| 00:23 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: see mithro's comment |
| 00:34 | <mithro> | Hixie / GPHemsley: annevk hooked me up with an account, thanks! Probably a good idea to either change the link in the header or fix the page at http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers%26group%3Dautoconfirmed |
| 01:18 | <Hixie> | did we ever determine the average number of attributes per start tag on the web? |
| 06:44 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/stats/attrcounts.png |
| 06:45 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: though i think that's both old and a very small sample |
| 08:41 | <jgraham> | http://xkcd.com/1343/ - reminds me of http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/introduction.html#how-to-read-this-specification :) |
| 09:07 | <zcorpan> | https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23822 so should we change XHR to not use utf-8? |
| 10:45 | <annevk> | Can someone explain to me why you'd check Attr.specified? |
| 10:51 | <zcorpan> | annevk: you'd check it to filter out attributes that shouldn't exist per today's rules? |
| 10:52 | <darobin> | annevk: the Sizzle source code says "Use getAttributeNode to fetch booleans when getAttribute lies" and uses that with .specified |
| 10:53 | <darobin> | it seems to be related to the fact that in some cases the browser gives a value for an attribute that wasn't there |
| 10:55 | <zcorpan> | yeah the old dom spec required that an Attr be there if the DTD gives a default value, with .specified = false |
| 10:55 | <zcorpan> | and some browsers actually did, iirc old presto at least |
| 10:55 | <darobin> | the comments says IE<9 |
| 11:07 | <annevk> | zcorpan: o_O |
| 11:10 | <foolip_> | annevk: is there anything about Attr that doesn't make you o_O? |
| 11:11 | <darobin> | foolip_: good point |
| 11:11 | foolip_ | found out about the child text node thing recently and was amused |
| 11:11 | <foolip_> | or horrified, really |
| 11:11 | <darobin> | foolip_: oh you can have more than one child node |
| 11:13 | <foolip_> | sure |
| 11:13 | <foolip_> | who designed this API, and did it seem good at the time? |
| 11:14 | <annevk> | The child text node thing is because they also add Entity as a node and the DOM was also creating documents... |
| 11:14 | <annevk> | It was all kind of bad |
| 11:26 | <darobin> | foolip_: the DOM never seemed good to anyone that I know of |
| 11:26 | <darobin> | they were trying to cater to too many use cases at the same time, with too little experience of what was needed |
| 11:27 | <darobin> | notably, it was thought it could be used for authoring tools, which was a pretty bad idea |
| 11:38 | <Ms2ger> | Don't tell glazou |
| 11:39 | <annevk> | I don't get http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2013Nov/0204.html |
| 11:39 | <annevk> | The 2D suffix is inconsistent with most bits of the <canvas> API |
| 11:40 | <annevk> | darobin: also Java |
| 11:40 | <Ms2ger> | CanvasRenderingContext2D? |
| 11:40 | <darobin> | annevk: well yeah, that didn't help either |
| 11:40 | <Ms2ger> | Also XML, DTDs... |
| 12:39 | <GPHemsley> | mithro: Fixed, thanks. |
| 14:15 | <annevk> | I like that Aryeh Gregor has been back, I hope he sticks around |
| 14:24 | <Ms2ger> | He said that he wouldn't be, pretty much |
| 14:24 | <Ms2ger> | But he does check email occasionally |
| 15:06 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: why did you not use [TreatNullAs=EmptyString] for nodeValue? |
| 15:07 | <Ms2ger> | Hmm |
| 15:08 | <Ms2ger> | I think I was mirroring textContens |
| 15:08 | <Ms2ger> | nt* |
| 15:09 | <Ms2ger> | I guess they can both use [TreatNullAs=EmptyString] |
| 15:10 | <Ms2ger> | Or not... |
| 15:10 | <Ms2ger> | The [TreatNullAs] extended attribute MUST NOT be specified on an operation argument, attribute or operation return value whose type is not DOMString. |
| 15:10 | <Ms2ger> | And it's 'DOMString?' |
| 15:10 | <Ms2ger> | annevk, ^ |
| 15:11 | <annevk> | Oh, because it returns null? Meh |
| 15:11 | <annevk> | I wish we had separate getter and setter types already |
| 15:23 | <annevk> | I forgot how getAttributeNode() worked |
| 15:28 | <annevk> | foolip_: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25016 |
| 16:18 | <dglazkov> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 16:57 | <Ms2ger> | "I like XSL-FO's..." |
| 16:57 | Ms2ger | backs away |
| 18:05 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: thanks |
| 18:36 | <annevk> | Just use utf-8 in 2014 is still not trivially accepted: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21275#c17 |
| 18:36 | <annevk> | Also before comment 17 for what it's worth |
| 18:40 | <annevk> | I like http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2014Mar/0005.html |
| 20:03 | <Hixie> | it's annoying that there's no way to tell if the author is writing <canvas> fallback content for when the canvas is disabled vs for when the canvas is interactive but the user has an AT |
| 20:03 | <Hixie> | (i kinda want different content models for those two cases) |
| 20:04 | <Hixie> | (e.g. it'd be helpful to catch the case of an author accidentally putting an <img> in an interactive canvas's AT tree, but obviously in the disabled-canvas fallback case it's highly likely that an image or image map would be useful) |
| 20:15 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: ping https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24892 |
| 21:20 | <jamesr_> | annevk, smaug____: in case you haven't seen it, we've pushed back the showModalDialog deletion by 6 weeks in blink |
| 21:20 | <Ms2ger> | Aww |
| 21:20 | <jamesr_> | eta to removal hitting stable is late july |
| 21:20 | <smaug____> | jamesr_: noticed |
| 21:20 | <Hixie> | so is anyone running a pool on when showModalDialog() will actually drop from chrome stable? :-) |
| 21:21 | <Hixie> | or maybe when it will drop from firefox would be an even better pool :-) |
| 21:22 | <smaug____> | I think I'm happy to let Chrome take some more of the breakage-hit |
| 21:22 | <Hixie> | i'll put ten chips on it being removed from chrome for more than 12 weeks by 2017, removed from firefox by 2021. :-) |
| 21:23 | <smaug____> | hmm, Firefox 31 would be end of July |
| 21:23 | <smaug____> | that is possible |
| 21:23 | <smaug____> | which one is the next esr |
| 21:23 | <Ms2ger> | 31 |
| 21:24 | <smaug____> | ok, 32 sounds then better target for the removal |
| 21:24 | <smaug____> | beginning of September |
| 21:24 | <jamesr_> | ~when would that be? |
| 21:24 | <jamesr_> | ok |
| 21:29 | <smaug____> | jamesr_: hey, long ago you asked about having deltas in scroll event? |
| 21:29 | <smaug____> | any plans to implement such thing in Blink? |
| 21:30 | <smaug____> | since there is a patch for Gecko, but need to get the thing spec'ed ... assuming there is interest for it |
| 21:35 | <jamesr_> | that sounds like a useful thing to me. i'm not seeing any open bugs on this |
| 21:36 | <jamesr_> | where can we usefully spec new things on events? |
| 21:36 | <smaug____> | jamesr_: I think you asked about deltas around 2011-05-06 |
| 21:36 | <smaug____> | jamesr_: probably webapps |
| 21:37 | <jamesr_> | i think it'd be great. we also need to figure out how to get off of integers for these things |
| 21:38 | <jamesr_> | the number of machines for which integers can represent something useful keeps declining at a rapid rate |
