| 09:08 | <zcorpan> | jgraham_: the chocolate was very nice. haven't had anything quite like it before. much taste. such flavour. or as i said to jenni, bra fräs |
| 09:09 | Ms2ger | wonders which |
| 09:10 | <zcorpan> | http://marouchocolate.com/post/58397164815/products 80% |
| 09:12 | <jgraham_> | zcorpan: Excellent :) |
| 13:48 | <SimonSapin> | http://w3c.github.io/webcomponents/spec/custom/#concepts links for NCName to a 1999 spec that’s been updated twice since, and the new definition looks different. Is this deliberate? |
| 13:57 | <zewt> | heh, someone posting to mongodb-user with an <img> containing a gigantic data: url |
| 13:58 | <zewt> | i wonder if he got that from "copy image location" on a canvas, that's what firefox did last i checked |
| 14:47 | <gsnedders> | SimonSapin: Oh, sorry, it was 3e that updated NCName with a semantic change. I forgot the timing of the changes. :) |
| 14:49 | <SimonSapin> | gsnedders: so, is webcomponents linking to 1e a good idea? |
| 14:50 | <gsnedders> | SimonSapin: Is anyone using XML1.05e+XMLnames1.0e3? AFAIK Everyone still targets XML1.0e4 + XMLnames1.0e2 |
| 14:50 | <SimonSapin> | I have no idea |
| 14:50 | <gsnedders> | AFAIK no browser has wanted to impl the changes in XML1.05e |
| 14:50 | <Ms2ger> | Maybe Servo accidentally |
| 14:51 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: annevk suggested that libxml is 5th edition and Chrome blindly imports it |
| 14:51 | <gsnedders> | Even though everyone constantly updates the list of what names are valid in JS identifiers |
| 14:51 | <SimonSapin> | gsnedders: How can I and other people working on Servo can find out about "everyone agrees" besides asking you? |
| 14:51 | <jgraham> | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=501837 |
| 14:51 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: libxml2 is 5th ed, yes, but has a flag for 4th ed, dunno if Chrome sets it |
| 14:53 | <gsnedders> | I don't get why people are willing to change the JS syntax through Unicode updates but not XML. |
| 14:53 | <Ms2ger> | Other people |
| 14:54 | <gsnedders> | I know. But the people objecting to XML changes typically concern themselves with all of the web platform, inc. JS. |
| 14:55 | <Ms2ger> | Fighting tc39 is hard |
| 14:55 | <gsnedders> | Sure, but why follow TC39 and ignore XML Core WG? |
| 14:56 | <gsnedders> | Difficulty of fighting is irrelevant when you're willing to ignore specs. |
| 14:57 | <Ms2ger> | I guess presence of JS engineers who are willing to follow tc39 |
| 14:57 | <zcorpan> | i think upgrading to 5ed presented difficulties because different set of tools make assumptions, so you need to get all of them upgraded which is hard. js doesn't have that so much |
| 14:58 | zcorpan | now escapes |
| 16:01 | <Domenic_> | why is XML relevant? I assume this is about HTML syntax? |
| 16:06 | <jgraham> | Domenic_: Because web components defines something in terms of xml-names |
| 16:07 | <gsnedders> | But *why*? |
| 16:07 | <gsnedders> | Because the DOM's creators limit themselves to XML-names? |
| 16:07 | <jgraham> | Oh one level deeper? |
| 16:07 | <jgraham> | No idea |
| 16:08 | <gsnedders> | That's the level I'm curious at. |
| 16:08 | <jgraham> | Doesn't it match HTML? |
| 16:08 | <gsnedders> | No, it doesn't. |
| 16:09 | <gsnedders> | <foo:bar:lol> is perfectly fine in HTML. Also even the local name "foo:bar". |
| 16:09 | <Domenic_> | seems bad |
| 16:09 | <Hixie> | ("perfectly fine" except for being non-conforming of course) |
| 16:09 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: At a parser level or just an unknown element level? |
| 16:10 | <jgraham> | Sure, I know the parser can deal |
| 16:10 | <gsnedders> | Because the latter doesn't really apply in the web components case, surely? |
| 16:10 | <jgraham> | I guess HTML has a closed list of elements |
| 16:10 | <Hixie> | ("foo:bar:lol" is not a known element, though i expect there's a cascade of other errors that would turn up at the same time) |
| 16:10 | <jgraham> | So that's not very relevant |
| 16:10 | <SamB> | and nobody is ever going to define an element of that name, either |
| 16:10 | <Hixie> | yeah, i'm not really sure what we should do for conformance of web components |
| 16:10 | <gsnedders> | Who cares that it isn't a known element when we're in the web components case, though? |
| 16:10 | <jgraham> | Anyway, making web-component names that you can't create through DOM APIs seems bad |
| 16:11 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Yeah, I presume this is the reason for the restriction |
| 16:11 | <gsnedders> | dglazkov: yt? |
| 16:12 | <Hixie> | it would be interesting if we could get something useful out of validators even when you use custom components |
| 16:13 | <gsnedders> | Indeed. |
| 16:13 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: But yeah, elements in HTML are closed set, attributes are open set. |
| 16:13 | SamB | wonders what about 5e would make it important to upgrade all software at once -- does just unpinning Unicode really cause this? |
| 16:13 | <Hixie> | though really once you're using custom components you've pretty much sacrificed the ability for the web to work without css and js, especially if you don't have a fallback element... |
| 16:29 | <SimonSapin> | http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#dom-document-createelementns and other parts of the same spec link to http://www.w3.org/TR/xml/#NT-Name and http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-names/#NT-QName . Should that change if everyone agrees the latest editions are bad? |
| 16:29 | <dglazkov> | good morning, whatwg! |
| 16:29 | <Ms2ger> | Hmm, did someone change it... |
| 16:29 | <dglazkov> | SimonSapin: I just did what annevk said to do. Let me find the bug |
| 16:32 | <dglazkov> | https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20973 |
| 17:04 | <mathiasbynens> | zcorpan (if you read the logs): https://twitter.com/kizmarh/status/453215891908722689 |
| 17:22 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: yt? |
| 17:30 | <annevk> | gsnedders: Chrome implements XML 1.0 5th edition afaict |
| 22:25 | <Hixie> | what's happened to live dom viewer on firefox? |
| 22:30 | <smaug____> | live dom viewer? |
| 22:32 | <Hixie> | http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/ |
| 22:32 | <Hixie> | the rendered view no longer renders? |
| 22:32 | <smaug____> | works fine here |
| 22:33 | <Hixie> | i'm on 29, beta |
| 22:33 | <Hixie> | the rendered view just gives a 0-height iframe |
| 22:33 | <miketaylr> | wfm on nightly |
| 22:33 | <Hixie> | weird |
| 22:34 | <smaug____> | wfm on beta |
| 22:38 | <Hixie> | i wonder what's up with my build then |
| 23:04 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: req html5lib #146/147 speedy review, blocks Travis CI passing anything |
| 23:25 | <zewt> | not sure i've seen anything in a version control system that kills my workflow instantly more than git's auto-gc |
| 23:25 | <SamB> | zewt: you could turn that off and set up a cronjob? |
| 23:25 | <gsnedders> | You can disable it :P |
| 23:26 | <zewt> | right now i'm twiddling my thumbs since it's taking several minutes |
| 23:26 | <zewt> | also i don't want expensive cronjobs on my laptop, heh |
| 23:28 | <SamB> | excuses! |
| 23:28 | <SamB> | I guess you could try to set the threshold so high you could just take a break and watch an episode of something while you wait? |
| 23:31 | <zewt> | doesn't help when it happens while I'm at work an hour late trying to finish something :P |
| 23:32 | <SamB> | well, you have a choice here: have while you work, or at some other point |
| 23:34 | <Hixie> | that's a fallacy of an excluded middle |
| 23:35 | <Hixie> | there's a third option: have git not have any synchronous or blocking maintenance tasks. |
| 23:35 | <zewt> | i tend to expect database-like systems to not require periodic downtime to retain performance these days |
| 23:36 | <SamB> | anyway, patches seem welcome |
| 23:36 | <Hixie> | or just use svn :-) |
| 23:36 | <SamB> | crazies |
| 23:37 | <Hixie> | anyone here managed to get requestAutocomplete() to work? |
| 23:51 | <annevk> | Hixie: JakeA might have |
| 23:51 | <annevk> | Hixie: sicking expressed a concern with requestAutocomplete() about universal address input not being sorted yet |
| 23:52 | <Hixie> | the address-level3 stuff? that's blocked awaiting mozilla input... |
| 23:52 | <Hixie> | https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25235 |
| 23:53 | <Hixie> | backstory in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2014Apr/0010.html |
| 23:57 | <Hixie> | annevk: ^ |
| 23:58 | <annevk> | hmm |
| 23:59 | <annevk> | maybe I should become project manager |
| 23:59 | <annevk> | feels like I do stuff like that at least 30% of my time |
| 23:59 | <Hixie> | heh |