| 00:04 | <hober> | Hixie: I'm not sure what this is |
| 00:07 | <bholley> | hober: this is a meetup to spec out the corner-case behavior of cross-origin Location objects |
| 00:11 | <Hixie> | hober: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20701 |
| 00:12 | <Hixie> | i'm going offline til tomorrow. later all. |
| 05:32 | <MikeSmith> | astearns: I suppose I should have realize that. Dunno why he bothers, since he's not going to get what he wants, if that's what he wants. Unless he wants to start writing ones himself in the old-school style to replace them |
| 05:33 | <MikeSmith> | some people really just love formalisms I guess |
| 06:14 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: http://bugzilla.validator.nu/ keeps requiring me to log back in during the same session, even though my IP is not changing and anyway I have "Restrict this session to this IP address". (And in both Firefox and Chromium) |
| 06:50 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: I checked the relevant Bugzilla settings and didn't see anything obviously wrong. |
| 06:51 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: I'm not a Bugzilla expert, so I really don't know what might be causing the problem |
| 06:51 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: do you know what I should be looking for? |
| 06:53 | <hsivonen> | annevk: regarding glibc and gb18030: a) not suprised at maintainer attitude b) gb18030 was supposed to be a UTF, so why does there exist a 2005 update? |
| 06:53 | <hsivonen> | *surprised |
| 07:00 | <hsivonen> | annevk: I find the use of PUA in GBK decoders (per http://coq.no/character-tables/chinese-simplified/en) troubling |
| 07:13 | <hsivonen> | annevk: considering that IE doesn't support (according to coq.no) ISO-8859-14 and -16, did you try to find out if there exists non-test case Web content in those encodings? |
| 07:25 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: my Bugzilla knowledge is pretty limited. Don't know what to suggest you should look for. But if you try it yourself I'd think you'd be able to reproduce it. |
| 07:47 | <zcorpan> | no patches, no record :-( |
| 07:50 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: the application-name edit seems like it selects no meta if no language has been declared. shouldn't it just fall back to the first element instead of none? |
| 08:26 | <MikeSmith> | trying figure out of marcosc is getting trolled in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2013Dec/0007.html or whether marcosc is actually the one doing the trolling |
| 08:40 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: indeed hard to say. marcosc's position looks rather extreme. what John Cowan says makes sense if he executes English as program code. |
| 08:50 | <zcorpan> | testing resolving url in a cache manifest was actually straight-forward, to my surprise |
| 09:02 | <zcorpan> | wonder if i should also test "fallback" and "online whitelist", that seems slightly more annoying |
| 09:09 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: claiming a spec that uses (English) prose pseudo-code is a "reference implementation" is like saying a recipe for a cake is the same thing as a cake |
| 09:41 | <marcosc> | what? |
| 09:41 | <marcosc> | me troll? |
| 09:42 | <marcosc> | hsivonen, MikeSmith - what he was implying doesn't make sense. |
| 09:42 | <marcosc> | English is not code |
| 09:43 | <marcosc> | And a spec not written in a form that can be implemented doesn't make sense |
| 09:43 | <marcosc> | also, I was basically giving the definition of a standard as defined by ISO, I think... let check on that |
| 09:48 | <tantek> | marcosc, standards that you have to pay for to get a copy of a PDF? |
| 09:52 | <zcorpan> | nice, i put \u00E5 in the query string in a cache manifest, presto fetches %C3%83%C2%A5 |
| 10:02 | <marcosc> | tantek: isn't that what makes a standard? :) |
| 10:04 | <marcosc> | "This might be very useful for people writing implementation code, butit's not so helpful for people *using* the feature (like authoring fileURIs), or people trying to understand why something works the way it works." |
| 10:04 | <hsivonen> | marcosc: well, suggesting a browser is a reference implementation is pretty extreme even for the WHATWG and doesn't make sense without saying *which* browser |
| 10:04 | <marcosc> | hsivonen: I don't follow? |
| 10:05 | <hsivonen> | marcosc: John is right about the meaning of "reference implementation" |
| 10:05 | <hsivonen> | marcosc: which means a piece of software whose behavior constitutes the authoritative standard |
| 10:06 | <marcosc> | I don't agree. Or at least, and implementation to me is something else. |
| 10:06 | <marcosc> | an spec cannot be an implementation of itself |
| 10:06 | <marcosc> | as an implementation cannot pass a test suite |
| 10:07 | <marcosc> | im·ple·men·ta·tion "the process of putting a decision or plan into effect; execution." |
| 10:07 | <hsivonen> | marcosc: John is right about what "reference implementation" means. When he says WHATWG specs are reference implementations, he probably considers WHATWG spec language style as algorithmic enough English to be like code |
| 10:08 | <marcosc> | even if that were true (which, is demonstratively not the case as English is pretty bad at executing), his definition of a standard would still be flawed |
| 10:09 | <marcosc> | as what he is suggesting for a standard is something that would not follow these rules and hence one could not implement reliably? |
| 10:09 | <hsivonen> | dunno how he defines "standard" |
| 10:09 | <marcosc> | well, he clearly excludes the WHATWG specs |
| 10:09 | <marcosc> | which makes me very suspicious and leads me to conclude that he is confused about what a standard is. |
| 10:09 | <hsivonen> | marcosc: maybe RFCs are something that one could not implement reliably, and, therefore, count as standards. ;-) |
| 10:10 | <marcosc> | heh |
| 10:10 | <marcosc> | could be :) |
| 10:10 | <marcosc> | I guess the same applies to W3C specs? |
| 10:10 | <hsivonen> | at least the ones that aren't just copies of WHATWG specs. :-) |
| 10:28 | <Ms2ger> | Nobody mentioned http://blog.chromium.org/2013/12/ecma-forms-tc52-for-dart-standardization.html yet? |
| 10:44 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger: zgrep |
| 10:45 | <jgraham> | Oh, I was way into the backscroll |
| 10:45 | <Ms2ger> | jgraham, yep, I found that, thanks :) |
| 10:45 | <jgraham> | Sorry |
| 11:24 | <darobin> | I had no idea that Ecma standardised Eiffel |
| 11:26 | <jgraham> | I hear it was a towering achievement |
| 11:26 | jgraham | gets his coat |
| 11:28 | <darobin> | badum *tsch* |
| 11:32 | <gsnedders> | … |
| 11:36 | <marcosc> | You know ECMA is the real deal because they publish using Word!... though those in-spec-algorithms my not cut the "standards" mustard. |
| 11:39 | <Ms2ger> | Pff, tc39 only does reference implementations |
| 11:42 | <jgraham> | They should have written the dart standard in js and the js standard in C# and the C# standard in Eiffel. Then it really would be an Eiffel tower. |
| 11:43 | <tantek> | jgraham++ |
| 11:44 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Don't say that. People might get ideas. |
| 11:45 | <Ms2ger> | Did gsnedders just get ideas for a thesis? |
| 11:46 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: It's fine. At the end they would publish the whole lot in Open Office XML transcoded into JSON and distribute it on HVD-ROM cartridges |
| 11:52 | <annevk> | hsivonen: I think gb18030 had an update to note more code points have a mapping, not sure exactly what the purpose was; it might be that the standard also has font requirements and such |
| 11:52 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: why the readyState check for video resize event? |
| 11:52 | <annevk> | hsivonen: I have not tried to find out anything for -14 and -16, if only one browser did not support an encoding my assumption was that I should include it |
| 11:56 | <annevk> | hsivonen: so it seems gb18030 and gbk in the Encoding Standard are basically wrong |
| 11:57 | <annevk> | hsivonen: I will figure out how to fix that I suppose :/ |
| 12:05 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: nm |
| 12:23 | <zcorpan> | css 'binding' is basically obsolete, right? |
| 12:33 | <annevk> | marcosc: oh man, that thread |
| 12:49 | <gsnedders> | darobin: I'm not sure I want to accept your pull requests. I'll merge them if it seems like people are actually going to implement them in browsers. |
| 12:53 | <hsivonen> | annevk: looking forward to finding out if we can get away with aliasing gbk to gb18030 |
| 12:53 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: when you put gb18030 instead of gbk in the HTML spec, did you do research or did you just make an optimistic guess that that would work? |
| 12:54 | <hsivonen> | (in the HTML spec as the Simplified Chinese fallback encoding that is) |
| 12:54 | <annevk> | hsivonen: so I think that alias is not feasible unless those 25 code points turn out not to matter |
| 12:54 | <annevk> | hsivonen: well actually, given what Opera did for a long time maybe it is... |
| 13:08 | <hsivonen> | So compared to ISO Greek, Windows Greek just bikesheds the position of Ά? why oh why? |
| 13:09 | <annevk> | What came first? ISO or Windows? |
| 13:09 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: Swapping it with what? An undefined character? |
| 13:10 | <annevk> | Might as well have been the standardization committee that had a hatred for Microsoft |
| 13:11 | <hsivonen> | "this difference was instrumented in order to rectify the appearance of an early version of Microsoft Word for Windows in which the end-of-section symbol clashed with the "Greek capital alpha with acute" glyph" |
| 13:14 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: Windows Greek has a paragraph symbol where ISO Greek has capital alpha with acute |
| 13:15 | <hsivonen> | annevk: ISO Greek is 1987 and a copy of a Greek standard from 1986 |
| 13:15 | <hsivonen> | annevk: dunno when Windows got Greek support |
| 13:17 | <annevk> | hsivonen: seems like Microsoft hated ISO then :/ |
| 13:19 | <darobin> | gsnedders: I don't expect you to merge them before you have more evidence |
| 13:20 | <gsnedders> | darobin: Okay, good to know we're on the same page :) |
| 13:20 | <darobin> | I mean, feel free to if you want to, but there's a reason I marked them as "merge with caution" |
| 13:20 | <darobin> | gsnedders: I'm landing this because input from implementers is that this is what they plan to do, but as always I'll believe that when I've seen it :) |
| 13:21 | <gsnedders> | darobin: Are there any bugs anywhere for it? |
| 13:23 | <darobin> | gsnedders: not on the parsing changes but the use cases were brought up from https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20115 and https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20114 |
| 13:24 | <gsnedders> | darobin: I meant for implementors |
| 13:24 | <darobin> | ah, sorry |
| 13:25 | <darobin> | gsnedders: there's https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33339 if you want to read long history; I'm not aware of others |
| 13:25 | <gsnedders> | (I don't care so much about why it's there as whether I should implement it :P) |
| 13:25 | <darobin> | gsnedders: my understanding was that WebKit wanted a bug when this came into the spec, so as to have a link |
| 13:25 | <darobin> | I'll be making sure that happens |
| 13:26 | <darobin> | and I can't give you a bug for IE though the input was positive :) |
| 13:26 | <darobin> | I don't know about Blink |
| 13:26 | <darobin> | gsnedders: I wouldn't bother taking the PRs yet, just leave them open and apply when something happens |
| 13:26 | <gsnedders> | Wow, I actually remember my login details for Bugzilla. :) |
| 13:27 | <darobin> | *normally* the changes I made to html5lib ought to be enough |
| 13:27 | <gsnedders> | darobin: BTW, you might want to add Ruby to the sanitizer whitelists — it should be safe, no? |
| 13:27 | <darobin> | mmm, that's a good point |
| 13:27 | <gsnedders> | On the other hand, my near total rewrite of the sanitizer will probably land before this :P |
| 13:28 | <gsnedders> | darobin: Can you comment as much on the bug, and explicitly say about waiting for impls for html5lib-tests (not everyone with reviewer access there so closely follows both WHATWG/W3C specs). |
| 13:29 | <gsnedders> | (I have an essay to somehow finish in the next 30 minutes or so.) |
| 13:29 | <darobin> | I was thinking of my own sanitiser anyway ;) |
| 13:29 | <darobin> | go finish your essay, I'll add the comments |
| 13:29 | <gsnedders> | (I'm not going to finish it. I've been ill for weeks, been granted maximum extension, and I'm still nearly 1000 words under min word count) |
| 13:30 | <darobin> | sorry to hear you've been ill |
| 13:30 | <darobin> | if you close IRC that just a little bit over a word every two seconds... |
| 13:31 | <gsnedders> | :) |
| 13:31 | <gsnedders> | I'm not sure I can write more without reading more papers to actually be able to cite anything more. |
| 13:36 | <darobin> | thanks, hober, really, for bikeshedding straight from the top of a thread |
| 13:45 | <annevk> | hsivonen: so it turns out they actually changed the mapping in gb18030 around 2005 |
| 13:46 | <annevk> | hsivonen: ftp://ftp.oreilly.com/pub/examples/nutshell/cjkv/pdf/GB18030_Summary.pdf has some background story |
| 13:48 | <annevk> | Pretty interesting: "We will later see that both the code space and the character repertoire of GBK create the foundation for the almost completely compatible code space of GB 18030. In fact, there is text in the standard indicating that GB 18030 (the “standard”) is meant to replace (代替 daiti) GBK (the “specification”)." |
| 13:51 | <annevk> | "Update: Actually, a third large gap can be found in the re-released mapping data now that is caused by the removal of the Unicode Surrogate code points (U+d800 through U+dfff) from the four-byte mapping area." |
| 13:51 | <annevk> | Whoa, so initially gb18030 covered more than Unicode scalar values |
| 13:53 | <annevk> | Kinda of like UCS-4, but more restricted in range... |
| 13:54 | <annevk> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-32 does not even mention it excludes surrogates... |
| 14:00 | <annevk> | http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781565922242.do needs a second edition to tell the story of gb18030 |
| 15:17 | <annevk> | The gb18030 situation might be less worse than expected. Extreme Decemberfest might hold me back in fixing it today though |
| 15:17 | <annevk> | s/worse/bad/ |
| 15:17 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger: -webkit-? Really |
| 15:17 | jgraham | is disappointed :p |
| 15:18 | <annevk> | jgraham: in Ms2ger or Chinese encodings? |
| 15:18 | <jgraham> | Both? |
| 15:19 | <Ms2ger> | jgraham, I did what now? |
| 15:19 | <jgraham> | meter::-webkit-meter-horizontal-bar and more gunk |
| 15:19 | <Ms2ger> | Oh, that |
| 15:19 | <Ms2ger> | I was young :) |
| 15:20 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: that phrase is reserved for us |
| 15:35 | MikeSmith | hums "whatever happened to the teenage dream?" |
| 15:56 | <gsnedders> | annevk: Bah, you're old! |
| 16:57 | <paxcoder> | keygen tag ooooh yeaaah |
| 17:09 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: re gb18030, the comment in the spec for that line says "Windows Vista, Chrome, and Firefox agreed", so it was part of the research you had me do with the big table from vista and chrome and firefox data |
| 17:09 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: oh, nevermind |
| 17:10 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: there's a source comment at the top of that section that says "[assumption:] Windows-936 is a basically a subset of GBK which is basically a subset of GB18030 (supported by wikipedia)" |
| 17:52 | <paxcoder> | can someone explain what the challenge (attribute) is in the keygen tag? |
| 18:00 | <Hixie> | paxcoder: the sum total of my understanding of keygen is in the spec :-( |
| 18:00 | <Hixie> | paxcoder: i recommend looking up SignedPublicKeyAndChallenge in [X690] |
| 18:02 | <Ms2ger> | paxcoder, you realize that this is something netscape came up with in the nineties? :) |
| 18:03 | <paxcoder> | Hixie, thanks... i'm still clueless though :-P |
| 18:03 | <paxcoder> | Ms2ger, i don't, but it rocks |
| 18:04 | <paxcoder> | though i guess it doesn't prevent MITM so it doesn't rock that much. |
| 18:04 | <Hixie> | paxcoder: what's the underlying problem you're trying to solve? |
| 18:05 | <paxcoder> | Hixie, nothing, i'm just going over HTML5 tags I don't know, and I'm wondering what a challenge is. But my hope is to get rid of CAs |
| 18:05 | <paxcoder> | (though I'm not sure if that's realistic) |
| 18:05 | <Hixie> | aah |
| 18:06 | <Hixie> | well if you manage to find a way to get rid of CAs, lots of people would be very happy (and lots very unhappy, but that's another story) |
| 18:06 | <paxcoder> | who'd be unhappy? |
| 18:06 | <Hixie> | the CAs, mainly |
| 18:06 | <paxcoder> | doesn't diffie-hellman get rid of them though? |
| 18:07 | <Hixie> | still need some way to prove identity |
| 18:07 | <Hixie> | and the CAs are the only way we have to do that so far |
| 18:07 | <paxcoder> | darnit |
| 18:11 | <Hixie> | https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24094 wtf |
| 18:11 | <Hixie> | someone went to the multipage spec's elements.html page |
| 18:11 | <Hixie> | then went to the namespaces.html page |
| 18:11 | <Hixie> | then clicked on the svg namespace |
| 18:12 | <Hixie> | then submitted the comment "i like may you install for the video html" |
| 18:12 | <Hixie> | WHAT ARE YOU DOING |
| 18:13 | <Hixie> | it's an African IP. So on the one hand, yay, we're getting feedback from Africa, I keep saying that using e-mail and Web is the way to do that and that f2fs and telecons disenfranchise many parts of the world including probably much of africa. |
| 18:13 | <Hixie> | but on the other hand, what did they mean??? |
| 18:13 | <TabAtkins> | That doesn't even English, so just close as invalid. |
| 18:14 | <TabAtkins> | Like, there's no way to interpret it into a meaningful sentence. |
| 18:14 | <Hixie> | i usually close those as NEEDSINFO |
| 18:14 | <Hixie> | but yeah |
| 18:14 | <Hixie> | (i reserve INVALID for things like actual obvious spam) |
| 18:47 | <TabAtkins> | Augh, good lord, talking on the SVG ml is almost impossible at times, with all the top-quoting and HTML-emailling. >_< |
| 18:48 | <Ms2ger> | At least it's not SVG-emailing |
| 18:53 | <TabAtkins> | Thank jeebus for that. |
| 19:25 | <jamesr__> | http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/compositing-1/#canvascompositingandblending - is that intended to add new values to 2d canvas? |
| 19:26 | <Ms2ger> | There's been some discussion on www-style |
| 19:26 | <Ms2ger> | Mostly coming down to "Are you high?" |
| 19:28 | <jamesr__> | yes, i've been posting a lot of that. i'm trying to figure out if this is different from the previous state or not |
| 19:36 | <Hixie> | jamesr__: i hope to defer to that spec eventually, |
| 19:37 | <Hixie> | jamesr__: but hopefully not until it's sane |
| 19:41 | <jamesr__> | it's not |
| 19:42 | <jamesr__> | most of the definitions are in sections marked non-normative |
| 19:42 | <jamesr__> | including all of the values referenced in the globalCompositeOperation section |
| 19:44 | <jamesr__> | even the css blend mode definitions refer to keywords defined in sections marked non-normative |
| 19:45 | jamesr__ | is really curious how this thing made it almost to CR |
| 19:45 | <Ms2ger> | Nobody's watching? |
| 19:46 | <jamesr__> | s'pose |
| 19:49 | <Hixie> | CR doesn't mean much... |
| 20:02 | <paxcoder> | Hixie, I think the only thing we can say when faced with the problem of identity and central authorities is: WOT? |
| 20:02 | <paxcoder> | but heck, I'm skeptical about the Web of trust too. |
| 20:04 | <paxcoder> | Degrees of separation and chinese whispers. |
| 20:04 | <paxcoder> | Actually, first thing only. The whispers are the work of Mallroy. |
| 20:05 | <paxcoder> | i'm rambling, bye :-) |
| 20:16 | <TabAtkins> | Sigh, I knew last time I reviewed Compositing that it was unreadable. I need to rewrite it. |
| 20:48 | <zcorpan> | what does <input type=file> do if you delete the selected file? |
| 21:19 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: ideally, once you've selected it, the browser makes a copy of it, so that you can't delete it |
| 21:20 | <Hixie> | (a hardlink, obviously, not a real copy, that would be way too inefficient for big files) |
| 21:21 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: where does that leave Blob.close()? :-) |
| 21:21 | <zewt> | well, if the user selects a file and then deletes it, they may well expect that it means the browser can't access it either |
| 21:22 | <zewt> | the website, rather |
| 21:23 | <zewt> | it also depends on what the behavior is when you select a file and then modify it: if you revoke access if the mtime changes (eg. selecting a file means "you have access to the file in this state, but not future states") then that works, but if it does mean to give access to changes too, then a hardlink will sometimes break that |
| 21:23 | <zewt> | (when programs save over files by creating a new file then renaming over the old one) |
| 21:48 | <Ms2ger> | http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook-help/print-emails-showing-names-on-the-bcc-line-HA102919777.aspx |
| 21:57 | <dekiss> | guys |
| 21:57 | <dekiss> | do you support webgl ? |
| 22:06 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: dunno |
| 22:06 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: ping https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24089 btw |
| 22:13 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: see https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23968 |
| 22:14 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: what CSS does is somewhat orthogonal, since it would override HTML on this |
| 22:14 | <Hixie> | the text in HTML is only really relevant in the hypothetical case of a language that doesn't specify what to do, yes supports <style> |
| 22:14 | <Hixie> | the only case i can think of is JSSS |
| 22:14 | <Hixie> | and nobody supports that anyway nowadays |
| 22:15 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: oh. well in that case i don't care |
| 22:15 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: i care about css :-) |
| 22:15 | <Hixie> | k :-) |
| 22:15 | <Hixie> | me too, i was a bit surprised by your bug :-) |
| 22:16 | <Hixie> | anyway, that css bug says it should likely not use utf-8 either |
| 22:16 | <Hixie> | (your last comment) |
| 22:16 | <Hixie> | the html spec as written says to use the doc encoding |
| 22:21 | <zcorpan> | yeah |
| 22:30 | <fischman> | good afternoon; is there policy about attributes vs. events? E.g. media elements have a durationchange event, but they do not have an ondurationchange attribute, which MediaController elements _do_ have. Is it generally expected that on each element that has an event foo there will be a corresponding onfoo attribute, or is it a case-by-case basis, according to what's in the spec? (concretely: I'm wondering whether my blink CL adding the |
| 22:32 | <zcorpan> | fischman: onfoo attributes in html are generally available on *all* html elements *and* on the document *and* on window |
| 22:32 | <zcorpan> | fischman: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/webappapis.html#event-handlers-on-elements,-document-objects,-and-window-objects |
| 22:34 | <Hixie> | woah, onresize isn't on elements |
| 22:34 | <Hixie> | let me fix that |
| 22:34 | <zcorpan> | fischman: MediaController isn't an element |
| 22:35 | <dekiss> | is the ewebgl part of html5? |
| 22:35 | <dekiss> | webgl* |
| 22:35 | <Hixie> | dekiss: depends what you mean by that exactly |
| 22:35 | <dekiss> | if no why ou don't make it guys |
| 22:35 | <dekiss> | 3d canvas |
| 22:35 | <dekiss> | webgl |
| 22:36 | <dekiss> | Vendors may define experimental contexts using the syntax vendorname-context, for example, moz-3d. |
| 22:36 | <dekiss> | † For example, the "webgl" value in the case of a user agent having exhausted the graphics hardware's abilities and having no software fallback implementation. |
| 22:36 | <dekiss> | ahh I see it is |
| 22:37 | <Hixie> | i have no idea what you are asking |
| 22:37 | <Hixie> | i actually have less of an idea now than i did when you first asked your question :-) |
| 22:38 | <fischman> | zcorpan: thanks. Is there a backstory for why this is so? I.e. what does it _mean_ for a <form> (say) element to have a non-null onseeking attribute set? |
| 22:38 | <Hixie> | fischman: just means it has an event handler |
| 22:38 | <fischman> | Hixie: that can never fire? |
| 22:38 | <Hixie> | it can fire whenever such an event is dispatched at the element in question |
| 22:38 | <Hixie> | or, for bubbling events, any of its descendants |
| 22:39 | <Hixie> | it's just like addEventListener(), more or less |
| 22:39 | <fischman> | Hixie: ah, bubbling is the thing I was forgetting. |
| 22:39 | <Hixie> | you can also dispatch events manually |
| 22:39 | <Hixie> | dispatchEvent() |
| 22:39 | <fischman> | Hixie: thanks for the clarifications (and for the event! :)) |
| 22:40 | <zcorpan> | fischman: as for the why, i think it was because it's simpler to implement |
| 22:41 | <fischman> | zcorpan: yeah, makes sense in a world where events aren't tied to elements (as bubbling and generic dispatchEvent() are). |
| 22:42 | zcorpan | is low on battery. both in laptop and brain |
| 22:42 | <zcorpan> | nn |
| 22:42 | <smaug____> | events aren't tied to elements |
| 22:45 | <dekiss> | Hixie sorry |
| 22:45 | <dekiss> | is the webgl part of the html5 specifications ? |
| 22:45 | <dekiss> | or any official w3c or whatwg specification |
| 22:46 | <dekiss> | omg |
| 22:46 | <dekiss> | ignore this please :)))) <dekiss> † For example, the "webgl" value in the case of a user agent having exhausted the graphics hardware's abilities and having no software fallback implementation. |
| 22:46 | <dekiss> | this was wrong paste :) |
| 22:46 | <Hixie> | what do you mean by "part of"? |
| 22:46 | <dekiss> | well....... |
| 22:46 | <dekiss> | part of hhh |
| 22:46 | <dekiss> | is tehre anything about webgl I am seeing something but don't udnertand :S |
| 22:46 | <Hixie> | do you mean, "is the specification of the webgl api published in the same document as the specification of the HTMLCanvasElement API?" |
| 22:46 | <dekiss> | let me check again |
| 22:47 | <dekiss> | no no |
| 22:47 | <dekiss> | I see webgl is mentioned in webgl specs |
| 22:47 | <dekiss> | http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html here exactly |
| 22:48 | <dekiss> | ah lol I got confused so yeah Vendors may define experimental contexts using the syntax vendorname-context, for example, moz-3d. |
| 22:48 | <dekiss> | † For example, the "webgl" value in the case of a user agent having exhausted the graphics hardware's abilities and having no software fallback implementation. |
| 22:48 | <dekiss> | this I don't understand |
| 22:48 | <dekiss> | this is part of the html5 - canvas specification |
| 22:48 | <Hixie> | that's part of the html specification |
| 22:48 | <Hixie> | (html5 is dead, long live html) |
| 22:50 | <dekiss> | :) |
| 22:50 | <dekiss> | ye |
| 22:50 | <dekiss> | ok haha Hixie ^^ |
| 22:50 | <dekiss> | YOu made that descision in 2011 |
| 22:50 | <dekiss> | that was part of my courses haha |
| 22:52 | <dekiss> | Hixie, like or not people, I am pretty sure webgl is the future of the web :) |
| 22:54 | <dekiss> | peopel liek it because looks awesome, developers liek it because it is awesome and it pays 150$.hour :) |
| 22:54 | <dekiss> | 150$/hour |
| 23:07 | <zewt> | webgl is definitely not the "future of the web", it's a useful feature but just that |
| 23:14 | <Hixie> | zewt: it's in the future |
| 23:14 | <Hixie> | zewt: of the web |
| 23:14 | <Hixie> | zewt: as are many things. |
| 23:16 | <zewt> | in the future, sure; the future, not so much |
| 23:18 | <Hixie> | i don't know what it would mean for something to be "the future" of what basically underpins the world's information economy |
| 23:18 | <cabanier> | Hixie: :-) |