| 00:41 | <Hixie> | man, do we still not have an answer to people who want a set of push buttons that act like a radio button set? |
| 00:44 | <annevk> | Hixie: aren't forms your area? |
| 00:44 | <Hixie> | this is rendering |
| 00:44 | annevk | wonders what a push button is |
| 00:44 | <annevk> | Hixie: ah, your question is whether the CSS WG has finally acknowledged they need to address form control styling? |
| 00:44 | <Hixie> | well either CSS or web components, but yeah |
| 00:44 | <Hixie> | basically :-) |
| 00:45 | <Hixie> | i mean like a version of <select> that shows adjacent buttons instead of a drop-down |
| 00:45 | <Hixie> | like: [ Arr ] [ Dep ] |
| 00:45 | <Hixie> | instead of ( ) Arr (o) Dep |
| 00:45 | <Hixie> | or [ Arr |v] |
| 00:46 | <annevk> | I think components wants to at least explain form controls, but I'm not sure how far that is |
| 00:46 | <annevk> | But I don't think there's anyone trying to solve this issue |
| 00:46 | <Hixie> | this is probably the second most important thing to work on, imho |
| 00:47 | <Hixie> | in css |
| 00:47 | <Hixie> | the first being mobile-related UI stuff |
| 00:47 | <Hixie> | though there might not be much of that needed in the CSS world |
| 00:48 | <annevk> | So offline is my #1 thing this year and fixing various issues with all my specs. Forms and UI events were things I was thinking about tackling once I got tired with those |
| 00:48 | <annevk> | But I need to consider that more carefully since they are sinkholes |
| 00:48 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 00:49 | <Hixie> | i've tried to fix it twice so far |
| 00:49 | <Hixie> | web controls, and xbl |
| 00:49 | <Hixie> | someone else's turn now :-) |
| 01:05 | <Domenic_> | I was also considering form styling |
| 01:05 | <Domenic_> | But it's pretty hard to find time given this is a hobby, so things like streams and even promsies seem likely to occupy my free time for quite a while. |
| 01:06 | <annevk> | Someone needs to hire you :/ |
| 01:06 | <annevk> | Yeah, streams are important too |
| 01:07 | <annevk> | But I guess form styling is more overdue |
| 03:22 | <Domenic_> | What did we do before promises? So far i have IDBRequest and File API's successCallback, errorCallback. Were there more? |
| 03:23 | <Domenic_> | i guess fullscreen API having you listen to separate events to see if your method call succeeded is another example |
| 06:03 | <annevk-cloud> | Domenic_: fullscreen is different, events are fired in other documents too |
| 06:05 | <annevk-cloud> | Domenic_: also see WebRTC, toBlob on canvas, geolocation (also has more complicated API promises do not work for), etc. |
| 06:36 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan_: thanks for the heads-up about http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=8432&to=8433 (making caption end tag optional) |
| 06:37 | <zcorpan_> | np |
| 06:45 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan_: also about the validator doctype-sniffing option in the REST API yeah, the change is, no sniffing except for opt-in in web service api |
| 06:45 | <MikeSmith> | but I don't plan to remove the option to sniff later |
| 06:45 | <zcorpan_> | MikeSmith: ok, sounds good |
| 06:46 | <MikeSmith> | ok thanks |
| 06:46 | <bhanu> | hi, I have few queries on recent changes being made on range methods, could anybody help me understand? |
| 06:46 | <zcorpan_> | bhanu: don't ask to ask just ask :-) |
| 06:49 | <bhanu> | ok, here are the queries : first being in DOM2 for setStartBefore/setStartAfter/setEndBefore/setEndAfter the specification says InvalidNodeTypeError should be thrown when root container of refNode is not an Attr, Document, or DocumentFragment node |
| 06:50 | <bhanu> | in DOM4 which is a work in draft its mentioned if parent of refNode is null, then throw InvalidNodeTypeError exception |
| 06:52 | <bhanu> | again there is no mention about what type of refNode would lead to the InvalidNodeTypeError exception |
| 06:54 | <zcorpan_> | bhanu: you're looking at http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/ yes? |
| 06:55 | <bhanu> | zcorpan : yes |
| 06:56 | <zcorpan_> | i find http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-range-bp-set |
| 06:58 | <zcorpan_> | so if parent is null or a doctype, you get InvalidNodeTypeError, but doctypes can't have children so it's just if parent is null for those methods |
| 06:59 | <bhanu> | parent specification is fine |
| 07:01 | <bhanu> | If I am not wrong the root node requirement is eradicated right which was there is in DOM2? |
| 07:01 | <zcorpan_> | oh so dom2 throws if the root is e.g. an element? |
| 07:02 | <bhanu> | yes |
| 07:02 | <bhanu> | I believe that is why this change is brought in |
| 07:02 | <zcorpan_> | yeah i don't see that in the dom spec. what do browsers do? |
| 07:03 | <bhanu> | I tried in chrome and mozilla, it doesn't throw any exception |
| 07:03 | <bhanu> | but its a old bug in webkit |
| 07:06 | <bhanu> | again there was restriction on the refNode in DOM2 i.e it shouldn't be any of Document, DocumentFragment, Attr, Entity, or Notation node |
| 07:06 | <bhanu> | which i don't see in DOM4 |
| 07:09 | <zcorpan_> | i'd recommend ignoring what dom2 says and go by what the new spec says and what browsers do (in case all browsers disagree with the spec, maybe the spec should be changed) |
| 07:10 | <bhanu> | ok, thanks |
| 08:37 | <gsnedders> | Is there any way to make a table split into columns using CSS? |
| 09:21 | <zcorpan_> | gsnedders: doesn't the html spec do that for the entity table? |
| 09:22 | <zcorpan_> | Hixie: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24411 seems like a bug for html, right? |
| 09:26 | <zcorpan_> | TabAtkins: do you plan to fix https://github.com/ResponsiveImagesCG/picture-element/issues/91 soon? it seems imperative to actually implementing the spec and writing tests |
| 10:24 | <gsnedders> | zcorpan_: I couldn't get CSS Multicol to work :( |
| 10:27 | <zcorpan_> | gsnedders: the spec's entity table multicols for me in presto and blink |
| 10:29 | <gsnedders> | zcorpan_: I dunno. I was trying really quickly just before printing stuff out. |
| 10:30 | <zcorpan_> | hsivonen: WDYT about https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24439 ? |
| 10:31 | <zcorpan_> | dom consistency was an argument in 2006 but maybe it's not so important today? |
| 11:15 | <jgraham> | zcorpan_: see https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=33794007&tree=Cedar the tests seem to time out in gecko? Could be expected I suppose |
| 11:19 | <zcorpan_> | jgraham: do you have https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/534 in? |
| 11:19 | <zcorpan_> | jgraham: the css tests don't time out in gecko for me |
| 11:20 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan_: commented on the bug |
| 11:20 | <zcorpan_> | jgraham: only 'loading webvtt <track>' which is expected (it's a gc bug i think) |
| 11:20 | <jgraham> | zcorpan_: Not sure, my sync is a bit out of date, but I can fix that easilly enough |
| 11:21 | <jgraham> | zcorpan_: OK. The weird thing is that those tests supposedly didn't time out on my machine. But that doesn't seem to be reproducable. |
| 11:22 | <zcorpan_> | hsivonen: thx |
| 11:35 | <zcorpan_> | jgraham: hmm. i'm confused. i want to move the structured clone tests from Workers to workers, but in my working copy git has them at both locations. :-S |
| 11:37 | <zcorpan_> | jgraham: could you try moving them? |
| 11:39 | <jgraham> | zcorpan_: I see files in Workers/semantics/structured-clone/ but nothing else under Workers. They don't seem to be under workers/ |
| 11:40 | <zcorpan_> | yeah that matches what the web interface says on github, but in my checkout i have all the tests in both locations. dunno if something gets confused by the names differing only by case or something |
| 11:41 | <jgraham> | zcorpan_: OK, I moved the files that were in Workers |
| 11:42 | <zcorpan_> | thanks! |
| 11:42 | <jgraham> | So now that shouldn't exist at all |
| 12:17 | hsivonen | wonders if howcome has an opinion on Client Hints |
| 12:18 | hsivonen | is late to Regions Considered Harmful |
| 13:42 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I can't recall what his views are on conneg |
| 13:43 | <MikeSmith> | but one thing that's disturbing about CH is its potential giving of new life to conneg |
| 13:50 | <yoav> | MikeSmith: Do you hold negative views RE conneg even if it's server-initiated opt-in conneg? Because that's what CH is |
| 13:56 | <MikeSmith> | yoav: I am keeping an open mind but I think it's pretty clear that conneg on the Web so far has not been a big success |
| 13:56 | <MikeSmith> | maybe CH will change that |
| 13:58 | <yoav> | On the one hand I agree (Content-Encoding being the best example). On the other hand, I believe 'key' and TLS may change that. |
| 13:58 | <yoav> | And opt-in conneg has very limited risk |
| 13:58 | <MikeSmith> | yeah relatively |
| 13:59 | <yoav> | If it doesn't work, we can remove it. No risk of polluting requests forever. |
| 13:59 | <MikeSmith> | that's definitely a nice aspect |
| 14:00 | <MikeSmith> | I'm curious why hsivonen thought Haakon might have a particular opinion on CH |
| 14:00 | <yoav> | Now I am too :) |
| 14:25 | <zcorpan_> | yoav: if we implement CH and sites start to rely on it being supported, it can't be removed |
| 14:28 | jgraham | thinks that CH is probably not Switzerland, but hasn't yet figured out what it is |
| 14:28 | <Ms2ger> | * hsivonen wonders if howcome has an opinion on Client Hints |
| 14:29 | <jgraham> | Yes, but what does CH stand for? ;) |
| 14:39 | <ondras> | Cyanide & Happiness ? |
| 15:11 | <whinzou> | hello |
| 15:42 | GPHemsley | wonders what a Client Hint is |
| 15:45 | <MikeSmith> | Internet Draft |
| 15:45 | <MikeSmith> | GPHemsley: ↑ |
| 15:46 | <MikeSmith> | from Ilya at Google |
| 15:50 | <jory> | So in theory Client Hints would allow mobile devices to specify different DPRs depending on available bandwidth... |
| 17:19 | <dglazkov> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 17:21 | <jcgregorio> | good morning dglazkov |
| 18:04 | <annevk> | Domenic_: new delay() looks better |
| 18:05 | <annevk> | Domenic_: seems about the same as saying to return and run the remaining steps async |
| 18:05 | <Domenic_> | yeah |
| 18:05 | <Domenic_> | as i said might abandon that attempt to make things make more sense to me |
| 19:10 | <annevk> | Hixie: http://www.unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2014-m01/0053.html explains the situation |
| 19:11 | <Hixie> | that e-mail... makes no sense |
| 19:12 | <annevk> | :-) |
| 19:12 | <Ms2ger> | Did you look at the mailing list it was sent to first? |
| 19:12 | <Hixie> | what's wrong with "windows1252" as the name? |
| 19:12 | <Hixie> | windows-1252, even |
| 19:12 | <Ms2ger> | Already taken |
| 19:12 | <annevk> | I think the context is a Python library, but I'm not completely sure |
| 19:15 | <Hixie> | Ms2ger: isn't it already taken to mean exactly what this guy means? "what browsers do"? |
| 19:15 | <Ms2ger> | I dunno |
| 19:27 | <annevk> | Hixie: I think we convinced TC39 to take on structured cloning; might take a while for it to be integrated and such though |
| 19:27 | <Hixie> | when you say "take on structured cloning" |
| 19:27 | <Hixie> | you mean "provide hooks for structured cloning", right? |
| 19:27 | <Hixie> | i mean, i don't want us to change to non-DOM exceptions and all that just because it moves to a new forum |
| 19:28 | <annevk> | Hixie: yeah, and define how it behaves for new objects themselves |
| 19:29 | <annevk> | Hixie: DOMException is going to be just another Error subclass |
| 19:29 | <annevk> | Hixie: the plan is to move it to IDL and have IDL provide the hooks for throwing |
| 19:29 | <annevk> | Hixie: rather than DOM |
| 19:30 | <Hixie> | so long as it's not churning on authors for no good reason |
| 19:31 | <annevk> | I think apart from going to getter/setter to data properties it would remain identical and would make it clear that no new exceptions are to be minted outside IDL |
| 19:41 | <jory> | Hey I wanted to update a broken link on the wiki. |
| 19:42 | <jory> | http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MetaExtensions |
| 19:42 | <jory> | The viewport-meta link is broken. |
| 19:42 | <annevk> | jory: go ahead |
| 19:44 | <jory> | annevk: It says I need to get access from one of the IRC regulars |
| 19:45 | <annevk> | jory: PM me your desired username and password |
| 19:55 | <jcgregorio> | Hixie: Canvas "Path" vs "Path2D" http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2013Nov/0138.html |
| 19:55 | <jcgregorio> | is there agreement to update the spec? |
| 19:56 | <annevk> | Isn't it weird if Path is the only thing with a suffix? |
| 19:57 | <Hixie> | jcgregorio: i thought safari had shipped with it as Path |
| 19:58 | <jcgregorio> | Hixie, I'll have to check that, I was under the impression no one had implemented it yet |
| 19:59 | <Hixie> | there's been discussion of it on the whatwg list, but i can't find my last e-mail on the topic |
| 20:00 | <jcgregorio> | annevk: true, also for the sake of symmetry it's not like there's a lot of *3D objects in WebGL |
| 20:00 | <Hixie> | i guess http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2013Nov/0125.html is the last thing from me on it |
| 20:01 | <Domenic_> | new goal in life: be the first to spec a 4D-suffixed class |
| 20:03 | <jcgregorio> | Hixie: sgtm, thanks |
| 20:03 | <Hixie> | jcgregorio: at the end of the day i'll spec whatever ships most widely, obviously |
| 20:05 | <annevk> | Safari has Path |
| 20:05 | <annevk> | We should not rename |
| 20:06 | <annevk> | Proof: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/2788 |
| 20:06 | <annevk> | jcgregorio: Hixie: ^^ |
| 20:07 | <jcgregorio> | annevk: thanks! |
| 20:09 | <Hixie> | annevk: can you get it to do anything? |
| 20:10 | <Hixie> | annevk: e.g. http://goo.gl/iXggPJ |
| 20:10 | <Hixie> | annevk: doesn't do anything? |
| 20:13 | <annevk> | Hixie: hmm |
| 20:14 | <annevk> | hober: ^^ |
| 20:14 | annevk | is fixing URLSearchParams |
| 20:16 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: did you see that othermaciej mentioned he's implementing the URL spec? |
| 20:18 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: yeah talked about it with him |
| 20:18 | <othermaciej> | I told annevk in person :-) |
| 20:18 | <othermaciej> | I will probably land the first patch today |
| 20:18 | <MikeSmith> | cool |
| 20:18 | <othermaciej> | but it is missing features and super buggy from the parsing and part replacement perspective |
| 20:18 | <othermaciej> | annevk: btw I hate 'URLUtils' as an interface name |
| 20:18 | <othermaciej> | annevk: it really should be something like 'URLParts' or 'URLDecomposition' or something |
| 20:18 | <annevk> | hah, I copied something from Hixie I think |
| 20:19 | <annevk> | that might be better |
| 20:19 | <annevk> | it's not exposed to script though |
| 20:19 | <othermaciej> | yeah I know |
| 20:19 | <othermaciej> | but I matched the interface name in our IDL anyway |
| 20:19 | <othermaciej> | (so people reading our code and the spec don't get confused) |
| 21:57 | <Hixie> | foolip: you around? you got any ideas for how to fix https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24350 ? |
| 23:59 | <annevk> | whoa |
| 23:59 | <annevk> | major shift in promises |
| 23:59 | <annevk> | for the better |
| 23:59 | <annevk> | it seems |
| 23:59 | <Domenic_> | :) |