00:06
<JonathanNeal>
smaug____: well if they frustrate you, write your own.
00:08
<JonathanNeal>
WYSIHTML Spec
00:30
<chrisdickinson>
has the CSS subject selector syntax been dropped? (summarized here, http://css4-selectors.com/selector/css4/subject-of-selector-with-child-combinator/ for lack of a better link)
12:18
<mathiasbynens>
Hixie_: can haz *.html5.org SSL certificate?
12:19
<annevk>
mathiasbynens: I have to do that I think
12:19
<mathiasbynens>
annevk: oh, okay. are you up for it?
12:19
<annevk>
I was planning on looking into StartSSL about now, but got distracted by something
12:19
<mathiasbynens>
specifically i have some tests are use the data in http://mathias.html5.org/data/unicode/, and i’d like them to work over HTTPS
12:19
<Ms2ger>
Anything there we shouldn't move to whatwg.org?
12:20
<annevk>
Ms2ger: there's a whole bunch of personal sites hosted there
12:21
<annevk>
mathiasbynens: makes sense, I'll have a look
12:22
<mathiasbynens>
annevk: ta!
12:28
<Domenic>
yay ssl
12:28
<Domenic>
chrisdickinson: it's become :has, which is equivalent in capability
12:28
<annevk>
Hmm, private key generation doesn't work in e10s
12:28
<Domenic>
chrisdickinson: also, last I heard from TabAtkins, it will be implemented in stylesheets, not just in querySelector, yay!
12:30
<mathiasbynens>
annevk: yeah there’s a bugzilla ticket for that iirc. opera has a similar issue
12:31
<annevk>
I hope they let me try this again in a window without e10s
12:31
<annevk>
looks like it
12:38
<annevk>
okay, so for this to work I have to make email addresses work
12:43
<mathiasbynens>
oh, right
12:46
<annevk>
mathiasbynens: feel free to keep pinging me about this
13:04
<annevk>
mathiasbynens: I saw you hadn't blogged yet about your TLS transition
13:04
<annevk>
mathiasbynens: in the works?
13:05
<mathiasbynens>
annevk: didn’t plan to write about it – it was easier than expected
13:11
<annevk>
One thing that's unclear to me is how this works with content. Does DreamHost automatically mirror?
13:12
<annevk>
And then it's up to me to add redirects for non-TLS traffic plus HSTS?
13:12
<mathiasbynens>
annevk: you basically tell Apache to listen on port 443 as well, and for each virtualhost (if you have more than one) point it to the cert + private key
13:13
<mathiasbynens>
annevk: that last part is super easy
13:13
<mathiasbynens>
let me know if i can help with the Apache setup
13:13
<annevk>
I don't think I have direct Apache access, but DreamHost provides configuration per wiki.dreamhost.com/Secure_Hosting#Purchasing_a_Signed_SSL_Certificate but does not detail how it affects content
13:14
<annevk>
In any event, I'm still waiting for DNS propagation so email can work...
13:16
<mathiasbynens>
oh, I see
13:16
<mathiasbynens>
well each host can just do something like this in `.htaccess`:
13:16
<annevk>
Hmm, e10s address bar copy-and-paste :(
13:17
<mathiasbynens>
Header set Strict-Transport-Security "max-age=13333337; includeSubDomains" env=HTTPS
13:17
<mathiasbynens>
RewriteEngine On
13:17
<mathiasbynens>
RewriteCond %{HTTPS} off
13:17
<mathiasbynens>
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ https://foo.html5.org%{REQUEST_URI} [R=301,L]
13:18
<annevk>
Is includeSubDomains needed if there are none?
13:18
<annevk>
I guess there's pretty much always www, so yes
13:19
<annevk>
Hmm, if you let DreamHost take care of that www to non-www redirect, they probably won't include that header. So you'd have to do that yourself perhaps...
13:19
<mathiasbynens>
`includeSubDomains` should be the default; not cool to have HTTPS only for one subdomain but not the others
13:20
<annevk>
Well I have some domains without subdomain.
13:20
<mathiasbynens>
annevk: but then still you want them to get HTST
13:20
<mathiasbynens>
in case someone accesses foo.domainwithoutsubdomain.com
13:20
<annevk>
That would not resolve in DNS
13:22
<mathiasbynens>
…but it might in a MitM attack scenario
13:22
<annevk>
Good point
13:22
<mathiasbynens>
with HTTPS/HSTS that risk is avoided
13:22
<annevk>
They should have made that flag an opt out
13:22
<annevk>
Bad protocol design
13:42
<mathiasbynens>
Hixie_: whatwg.org has a valid SSL cert, but most of its pages contain mixed content e.g. https://www.whatwg.org/specs/
13:43
<mathiasbynens>
Hixie_: also sub-subdomains present a (different) default-Dreamhost cert that triggers a warning, e.g. https://url.spec.whatwg.org/
13:44
<mathiasbynens>
Hixie_: anything we can do to help fix these issues?
14:02
<annevk>
Mike West is also interested in helping out I think
14:11
<annevk>
mathiasbynens: does generating a private key generally take a long time?
14:12
<annevk>
mathiasbynens: was picking a 4K key length a mistake?
14:12
<Ms2ger>
Yes and no
14:13
<annevk>
I've been waiting a couple of minutes on this website now I think, I guess I can just leave it open
14:13
<mathiasbynens>
annevk: just create it yourself
14:13
<mathiasbynens>
annevk: `openssl genrsa -aes256 -out private-encrypted.key 2048`
14:13
<mathiasbynens>
annevk: https://konklone.com/post/switch-to-https-now-for-free#generating-the-certificate is more or less how i did it
14:15
<annevk>
that goes a lot quicker
14:21
<annevk>
however, startssl is still slow
14:31
<annevk>
mathiasbynens: so I hit a problem
14:31
<annevk>
mathiasbynens: I can only get this for one subdomain
14:31
<annevk>
mathiasbynens: I need to be class2 to make this work for html5.org
14:35
<annevk>
ok, so that's USD 60
14:36
<mathiasbynens>
yep, *.domain.ext certs are not free :(
14:37
<annevk>
i'll start the process for that, why not
14:38
<annevk>
"The documents should be of high quality and high resolution, but not exceed 1400 x 1400 pixels and weigh less than 1 MB." geez
14:42
<mathiasbynens>
sorry for putting you through this, annevk :P
14:44
<annevk>
this UI is terrible
14:53
<annevk>
I guess I'll wait with anything until they verified me so I only have to do this every two years
14:56
<annevk>
Hixie_: I don't know if this is feasible, but perhaps you could switch the whole TLS business for whatwg.org over to me so I can get us new certificates every two years.
14:57
<annevk>
Hixie_: that way only one of us has to do this personal verification dance and since I'm already doing it, you don't have to bother. The only problem I see is that you already tied the whatwg.org domain to you. I'm not sure how strong of a tie that is.
15:21
<annevk>
So, passport and identity card or driver license; then either utility bill plus 5-10 days waiting for a letter or phone bill
15:21
<annevk>
I'm trying out if my phone contract works since I don't have a bill
15:42
<annevk>
And it didn't, because it lists the number from before they changed it back to my prepaid...
15:45
<annevk>
mathiasbynens: this means we have to wait 5-10 business days
15:55
<Garbee>
Does anyone know if a fieldset element is actually supposed to have its name submitted with the form? http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/forms.html#the-fieldset-element
15:55
<Garbee>
I am not seeing the behavior in any browser, yet MDN and WPD both state that it should be submitted with the form.
15:56
<annevk>
Garbee: I recommend updating MDN
15:57
<annevk>
Garbee: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/forms.html#category-submit
15:57
<Garbee>
ah! Thanks.
15:57
<Garbee>
I was looking over another section it looks like. Actually outlining what engines should do on submission.
16:01
<Garbee>
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/forms.html#dom-form-elements
16:01
<annevk>
That specifically defines the <form>.elements API
16:01
<Garbee>
I'll update WPD then, I don't have a MDN account nor do I care to make one just for one edit.
16:01
<annevk>
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/forms.html#concept-form-submit is the submission algorithm
16:01
<annevk>
Which uses the link I gave to determine what elements to construct form data from
16:01
<Garbee>
Sweet, thank you for the help!
16:01
<annevk>
WPD is still alive?
16:01
annevk
thought people gave up on that
16:02
<Garbee>
People just forget about it apparently.
16:02
<Garbee>
I talk about in in rooms from time-to-time, and there is always someone who doesn't know what it is. Then you tell them, and they are amazed. Three weeks later, oh they've forgotten again.
16:06
<annevk>
It would be nice if StartSSL just gave me a domain if they already verified an allowed email for the domain
19:19
<annevk>
mathiasbynens: they're sending the letter tomorrow, but no idea whether it needs to come from the US or Isreal or how long that'll take, I guess 5-10 business days...
19:20
<mathiasbynens>
annevk: gah
19:48
<annevk>
mathiasbynens: let's blame it on Orange for not giving me a proper contract or not sending me a bill in time
19:48
<annevk>
mathiasbynens: damn operators