spec for the Office 97-2003 binary file formats. |
| 21:07 | <SimonSapin> | Yuhong: what do you mean, HTML5-style? |
| 21:08 | <Yuhong> | In the style of the WHATWG HTML spec. |
| 21:13 | <matjas> | annevk: thanks! is that `xhr.responseType = 'some-unsupported-type'` behavior specced? It doesn’t seem to be mentioned in http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#the-responsetype-attribute |
| 21:13 | <matjas> | …all browsers seem to do it, so i probably misunderstood the spec |
| 21:14 | <annevk> | matjas: it's because the given value in step 4 can only be one of the strings from the IDL |
| 21:14 | <annevk> | matjas: so if you don't implement one of the values, it wouldn't be in the IDL either in which case the algorithm would not be invoked (iirc) |
| 21:16 | <annevk> | matjas: enums are nice like that |
| 21:17 | <matjas> | so this spec doesn’t need to mention this explicitly, because it’s taken care of by IDL? got it. |
| 21:19 | <annevk> | yeah, if we add a new value "foo" we'd expand the enum, implementations of the old enum however would simply ignore "foo" and not change the value of responseType |
| 21:22 | <zcorpan> | jgraham: Ms2ger: re http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20130727#l-238 - just do formdata.toString = function() { throw new Error(); }; |
| 21:23 | <Ms2ger> | Interesting idea |
| 21:23 | <Ms2ger> | It does rely on overloading being implemented correctly, of course |
| 21:24 | <gsnedders> | I would be relatively surprised if it wasn't. |
| 21:25 | <SimonSapin> | Yuhong: and that is… ? |
| 21:25 | <Ms2ger> | I've seen quite a bit of pre-webidl overloading code in Gecko, and it's universally wrong :) |
| 21:25 | <SimonSapin> | more specifically |
| 21:26 | <gsnedders> | Ms2ger: Oh, it's not /entirely/ wrong. I expect it'll handle this. :P |
| 21:26 | <Ms2ger> | Possibly :) |
| 21:26 | Ms2ger | is not an optimist |
| 21:28 | <zcorpan> | i hear Ms2ger is eager to write some tests :-) |
| 21:28 | <Ms2ger> | Nooooooo |
| 21:29 | <zcorpan> | :-| |
| 21:29 | <Ms2ger> | Doesn't mean that I won't.. ;) |
| 21:29 | Ms2ger | looks at his todo list, sighs |
| 21:36 | <zcorpan> | Ms2ger: if you could also clean my windows, that'd be splendid. you'll get a coffee and a cardamom bun |
| 21:37 | <Ms2ger> | It's very kind of you to offer that, but I don't think I'll take you up on it |
| 21:38 | <Yuhong> | I was referring to <Hixie> it appears that attempting to spec basically what browsers do has resulted in a spec about as complicated as browsers |
| 21:39 | <matjas> | http://mathiasbynens.be/demo/xhr-responsetype xhr.responseType tests, in case anyone cares |
| 21:39 | <matjas> | IE11 supports all but 'json' |
| 21:40 | <Ms2ger> | matjas, there's a </a> on there that shouldn't be |
| 21:40 | <matjas> | Ms2ger: whoops, fixed |
| 21:57 | <zcorpan> | hmmm. can someone confirm that the IE claim is true? https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22800 |
| 22:02 | <zcorpan> | something like http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/2423 (though dunno if ie supports data: there) |
| 22:09 | <matjas> | zcorpan: ie doesn’t support data: there |
| 22:09 | <zcorpan> | suspected so |
| 22:11 | <zcorpan> | https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=264197 people seem confused. nobody seem to have tested whether IE supports .colno, afaict |
| 22:13 | <zcorpan> | i have given review comments about IE's tests saying that they are confusing, but apparently they haven't been fixed |
| 22:35 | <jgraham> | matjas: You should really write tests that W3C can use |