| 02:11 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: yeah, the parts between those two steps are the ones I'm not clear on. I would have thought the entry settings object specified the document containing the iframe, so I'm still unsure at what point the spec says the UA needs to actually evaluate the base URL of the document inside the iframe in order that it ends up affecting the API base URL |
| 02:46 | <crocket> | huh |
| 03:46 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: I added rel=syndication to the validator sources |
| 03:47 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: I suggest that the instructions on http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-rel-values should include a step that says, "If you add a rel value to this page and you want it supported in teh validator, you need to either open a validator bug or e-mail the www-validator⊙wo list to ask that it be added." |
| 03:53 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: alternatively, if somebody were to write code that provided the set of registered rel values on that page in JSON, then I could have the validator just read that |
| 03:53 | <tantek> | MikeSmith - good to know - I'll add the instructions immediately, and work on a JSON API for you |
| 03:54 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: cool |
| 03:54 | <MikeSmith> | yeah it would be really nice to have it in JSON |
| 03:54 | <tantek> | I'd thought originally that by using an HTML <table> of a particular format that it could be incorporated automatically |
| 03:55 | <tantek> | but I appreciate it's easier to consume the info from code as JSON |
| 03:56 | <MikeSmith> | yeah as far as I know we don't yet actually have the scraping code in the validator that would enable reading the <table> contents |
| 03:59 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: btw for the purposes of the validator at least, all we need is the actual value stringa and one boolean to indicate if it's allowed for <a> and one boolean to indicate if it's allowed for <link> |
| 04:00 | <tantek> | MikeSmith - yeah, hence those columns in the table. |
| 04:02 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: yeah, though the table has both "allowed" and "external relation" in addition to "allowed" |
| 04:02 | <tantek> | MikeSmith - could you give me a URL for "open a validator" ? |
| 04:02 | <MikeSmith> | *in addition to "not allowed" |
| 04:02 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: http://bugzilla.validator.nu/ |
| 04:06 | <tantek> | thanks! wiki instructions updated. |
| 04:06 | <tantek> | MikeSmith - is the same true for new meta name values for the WHATWG wiki? |
| 04:07 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: let's see... |
| 04:07 | <tantek> | (re: include a step … ) |
| 04:09 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: http://www.whatwg.org/html#javascript-protocol step 11 is probably the most key step here |
| 04:14 | <tantek> | MikeSmith and on that note - may I request <meta name="mobile-web-app-capable"> as well? http://wiki.whatwg.org/index.php?title=MetaExtensions&diff=9413&oldid=9407 |
| 04:53 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: yeah I will add mobile-web-app-capable today |
| 04:54 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: and the instructions thing is the same for meta name values, yeah |
| 04:54 | <tantek> | MikeSmith awesome and done - added same instructions to meta name registry. |
| 04:56 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: thanks |
| 05:17 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: OK I just now added mobile-web-app-capable and pushed the change to http://validator.w3.org/nu/ |
| 05:30 | <tantek> | MikeSmith - cool - but did rel=syndication not make it into the push? |
| 05:32 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: it should have |
| 05:32 | <MikeSmith> | I pushed it already yesterday, I though |
| 05:32 | <MikeSmith> | *thought |
| 05:32 | <tantek> | hmm - not AFAIK: http://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F |
| 05:33 | <MikeSmith> | hmm yeah |
| 05:33 | <MikeSmith> | lemme check the changeset |
| 05:33 | <tantek> | sad about the cite attribute. not that I can disagree with the warning. |
| 05:34 | <MikeSmith> | yeah I have been discussing that with Hixie in bugzilla |
| 05:34 | <MikeSmith> | maybe we should just drop the warning from the validator |
| 05:34 | <MikeSmith> | I'm not sure that warning is actually helping anybody in practice |
| 05:35 | <MikeSmith> | it's just annoying people who are already aware of the fact that cite is not supported in browsers, but they are knowingly using it anyway. Which is fine |
| 05:37 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: I made a mistake with the rel=syndication change -- I added it to to the meta name code instead of the <a> code. oops |
| 05:37 | <MikeSmith> | will fix it now |
| 05:43 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: fixed and pushed (rel=syndication) |
| 05:44 | <MikeSmith> | maybe I should go ahead right now and remove the code that emits the cite warning |
| 06:38 | <a-ja> | could make same argument as cite for several other errors/warnings though |
| 07:40 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: Hixie: how is what MikeSmith said right if the api base url for step 2 is outer? |
| 07:49 | <MikeSmith> | a-ja: yeah probably so. If there are particular ones you have in mind, please file bugs. The intent of those warnings isn't to be annoying and counter-productive. So if that's what the result is in practice, we should just remove them. The spec doesn't actually require them, so it wouldn't be like dropping any of them would be a conformance problem. |
| 07:50 | <MikeSmith> | OK, I see "the script settings object of the Window object of the active document of the browsing context being navigated." in step 11 |
| 07:52 | <MikeSmith> | so I assume that means in this case browsing context being navigated is the nested browsing context, with the iframe document |
| 07:52 | <MikeSmith> | otherwise the base element of the iframe document would not be relevant, it seems |
| 07:59 | <MikeSmith> | dumb question: evaluatiing frames[0].location does not cause the iframe browsing contect to "be navigated", right? |
| 08:01 | <MikeSmith> | no, clearly it doesn't |
| 08:02 | <MikeSmith> | but clearly location.assign() does |
| 08:04 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: oh i see. so in step 2 the javascript: url itself is resolved against outer. then the script in the javascript: url is created and run, with a new api base url of inner |
| 08:05 | <MikeSmith> | oh |
| 08:09 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: so after the javascript: url itself is resolved against outer, the active document is still the outer document? |
| 08:10 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: active document of what? |
| 08:11 | <MikeSmith> | the document containing the iframe |
| 08:12 | <zcorpan> | active document is a property of a browsing context. the active document of the top-level browsing context is outer and the active document of the iframe's browsing context is inner |
| 08:13 | <zcorpan> | in the javascript: steps, it talks about the active document of the bc being navigated, which is inner |
| 08:13 | <zcorpan> | since the iframe bc is being navigated |
| 08:14 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, that's the part I still don't understand: at what point the iframe bc begins being navigated |
| 08:15 | <MikeSmith> | what exactly causes the iframe bc to be navigated, I mean |
| 08:15 | <zcorpan> | ok |
| 08:15 | MikeSmith | looks back at the javascript: steps |
| 08:15 | <zcorpan> | do you have a link ot the test? |
| 08:16 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, gimme a second |
| 08:16 | <MikeSmith> | http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/navigation/javascript-url/001.html |
| 08:18 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: ok so you're not interested in what happens up to right before the 'load' event fires? |
| 08:19 | <MikeSmith> | I am if it affects the rest of the test in some way I'm missing |
| 08:19 | <MikeSmith> | but I think I already understand that |
| 08:21 | <MikeSmith> | as far as I outlined in my last attempt, at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20131211#l-774 |
| 08:24 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: splitting things out to the url spec made things a bit hard to follow here, but onload="frames[0].location = foo" causes a navigation because it sets location.href http://url.spec.whatwg.org/#dom-url-href which runs http://url.spec.whatwg.org/#pre-update-steps which runs "When the element's URLUtils interface invokes its update steps with the string value, the user agent must run the following steps:" in html |
| 08:24 | <zcorpan> | "element" there seems to be a copy/paste bug |
| 08:25 | <MikeSmith> | ah |
| 08:25 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: which invokes assign(foo) |
| 08:26 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, I understand now |
| 08:26 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 08:26 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: that's why I was asking above, "dumb question: evaluatiing frames[0].location does not cause the iframe browsing contect to "be navigated", right" |
| 08:27 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: ok, i didn't understand that question :-) |
| 08:28 | <zcorpan> | evaluating `frames[0].location` doesn't navigate because it doesn't set, it gets |
| 08:28 | <MikeSmith> | yeah I guess it was equally dumb in that I didn't word it well |
| 08:28 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, I guess I meant assigning, not evaluation |
| 08:28 | <MikeSmith> | *not evaluating |
| 08:28 | <zcorpan> | right |
| 08:29 | <zcorpan> | it wasn't a dumb question :-) |
| 08:32 | <MikeSmith> | OK but you haven't heard the rest of my questions yet, so I still have a chance to exhibit further dumbness :) |
| 08:34 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: like, this question: What does it first cause a navigation to, in this case? |
| 08:34 | <MikeSmith> | I mean the specific frames[0].location = 'javascript:location.assign("test.txt")' case |
| 08:34 | <MikeSmith> | the first navigation is to the "javascript:location.assign("test.txt")" URL? |
| 08:35 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: it causes the javascript: url steps to be run. which navigates to the return value, except if that's `undefined`, in which case it doesn't actually navigate |
| 08:36 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/2689 |
| 08:37 | MikeSmith | takes a look |
| 08:37 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: vs http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/2690 |
| 08:37 | MikeSmith | compares |
| 08:38 | <zcorpan> | the first one could have src=document also if you like |
| 08:39 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: this is step 12 in the javascript: url steps |
| 08:42 | <MikeSmith> | OK |
| 08:52 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: when the UA makes the frames[0].location = 'javascript:location.assign("test.txt")' assignment, the entry settings object changes such that the responsible document it specifies is the inner one? |
| 08:53 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: it doesn't really change but rather you get a new script with a different settings object |
| 08:54 | <zcorpan> | onload="" is one script |
| 08:54 | <zcorpan> | javascript: is another |
| 08:56 | <MikeSmith> | OK, I see that |
| 08:58 | <MikeSmith> | so I guess I should ask, what changes does the API base URL go through |
| 08:59 | <zcorpan> | which one? :-) |
| 09:00 | <zcorpan> | i think the api base urls don't change here |
| 09:01 | <MikeSmith> | ok yeah, lemme ask what happens from the other direction |
| 09:07 | <MikeSmith> | the iframe[0].location.href starts out as http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/navigation/javascript-url/inner-address/inner.html and that document contains a base element with href http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/navigation/javascript-url/inner-base/ so that has an effect on the API base URL of any settings object that has the http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/navigation/javascript-url/inner-address/inner.html document as a responsible documen |
| 09:07 | <MikeSmith> | is that true? |
| 09:08 | <MikeSmith> | or actually ignore the first part about "the iframe[0].location.href starts out as" because it's not relevant to the question |
| 09:09 | <MikeSmith> | revised question: the document http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/navigation/javascript-url/inner-address/inner.html contains a base element with href http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/navigation/javascript-url/inner-base/ so that has an effect on the API base URL of any settings object that has the http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/html/navigation/javascript-url/inner-address/inner.html document as a responsible document |
| 09:31 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: i don't know |
| 09:33 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: the answer is no if you put a <script> above the <base> |
| 09:35 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 09:37 | <zcorpan> | is there a test runner i can use for the purpose of filling in http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/Interop/WebWorkers |
| 09:39 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: Ms2ger's test runner, maybe? |
| 09:40 | MikeSmith | looks for the sources |
| 09:41 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: https://bitbucket.org/ms2ger/test-runner/src |
| 09:41 | <zcorpan> | yep thx |
| 09:42 | <MikeSmith> | it's what I used for http://w3c-test.org/testrunner/2dcontext/ |
| 09:42 | <MikeSmith> | I don't know if you used it before but really the only thing you need to do is create a manifest, if you don't have one already |
| 10:04 | <zcorpan> | i don't. i can't get it to run, either :-| |
| 10:05 | <zcorpan> | i created a manifest by doing find . -name '*.htm*' > MANIFEST |
| 10:07 | <zcorpan> | Ms2ger: ^ |
| 10:08 | <MikeSmith> | yeah that's how I made the manifest for the canvas tests |
| 10:08 | <zcorpan> | maybe it doesn't work on file: |
| 10:09 | Ms2ger | wanders in |
| 10:10 | <Ms2ger> | Do you have a / at the end of the path argument? |
| 10:12 | <zcorpan> | oh now i got it running (enabling file: XHR in opera) |
| 10:12 | <zcorpan> | except /resources/ doesn't exist |
| 10:24 | <Ms2ger> | Ah |
| 10:28 | <zcorpan> | ok now it's running. i tried to create symlinks and run on my local server but it didn't work for some reason so i copied the directory to the root instead :-) |
| 10:30 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: You could have run it on the python branch |
| 10:46 | <odinho> | Yea. -- Also, I think we had a copy of ms2gers test-runner in wpt? I wanted that at least, because it's the best way to run tests. I always had it locally. |
| 10:47 | <Ms2ger> | I don't think we ever added one |
| 10:47 | <Ms2ger> | I know the csp guys use a fork |
| 10:48 | <Ms2ger> | And that their tests rather confuse it |
| 10:57 | <jgraham> | For small values of "best" |
| 10:58 | <jgraham> | Could perhaps rewrite it to use the auto-generated json manifest format from https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/440 |
| 10:58 | <jgraham> | But really you want an external test runner |
| 10:59 | <jgraham> | A simple webdriver-based one isn't too hard, but a fully-featured one is more challenging |
| 10:59 | <Ms2ger> | For running in automation, sure |
| 11:00 | <Ms2ger> | For manually running across browsers, I'm not convinced that's worth it |
| 11:00 | <jgraham> | Maybe not |
| 11:00 | <jgraham> | Anyway your one could still be improved by not using iframes and by using the autogenerated manifest |
| 11:06 | <Ms2ger> | jgraham, if/when that lands, sure :) |
| 11:06 | <annevk> | "We were not able to approve your request for this custom URL: google.com/+annevk"; |
| 11:06 | <annevk> | well that is sad |
| 11:07 | <odinho> | odinho was also too short or something. Needed a full fugly name. |
| 11:08 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger: Well it has to land :) |
| 11:08 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger: You could help make this happen ;) |
| 11:08 | <Ms2ger> | :) |
| 11:08 | Ms2ger | runs |
| 11:09 | <annevk> | the one Google is proposing is way longer than http://annevankesteren.nl/+ too |
| 11:37 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: why not annevk.nl/+ |
| 11:39 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: that'd require setting up annevk.nl as an actual domain rather than generic redirect |
| 11:39 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: but yeah... |
| 11:44 | <zcorpan> | jgraham: but they are modified so it's not obvious that the results can be compared |
| 11:45 | <zcorpan> | anne.vk |
| 11:46 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: Oh, did they change? I had forgotten that then. What happened? |
| 11:47 | <zcorpan> | jgraham: just a redirect script i think |
| 11:47 | <jgraham> | Oh, do you just mean on my branch> |
| 11:48 | <jgraham> | I thought you meant on master |
| 11:49 | <zcorpan> | i meant your branch yeah |
| 11:49 | <jgraham> | I don't think that's a problem. All those changes are reviewed even |
| 12:02 | <hsivonen> | annevk: if we get telemetry for IBM866, should be get telemetry for ISO-8859-5, too, for reference? |
| 12:02 | <annevk> | hsivonen: yeah, and maybe koi8-* |
| 12:02 | <hsivonen> | annevk: if ISO-8859-5 had no usage, wouldn't we still keep that one, though, to keep support for all of ISO-8859-*? |
| 12:03 | <annevk> | hsivonen: we don't really support all iso-8859-* (some map to windows-*), but I suspect we wouldn't remove it, but maybe from the override menu |
| 12:04 | <hsivonen> | annevk: well, let's say the labers for ISO-8859-* are supported for the whole series |
| 12:04 | <hsivonen> | labels |
| 12:05 | <annevk> | fair |
| 12:08 | <hsivonen> | annevk: is there an explanation of what the decoding difference between gbk and gb18030 means in practical terms? I.e. what characters are encoded by the sequences that mean something different in gbk than they mean in gb18030? |
| 12:10 | <annevk> | hsivonen: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16862 and https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16697 have details |
| 12:10 | <hsivonen> | was EUC-JP the platform encoding on Japanese localizations of Linux, Solaris, etc. at some point? |
| 12:10 | <hsivonen> | that is, why would anyone use EUC-JP when legacy Windows and Mac both used Shift_JIS? |
| 12:10 | <hsivonen> | annevk: thanks |
| 12:13 | <annevk> | hsivonen: per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Unix_Code#EUC-JP it was used by Unix operation systems |
| 12:13 | <hsivonen> | does Øistein work for Opera or is he just otherwise interested in encodigs? |
| 12:13 | <hsivonen> | annevk: ok |
| 12:13 | <annevk> | operating* |
| 12:13 | <annevk> | hsivonen: otherwise interested |
| 12:18 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: yeah I think EUC-JP was the default on *nix systems for a long time, long before Linux |
| 12:18 | <MikeSmith> | in Japan |
| 12:21 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: ok |
| 12:21 | <MikeSmith> | not that I mean Linux changed it when it came along |
| 12:23 | <hsivonen> | annevk: does GB18030 in the Encoding Standard match GB18030 as defined as a Chinese standard? |
| 12:24 | <hsivonen> | annevk: after reading those bugs, my understanding of the gbk vs. GB18030 issue has not improved :-( |
| 12:25 | <hsivonen> | mainly wondering if I should really implement the algorithms from the Encoding Standard myself for Validator.nu or just use the JDK decoders or the ICU4J decoders for the multibyte encodings |
| 12:30 | <ondras> | Domenic_: you available? |
| 12:47 | <zcorpan> | isn't Link: dead yet? |
| 12:56 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: this thread is discussing a 'metadatachange' event or some such for media elements http://www.w3.org/mid/CALiegfkYnk8yY-_V-0j40uxwAimab1vucPVU4o6H_Fuj8OFpUg⊙mgc |
| 13:15 | <annevk> | hsivonen: yeah sorry, the Encoding Standard is wrong I think |
| 13:15 | <annevk> | hsivonen: I just haven't figured out the right fix yet |
| 13:17 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: I can set up the test runner for workers on w3c-test.org |
| 13:17 | <MikeSmith> | and then everybody can run the tests from there |
| 13:17 | <annevk> | hsivonen: and I haven't taken the time because going through those algorithms again feels somewhat daunting :/ |
| 13:17 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: cool |
| 13:18 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: can you tar up what you made for your local tests? |
| 13:18 | <MikeSmith> | or if that's a pain I'll just do it from scratch |
| 13:19 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: not much i did, i just changed the button in index.html |
| 13:19 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 13:20 | <MikeSmith> | so I'll just do the same. I don't think it should take long |
| 13:20 | <MikeSmith> | I'll send a reply to Art when I got it set up |
| 13:22 | <Ms2ger> | MikeSmith, on another note, I think we might have used github issues instead of bugzilla for test issues |
| 13:22 | <Ms2ger> | Not sure what's best |
| 13:25 | <MikeSmith> | well github issues suck worse than bugzilla |
| 13:26 | <MikeSmith> | but github issues seem to be in vogue |
| 13:26 | <MikeSmith> | this year |
| 13:26 | <MikeSmith> | oh but what test issues to you mean? |
| 13:29 | <Ms2ger> | Apparently I meant zcorpan, not you :) |
| 13:29 | <zcorpan> | Ms2ger: oh |
| 13:31 | <MikeSmith> | oh about the workers test bug that zcorpan raised I guess |
| 13:31 | <Ms2ger> | Yeah |
| 13:32 | <Ms2ger> | So, gittites |
| 13:32 | <Ms2ger> | Is there a way to rename a branch? |
| 13:32 | <jgraham> | git branch -m |
| 13:33 | <jgraham> | i.e. git branch -m oldname newname |
| 13:33 | <Ms2ger> | Ta |
| 13:34 | <jgraham> | Hmm, so thunderbird/lightning has decided that the dismiss button for appointment reminders is going to do precisely nothing |
| 13:34 | <jgraham> | Not close the window, not stop reminding me about appointments that have already happened |
| 13:34 | <jgraham> | This is quite annoying |
| 13:44 | <zcorpan> | The dismiss button does what it says on the tin: it dismisses your click |
| 14:05 | <zcorpan> | how do i test resolving urls in a cache manifest without going insane? |
| 14:13 | <zcorpan> | my plan is to create an iframe with a new unique url (maybe a data: url) that points to a cache manifest (maybe a data: url) which includes a url that stores a stash on the server, and on iframe.onload do an xhr to read the stash |
| 14:20 | <annevk> | JakeA: hey, do you know what the deal is with a spec for service workers? |
| 14:21 | <zcorpan> | jgraham: did we have a convention for helper files? under support/ or so? |
| 14:22 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: No convention for helper files, although a lot of testsuites use resources/ |
| 14:22 | <jgraham> | i.e. /suite/resources |
| 14:22 | <zcorpan> | ok |
| 14:23 | <JakeA> | annevk: I've booked a week in January to go through the issue list with Alex, I think the spec's blocked on the issues |
| 14:24 | <jgraham> | ?! |
| 14:24 | <JakeA> | annevk: Although, we would start working through it in the new year if you've got time? |
| 14:25 | <annevk> | JakeA: new year works for me |
| 14:25 | <annevk> | JakeA: I can maybe work on setting up an initial spec, I don't really want to own it indefinitely |
| 14:25 | <JakeA> | I get back from MTV in Feb. I'll make sure "Hide in mozilla offices" is one of my quarterly goals |
| 14:26 | <annevk> | heh |
| 14:26 | <JakeA> | annevk: It can stay in the repo, so it stays, well, Alex's |
| 14:26 | <annevk> | I'm away mid-Feb to mid-March, but there's others you can hide with |
| 14:27 | <JakeA> | Cool. I haven't written a WHATWG/W3 spec before, so may need some hand-holding |
| 14:27 | <MikeSmith> | Ms2ger: about the testrunner, once the tests finish running in the browser and the JSON shows up at the end, is there some tool that lets me take the JSON for each UA and generate an HTML test report from it? |
| 14:27 | <Ms2ger> | I may have something... |
| 14:28 | <MikeSmith> | Ms2ger: I thought I remembered plh telling me there was some such |
| 14:28 | Ms2ger | wonders where that ended up |
| 14:29 | <Ms2ger> | I've got something based on the XML output |
| 14:29 | <MikeSmith> | that's fine too |
| 14:31 | <jgraham> | FWIW I am not going to produce XML output :p |
| 14:31 | <Ms2ger> | I'll email it to you |
| 14:31 | <Ms2ger> | jgraham, I didn't expect that you would :) |
| 14:36 | <MikeSmith> | Ms2ger: thanks |
| 14:36 | <Ms2ger> | "Sending of message failed." |
| 14:36 | Ms2ger | kicks |
| 14:37 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: does the current json output from Ms2ger testrunner not already basically follow the format you describe in your reply to Art? |
| 14:37 | <Ms2ger> | Third time's the charm |
| 14:39 | <MikeSmith> | anyway for now http://www.w3c-test.org/testrunner/workers/ |
| 14:42 | <jgraham> | MikeSmith: No idea. I just made it up |
| 14:42 | <jgraham> | It wasn't exactly difficult |
| 14:43 | <Ms2ger> | I'm pretty sure I didn't put a lot of thought in my format :) |
| 15:02 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: thanks |
| 15:03 | <MikeSmith> | seems I probably need to tweek the manifest still |
| 15:03 | <MikeSmith> | but for now I need to take a break |
| 15:04 | <MikeSmith> | in the mean time, I'll contemplate what "But like most (all?) WHATWG products, it is a reference implementation, not a standard." is supposed to mean |
| 15:04 | <MikeSmith> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2013Dec/0004.html |
| 15:25 | <SimonSapin> | annevk: If it makes the spec harder to understand, I think you should not define the URL parser as a single pass |
| 15:26 | <SimonSapin> | leave it to implementations to worry about performance |
| 15:29 | <annevk> | having a spec drastically different from implementations usually doesn't lead to good results |
| 15:29 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger: Where is your test runner? I am just going to fix it to work the way I want |
| 15:29 | <Ms2ger> | https://bitbucket.org/ms2ger/test-runner |
| 15:30 | <jgraham> | Thanks |
| 15:30 | <toss> | I have two tables with same number of rows and same width="1100" but the one has one more row than the other, they have different width of some cells which makes me problems, how can I solve this? |
| 15:30 | <toss> | is this a html or css issue? |
| 15:31 | <jgraham> | toss: Try #html I think |
| 15:31 | <SimonSapin> | annevk: having a spec that’s hard to understand may not lead to good results either… |
| 15:31 | <annevk> | "hard" |
| 15:32 | <toss> | ok |
| 15:32 | <toss> | thanks |
| 15:36 | <annevk> | zcorpan: is there no test for postMessage(1, "/") |
| 15:36 | <annevk> | zcorpan: that throws in Gecko... |
| 16:32 | <tantek> | MikeSmith - I think the cite warning is reasonable. I'd leave it in. Any use of attributes for content (or URLs) which do not have an effect in browsers is worth warning authors about, because such uses usually result in dead or misleading content over time. |
| 16:33 | <tantek> | It's good to warn authors who may not be aware of that. And those us that still do attempt to use things like the cite attribute are not surprised by the warnings either. |
| 16:35 | <annevk> | "Refactoring SharedWorkers out of Web Workers W3C spec" negative progress ftw |
| 16:54 | <annevk> | Still looking for a name that means the same as what latin1 used to mean |
| 16:55 | <annevk> | byte-identity |
| 16:55 | <annevk> | utf-256 |
| 16:55 | <annevk> | thefirst256 |
| 16:55 | <annevk> | 8bit |
| 16:55 | <annevk> | whatwg-byte |
| 16:55 | <SimonSapin> | real ISO-8859-1 |
| 16:56 | <annevk> | mkay, we could consider real-latin1 |
| 16:56 | <annevk> | but I'd like to reserve silly stuff like that for Microsoft |
| 16:57 | <annevk> | hsivonen: ^^ |
| 16:59 | <annevk> | to be clear, this encoding would be for API and use by standards only, it would not work in <meta charset=...> and such |
| 17:00 | <jgraham> | latin0 |
| 17:02 | <annevk> | 1st256cps |
| 17:12 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: ok |
| 17:13 | <toss> | can I somehow gain total control over table cells width? |
| 17:13 | <toss> | to make them to not get automatic width? |
| 17:13 | <toss> | how can I control their width |
| 17:14 | <miketaylr> | table-layout: fixed? |
| 17:29 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: not sure if this is relevant or not, but notice that the settings object's API base URL is actually conceptually a callback, whose return value can change over time |
| 17:30 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: oh man |
| 17:31 | <MikeSmith> | could we possibly find a way to make the description of all this more complicated? |
| 17:31 | <Hixie> | i've tried, but it's as complicated as i can make it, i'm afraid |
| 17:31 | <Hixie> | :-P |
| 17:31 | <MikeSmith> | :-) |
| 17:32 | <Hixie> | seriously though, this stuff is just wacked |
| 17:32 | <Hixie> | it's simpler now than it used to be, at least |
| 17:33 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, just giving you a hard time. I realize the spec is documenting what actually happens |
| 17:33 | <MikeSmith> | or what's supposed to actually happen |
| 17:33 | <MikeSmith> | speaking of which, at this point, I'm trying to see it as, which step in the spec is Firefox not performing correctly that Chrome is? |
| 17:33 | <MikeSmith> | step or steps |
| 17:35 | <MikeSmith> | oh it seems like bz might have already identified that |
| 17:35 | <MikeSmith> | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=949413 |
| 17:36 | <MikeSmith> | maybe |
| 17:36 | <MikeSmith> | "The javascript: bit is a total red herring in this case; it's a pure Location issue." |
| 17:36 | MikeSmith | chews on that |
| 17:40 | <SimonSapin> | annevk: http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2013/12/9/stop-being-clever/ |
| 17:41 | Ms2ger | read "MikeSmith chews on hat" |
| 17:41 | <Ms2ger> | "I think it will go through the same phase of emancipation as PHP where people from other languages and environments are forced to work with it and slowly introduce sanity into the community." |
| 17:41 | <Ms2ger> | Oh good |
| 17:42 | <Ms2ger> | Then we'll finally get monads |
| 17:42 | <Domenic_> | hahahaha |
| 17:54 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger: Like 98% of the web is "writing monads using javascript" tutorials already |
| 17:56 | <jgraham> | SimonSapin: Interesting article |
| 17:56 | <annevk> | people moaning about gb18030 in 2012-05 http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=11837 scary stuff |
| 18:07 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: the step is the one that says "When it comes time to set the document's address in the navigation algorithm, use address as the override URL." |
| 18:08 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: ok |
| 18:13 | <Hixie> | the main flaw with http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2013/12/9/stop-being-clever/ is that it's generalising. There's no single "JavaScript community". JavaScript probably has more programmers than any other language, and the barrier to entry is lower than any other language. So naturally you'll have a huge variety of competence levels. |
| 18:13 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: though of course that step depends on lots of earlier steps :-) |
| 18:14 | <Hixie> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2013Dec/0004.html is fascinating. i assume it's an attempt to make it seem like there's no WHATWG vs IETF conflict by redefining terms? |
| 18:22 | <jgraham> | Hixie: One might assume that the people writing e.g. Angular are some of the better javascript programmers |
| 18:23 | <jgraham> | And that is a specific example he cites |
| 18:23 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: Should the spec give a list of encodings that heuristics should be used for? |
| 18:24 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: the mesdage from John Cowan seems kind of like an attempt to stake out a particular extreme position |
| 18:25 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: which seems to be kind of a pattern with him in such discussions |
| 18:26 | <MikeSmith> | basically only providing entertainment value |
| 18:27 | <Hixie> | jgraham: i thought he was mostly complaining about some time zone library, and that he liked angular |
| 18:28 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: 301 annevk |
| 18:28 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: ah (not familiar with his work, didn't recognise the name) |
| 18:28 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: But you currently define "do something with heuristics" in the HTML spec! :P |
| 18:29 | <annevk> | gsnedders: probably not, hsivonen and I are figuring out what exactly we want to do there |
| 18:29 | <annevk> | gsnedders: might end up with something liimited for Japanese |
| 18:29 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: i said 301! 301! not 303 or 307! :-P |
| 18:29 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: more seriously though if there was a set of defined heuristics that browsers would implement, i'd refer to them |
| 18:29 | <gsnedders> | annevk: I mean, I presume everyone at least sniffs for UTF-8? |
| 18:29 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: i've no intention of doing that myself though |
| 18:30 | <jgraham> | Hixie: There are lots of examples of things he dislikes about Angular at the end that seem to be more at the "architecture" level than the "bad algorithm" level |
| 18:30 | <jgraham> | Which he claims are encouraged by js |
| 18:30 | <Hixie> | ah |
| 18:31 | <Hixie> | well js definitely doesn't discourage certain patterns that should probably be discouraged, that's for sure |
| 18:31 | <Hixie> | it's not as bad as perl for that, but it's in the same vein |
| 18:31 | <gsnedders> | annevk: Can I like, not have uni, and just get to play with interesting web platform stuff? |
| 18:31 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: yes |
| 18:31 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: (you may find it more financially sound to first finish uni though) |
| 18:31 | <annevk> | gsnedders: utf-8 sniffing is not universal at all |
| 18:31 | <gsnedders> | But I have six months left! It seems stupid to leave not! :) |
| 18:31 | <gsnedders> | *now |
| 18:32 | <annevk> | gsnedders: sniffings efforts are rather limited |
| 18:32 | <annevk> | which is good |
| 18:32 | <gsnedders> | Then should the note informatively recommending UTF-8 be gone from the spec? |
| 18:32 | <gsnedders> | s/UTF-8/UTF-8 sniffing/ |
| 18:33 | <Hixie> | down with utf-8! |
| 18:38 | <annevk> | gsnedders: where is the utf-8 bit? |
| 18:38 | <annevk> | gsnedders: I suspect this will be cleaned up once we shipped relevant changes to Firefox for a bit longer |
| 18:38 | <annevk> | gsnedders: we still have sniffing there but are planning on scoping it down |
| 18:41 | <gsnedders> | annevk: in HTML, under detecting input stream encoding |
| 18:41 | <gsnedders> | "Note: The UTF-8 encoding has a highly detectable bit pattern. Documents that contain bytes with values greater than 0x7F which match the UTF-8 pattern are very likely to be UTF-8, while documents with byte sequences that do not match it are very likely not. User-agents are therefore encouraged to search for this common encoding. [PPUTF8] [UTF8DET]" |
| 18:41 | <annevk> | ah right |
| 18:41 | <annevk> | yeah, that will need to change |
| 19:07 | <astearns> | Hixie: MikeSmith: I read Cowan's message as expressing a dislike of explicit algorithms in specs |
| 19:09 | <astearns> | as in "that's not a spec, that's a reference implementation in pseudocode" |
| 19:18 | <Ms2ger> | As in "I don't want specs to actually define edge cases"? |
| 19:21 | <astearns> | it seems like a weird position to take, but perhaps I'm misinterpreting |
| 19:25 | <zcorpan> | annevk: you mean window.postMessage? |
| 19:26 | <zcorpan> | annevk: http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master/webmessaging/without-ports/004.html |
| 19:27 | <Ms2ger> | zcorpan, so are you planning to also fix the workers tests? :) |
| 19:28 | <zcorpan> | Ms2ger: not right now at least |
| 19:28 | <zcorpan> | the workers tests need to be reviewed |
| 19:29 | <zcorpan> | i thought i had reviewed the tests from microsoft but i guess they didn't address my comments |
| 19:29 | <Hixie> | astearns: yeah |
| 19:31 | <zcorpan> | any news on MessageChannel in gecko? |
| 19:32 | <Ms2ger> | Not that I remember |
| 19:34 | <Domenic_> | it's implemented i think |
| 19:34 | <Domenic_> | but preffed off |
| 19:35 | <Ms2ger> | zcorpan, <bz> Seems to be behind a pref for now |
| 19:35 | <zcorpan> | ok. why? is there a bug i can read? |
| 19:36 | <Ms2ger> | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=677638 |
| 19:36 | <Ms2ger> | <bz> there's some loose ends wrt workers and whatnot; I'm sure baku can tell you the exact status. |
| 19:38 | <baku> | Ms2ger, about messagePort and MessageChannel in ff, the current state is that they are implemented just for the main-thread. No workers yet |
| 19:39 | <baku> | I have a couple of patches but it's unclear when these will be ready to be reviewed and land. |
| 19:39 | <baku> | Ms2ger, everything is behind pref and disabled by default. is this what you want to know? :) |
| 19:39 | <Ms2ger> | zcorpan, ^ |
| 19:40 | <zcorpan> | baku: thanks |
| 19:40 | <baku> | zcorpan, welcome |
| 19:43 | <zcorpan> | it seems like a good idea to keep it preffed off until it works properly with workers, so that feature-checking is reliable |
| 19:44 | <zcorpan> | baku: i'm not sure if you're aware of it but there are tests at http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master/webmessaging/ |
| 19:46 | <baku> | zcorpan, no. I didn't know. but great! I will use them! |
| 19:47 | <zcorpan> | and a few under http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master/workers/ |
| 19:48 | <zcorpan> | baku: clone https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/ and grep for 'MessageChannel' :-) |
| 19:49 | <zcorpan> | baku: or ask jgraham about web-platform-tests in gecko |
| 19:50 | <baku> | zcorpan, ok, thanks for these URLs |
| 19:50 | <zcorpan> | np |
| 19:50 | <Ms2ger> | Or me if you want them now :) |
| 19:51 | <baku> | Ms2ger, hehe ok :) |
| 19:51 | <ondras> | Domenic_: do you happen to be available? |
| 19:51 | <Domenic_> | ondras: sure |
| 19:52 | <ondras> | Domenic_: one question re. promises, perhaps a noobish one |
| 19:52 | <ondras> | Domenic_: suppose I have this setup: promise.then(f1, f2) |
| 19:53 | <ondras> | Domenic_: is there some recommended way to handle the situation when f1 fails with an exception? |
| 19:53 | <Domenic_> | promise.then(f1, f2).catch(f3) |
| 19:53 | <ondras> | Domenic_: this exception is auto-caught and the promise returned by .then gets rejected, ofc |
| 19:53 | <ondras> | Domenic_: .catch is .then(null, f3), right? |
| 19:53 | <Domenic_> | yeah |
| 19:53 | <Domenic_> | if you want the exception in f1 to go to f2, then promise.then(f1).catch(f2) would be better |
| 19:53 | <ondras> | Domenic_: I was thinking about some "auto" solution, similar to what happens in non-async scenarios (exception logged in browser's console) |
| 19:54 | <Domenic_> | oh, well, all browser promise implementations should be logging unhandled exceptions to the console |
| 19:54 | <gsnedders> | Ms2ger: Disliking specs using psuedo-code isn't the same as disliking spec that define behaviour for all inputs |
| 19:54 | <ondras> | Domenic_: I just want to *know* that something has failed |
| 19:54 | <Domenic_> | the problem is that unhandled exceptions can become handled later |
| 19:54 | <ondras> | Domenic_: am I able to achieve this in my own promise impl? I guess not? |
| 19:54 | <ondras> | Domenic_: precisely! |
| 19:54 | <Domenic_> | ondras: well, the problem is there is no "console.unlog," so any solution in user-space will be approximate |
| 19:54 | <Ms2ger> | gsnedders, but specs that don't use pseudo code don't tend to define behaviour for all inputs |
| 19:55 | <Domenic_> | Bluebird logs "possibly unhandled error" if it isn't handled after one tick, so that gives false positives |
| 19:55 | <Ms2ger> | gsnedders, [doesn't mean that that's always the case; based on experience with web specs; ymmv] |
| 19:55 | <gsnedders> | Ms2ger: "tend" is the important word there. :) |
| 19:55 | <Domenic_> | Q tries to maintain a live array of unhandled rejections, but it's not clear to me which browsers support logging live arrays |
| 19:56 | <gsnedders> | Ms2ger: I'd rather not have everything done with psuedocode, but I would like everything to be defined. |
| 19:56 | <ondras> | Domenic_: well it is probably better than nothing. just that even if I responsibly handle all promises with both fulfill AND reject callbacks, the development process is tedious when the fulfillment callback throws and it does not get reported anywhere :-( |
| 19:56 | <Domenic_> | agreed :( |
| 19:56 | <werle> | annevk: hey you there? |
| 19:56 | <Ms2ger> | Hmm |
| 19:56 | <Ms2ger> | Is there a way to grep in gzipped text files without extracting? |
| 19:56 | Ms2ger | is lazy |
| 19:56 | <ondras> | zcat ? |
| 19:57 | <ondras> | Ms2ger: ^ |
| 19:57 | <gsnedders> | Ms2ger: No, how else could you grep over it? :P |
| 19:57 | <gsnedders> | Ms2ger: (Oh, sorry, am I being pedantic) |
| 19:57 | <ondras> | Domenic_: the .catch is standardized anywhere, or just your pseudocode shortcut? |
| 19:57 | <Domenic_> | ondras: catch is part of ES6 promises |
| 19:57 | <ondras> | ah |
| 19:58 | <ondras> | I noticed that the whatwg dom promises page is rather brief |
| 19:58 | <ondras> | does this mean that ES6 promises are going to be done instead? |
| 19:58 | <Domenic_> | ondras: https://github.com/domenic/promises-unwrapping#promiseprototypecatch--onrejected- |
| 19:58 | <Domenic_> | yes, indeed. |
| 19:59 | <ondras> | Domenic_: okay, thanks for consultations and your time! I will probably stick with the falsy-positive approach "console.log after some timeout", sounds most feasible to me |
| 19:59 | <Ms2ger> | ondras, ta |
| 19:59 | <Domenic_> | ondras: sounds good :) |
| 19:59 | <Domenic_> | if only we had console.unlog... |
| 20:00 | <ondras> | :> |
| 20:00 | <ondras> | well the console object is actually wrapped with my own impl |
| 20:00 | <ondras> | in order to hide those calls in production |
| 20:00 | <ondras> | so I *can* have unlog, somewhat. |
| 20:01 | <Domenic_> | hmmm |
| 20:09 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: is https://github.com/inikulin/parse5/commit/6289e2231df9e3faf089f6112ef07d5ce840e2fc a spec bug you're aware of? i see http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7870&to=7871 but that was earlier and seems different |
| 20:12 | <zcorpan> | or maybe it's the same issue |
| 20:12 | <Ms2ger> | Oh, and: zgrep |
| 20:17 | <Ms2ger> | Funny things I learned about == today: |
| 20:17 | <Ms2ger> | * 0 == false |
| 20:17 | <Ms2ger> | * 1 == true |
| 20:17 | <Ms2ger> | * "" == 0 |
| 20:17 | <Ms2ger> | * ["a"] == "a" |
| 20:17 | <Ms2ger> | * you should never ever ever use == |
| 20:18 | <Ms2ger> | (Actually, I knew the last one) |
| 20:33 | <ondras> | == is okay, as long as you know what data types you compare |
| 20:34 | <ondras> | for instance, `if typeof(x) === "string"` is completely fine with == |
| 20:39 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: i don't know |
| 20:40 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: that code doesn't look to map closely enough to the spec for me to understand how it maps |
| 21:04 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: did you reply on public-webrtc about the resize event? otherwise i can give them a heads-up |
| 21:05 | <Hixie> | i didn't. if you are happy to let them know, please do! |
| 21:05 | <Hixie> | thanks! |
| 21:06 | <Hixie> | btw if anyone is bored and would like to do me a favour, i need to make a list of all the events mentioned in the html spec (by their xref name, so event-resize and event-media-resize are different), so that i can make a table non-normatively defining all the events that still lack definitions |
| 21:07 | <Hixie> | might be as simple as grepping through the source file for "event-.+" and then massaging the data, now that i think of it |
| 21:08 | <zcorpan> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webrtc/2013Dec/0043.html |
| 21:16 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: thanks |
| 21:17 | <Hixie> | (https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23530 is the bug for that event thing btw) |
| 21:35 | <zcorpan> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webrtc/2013Dec/0045.html - quickly implement this in gecko too! go go go! |
| 21:36 | zcorpan | now goes to sleep and will expect some patches in the morning, after lucia at day care |
| 21:38 | <Hixie> | record for fastest turnaround is about 24 hours, i think |
| 21:38 | <Hixie> | that was for some canvas features |
| 22:59 | <bholley> | Hixie: ping |
| 23:00 | <Hixie> | yo |
| 23:00 | <bholley> | Hixie: want to talk about location sync for a little bit? |
| 23:00 | bholley | is finding himself getting confused with all this context switching |
| 23:00 | <Hixie> | sure |
| 23:01 | <Hixie> | (i have a soft out in 60 minutes) |
| 23:01 | <bholley> | Hixie: we could also see if Adam wants to get coffee or something next week |
| 23:01 | <Hixie> | (hard out in 90) |
| 23:01 | <Hixie> | yeah, that might be best |
| 23:01 | <Hixie> | happy to host lunch at the goog or whatever if that helps |
| 23:01 | <Hixie> | i can find us a whiteboard |
| 23:01 | <bholley> | Hixie: I assume Travis is in Seattle? |
| 23:02 | <bholley> | Hixie: I'd really love to hear from him |
| 23:02 | <Hixie> | no idea |
| 23:03 | <bholley> | Hixie: alright, let's see where we can get with this in 30 minutes |
| 23:04 | <bholley> | Hixie: So. The big problem with the grand Alien Object compromise that I'm thinking about right now is the stuff related to the functions we pull off the object |
| 23:05 | <bholley> | in particular, if we were to do this in Gecko today, two same-origin observers would pull different function identities off of a cross-origin Location |
| 23:06 | <bholley> | I could brainstorm ways to fix that |
| 23:09 | <Hixie> | isn't the easiest way to fix it to just prevent access to all the things like prototypes and so on? and fake it in the ==/=== operators or something? |
| 23:09 | <bholley> | Hixie: I think we removed all ability to fake === |
| 23:10 | <bholley> | Hixie: which is ok. I could fix it with membranes I think |
| 23:10 | <bholley> | Hixie: but if we go that route, it seems like we should do something similar with Window, right? |
| 23:11 | <Hixie> | i would certainly love for Window and Location to have similar logic, for the spec's sake if not yours :-) |
| 23:11 | <bholley> | Hixie: well, that's most of where I'd be coming from on that as well |
| 23:12 | <bholley> | Hixie: I'm guessing adam has more flexibility with Window than he does with Location |
| 23:12 | <bholley> | because it's already magical |
| 23:12 | <Hixie> | look, i'm basically open to anything at all at this point, so long as (a) it's secure and ideally (b) it doesn't result in weird identity issues where depending on how you look at an object, you get different results. |
| 23:13 | <Hixie> | and obviously if (b) is a non-starter, then i guess (a) is the only real requirements |
| 23:13 | <Hixie> | though i really do think authors will get themselves into very confused states if we don't do (b) |
| 23:13 | <bholley> | yeah |
| 23:15 | <bholley> | Hixie: yeah ok. Maybe we should do lunch. How about tuesday? |
| 23:15 | <Hixie> | tuesday 17th lgtm |
| 23:15 | <bholley> | Hixie: who is the counterpart with WebKit these days? |
| 23:15 | <bholley> | Hixie: or will adam know enough about WebKit to speak for them? |
| 23:16 | <Hixie> | he probably will, but it'd be nice to get someone else there |
| 23:16 | <Hixie> | hober: ping |
| 23:16 | <bholley> | abarth: ping |
| 23:16 | <abarth> | bholley: hi |
| 23:17 | <bholley> | abarth: how about lunch next week with me and Hixie? |
| 23:17 | <Hixie> | to talk about Location/Window, primarily |
| 23:17 | <abarth> | sure |
| 23:17 | <bholley> | abarth: tuesday work? |
| 23:18 | <abarth> | mon and tues, I'm at an all-day meeting. wed works though |
| 23:18 | <Hixie> | aklein: ping https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23990 |
| 23:18 | <bholley> | blarg, I'm getting a visa on wed |
| 23:18 | <abarth> | where are you located? |
| 23:19 | <abarth> | I could do thursday in san francisco |
| 23:19 | <Hixie> | thurs is no good for me |
| 23:19 | <Hixie> | friday works though if you're around |
| 23:19 | <bholley> | abarth: I'm kinda stochastic between the peninsula, east bay, and SF |
| 23:19 | <abarth> | i could do friday in SF |
| 23:20 | <Hixie> | friday in the goog office? |
| 23:20 | <Hixie> | i can just work from google's SF office on friday if we do that |
| 23:20 | <bholley> | that works |
| 23:21 | <bholley> | I can do that to, I guess. We might think of other things to talk about |
| 23:21 | <Hixie> | heh |
| 23:21 | <bholley> | (assuming I'm allowed to do that?) |
| 23:21 | <abarth> | yes :) |
| 23:21 | <abarth> | send me email and we can work out the details |
| 23:21 | <Hixie> | bholley: i'm sure there's somewhere we can put you :-) |
| 23:21 | <bholley> | sounds good :-) |
| 23:22 | <bholley> | friday is the last day before Mozilla shuts down for 2 weeks :-) |
| 23:22 | <aklein> | Hixie: looking... |
| 23:22 | <Hixie> | this is friday 20th right, not tomorrow |
| 23:23 | <abarth> | yep |
| 23:24 | <aklein> | Hixie: pong |
| 23:25 | <Hixie> | aklein: thanks |
| 23:25 | <Hixie> | oh, interesting |
| 23:25 | <Hixie> | hadn't thought about how this impacts nested templates |
| 23:26 | <aklein> | yeah, nesting was the original motivation for re-use when the the ownerDocument already lacked a browsing context |
| 23:26 | <aklein> | just came naturally, basically |
| 23:27 | <Hixie> | ok well since i create the documents right there, i can label them easily enough |
| 23:28 | <aklein> | yeah, it's easy enough, just sort of tricky |
| 23:28 | <aklein> | would have liked to hear wchen's thoughts on this |
| 23:29 | <Hixie> | bholley: you gonna send e-mail to abarth and i for details? |
| 23:29 | <bholley> | Hixie: I did, didn't I |
| 23:29 | <bholley> | ? |
| 23:30 | <Hixie> | ah ok, cool. haven't gotten it yet. thanks. |
| 23:31 | <hober> | Hixie: coincidentally, i'll be in the google sf office tomorrow |
| 23:33 | hober | reads more, realizes you were talking about a different friday |
| 23:38 | <Hixie> | hober: d'oh |
| 23:38 | <Hixie> | hober: you wanna come the next friday also? :-) |
| 23:38 | <Hixie> | hober: actually what i wanted to ask you is who from apple would be appropriate to talk to about this |
| 23:39 | <bholley> | Hixie: maybe we should see if microsoft could send someone too? It could be a real summit! |
| 23:39 | <bholley> | ;-) |
| 23:42 | <Hixie> | i'd love to have them send someone |
| 23:51 | <Hixie> | aklein: bug fixed |
| 23:51 | <Hixie> | bholley: haven't seen your e-mail yet, fwiw |
| 23:52 | <aklein> | Hixie: thanks! |
| 23:53 | <bholley> | Hixie: it was sent to ian⊙hc |
| 23:53 | <bholley> | Hixie: subject: Friday the 20th at Google |
| 23:53 | <bholley> | abarth: did you get the email? |
| 23:54 | <Hixie> | it's quite possible that my mail setup ate it, or is just sitting on it to spite me |