| 03:42 | <zewt_> | middle-clicking links on amazon, opening in same tab because it's not a real link; sad when even Amazon fucks up the basics |
| 03:42 | <zewt_> | particularly sad because sites like amazon set the standards, so lots of other sites will use it to justify the same screwups |
| 08:43 | <zcorpan> | mathiasbynens: hmmm. http://dabblet.com/gist/69fee57c26b73996b53f the JS misdetects chrome/opera for me. not sure why |
| 08:44 | <mathiasbynens> | zcorpan: you mean the `var html = document.documentElement; document.body.innerHTML = 'rebeccapurple ' + (getComputedStyle(html).backgroundColor === 'rgb(102, 51, 153)'? '<strong>is</strong> supported!' : 'is not supported :(')`? |
| 08:45 | <zcorpan> | mathiasbynens: right |
| 08:45 | <mathiasbynens> | zcorpan: hmm, works for me. you may want to ask @leaverou as it’s her demo |
| 08:46 | <mathiasbynens> | tested in Opera 26.0.1656.32 & Chrome 39.0.2171.71 (64-bit) on OS X |
| 09:03 | <zcorpan> | mathiasbynens: huh. now it works for me. when i tested previously it said "not supported" in both opera and chrome (but the background was purple) |
| 09:05 | <zcorpan> | running in a private window it shows as not supported again. reloading makes it work |
| 09:15 | <mathiasbynens> | woah, weird |
| 15:05 | <annevk> | Can someone reach out to https://twitter.com/arslancb/status/539891265161015296 please? |
| 15:06 | <foolip> | annevk: do you understand the request? |
| 15:06 | <annevk> | foolip: I guess I can reply myself |
| 15:06 | <foolip> | annevk: I did too :) |
| 15:07 | <annevk> | cool :-) |
| 15:18 | <elixir876> | guys i need a job tip |
| 15:18 | <elixir876> | i have an offer and i don't know what to do |
| 16:59 | <annevk> | The amount of URL politics emails :-( |
| 16:59 | <rubys> | annevk: tell me about it. |
| 17:00 | <rubys> | annevk: meanwhile, I did have a good call with wseltzer. I do not believe the member agreement is a problem, and she will look into the invited expert agreement issue. |
| 17:15 | <Domenic> | annevk: haha nice reply to www-tag |
| 17:18 | <tantek> | Domenic: URL? |
| 17:19 | <Ms2ger> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/latest |
| 17:19 | <Domenic> | tantek: thread starts at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2014Dec/0005.html, only a few short replies to get to the good stuff |
| 17:19 | <tantek> | Ms2ger - I see you like support forums |
| 17:19 | <Ms2ger> | I do |
| 17:41 | <roc> | Ms2ger: are you at the Mozilla meeting in Portland? |
| 17:41 | <Domenic> | Rubys: why is the copy hosted on w3ctag? At the last f2f the TAG agreed to abandon url copying as a work item. |
| 17:41 | <Ms2ger> | roc, I'm not, sadly |
| 17:41 | <Ms2ger> | Domenic, host everything everywhere! |
| 17:42 | <rubys> | Domenic: ask Daniel Appelquist. |
| 17:43 | <rubys> | Ms2ger: my goal is to work with everybody. I plan to meet with the W3C Director in 1Q 2015 and challenge the need for a w3c copy. |
| 17:43 | <rubys> | I'd like that discussion to be based on facts, not fears. |
| 17:44 | <Domenic> | rubys: in that case the answer is "because we didn't delete it yet"… |
| 17:44 | <rubys> | Domenic: no. Since the TAG decision, I talked to Daniel. He added me to that repository for exactly this purpose. |
| 17:45 | <Domenic> | Oh :/ |
| 17:45 | <Domenic> | Ms2ger: I think the goal is to beat canvas for total number of distinct copies |
| 17:53 | <gsnedders> | who's up for hand-executing the parser spec going bug hunting? because I don't have all the table and foreign content stuff in my head atm, and this is both |
| 17:53 | <gsnedders> | your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to parse "<table><th><math><td></tr>" and find out if any of the spec's notes are wrong |
| 18:01 | <gsnedders> | ok, this is a bug in Gumbo I'm pretty sure |
| 18:07 | <Ms2ger> | gsnedders, a degree?! |
| 18:13 | <Ms2ger> | TabAtkins, I've been trying to get us to write a table layout spec for as long as I've been involved with Servo :) |
| 18:13 | <TabAtkins> | I'm going to pretend that continuing to yell at people will eventually work. |
| 18:14 | <rubys> | TabAtkins: is there a way to say "none" for Level in bikeshed metadata? |
| 18:14 | <TabAtkins> | https://github.com/tabatkins/bikeshed/pull/264 |
| 18:15 | <TabAtkins> | Some statuses are unlevelled, but all the W3Cish statuses require a level currently. |
| 18:15 | <TabAtkins> | Can you use one of the unlevelled statuses, or do you need a non-leveled W3C status? And if you do, do you really think there won't be a v2? |
| 18:16 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: you're working on table layout? Bless you |
| 18:16 | <rubys> | TabAtkins: I added comments to that pull request; for all I know, the W3C URL Standard won't live beyond 1Q2015. |
| 18:17 | <Ms2ger> | annevk, I'm shouting at people who do |
| 18:17 | <annevk> | This morning I saw some of the work smontagu has done on vertical layout, it looks really great |
| 18:17 | <annevk> | And apparently you can play with in Nightly by flipping a pref |
| 18:17 | <Ms2ger> | I hear such things |
| 18:17 | <gsnedders> | Ms2ger: a whole degree! |
| 18:18 | <Ms2ger> | gsnedders, congratulations! |
| 18:18 | <rubys> | TabAtkins: meanwhile, I have a near term need. I actually had briefly patched bikeshed myself (differently, but the same result). |
| 18:19 | <TabAtkins> | rubys: Oh, that pubrules error making you request this isn't an issue with the version at all, it's an issue with pubrules having a broken "looks like a date" regex. Not actually a pubrules violation. |
| 18:20 | <rubys> | TabAtkins: ok. I'll push back. |
| 18:21 | <TabAtkins> | For publishing in the W3C, you should be following CSSWG practice - publish under url-1, and simultaneously have a 302 redirect from url to url-1. |
| 18:21 | <TabAtkins> | rubys: Yeah, we run into that violation constantly when publishing in the CSSWG. |
| 18:21 | <rubys> | I'll let PLH decide. He clearly is up-to-speed on what CSS does. |
| 18:23 | <TabAtkins> | rubys: Don't let him "decide" without prompting - we have to remind the pub team every single time, or else they publish under something random. |
| 18:23 | <rubys> | TabAtkins: gotcha. I will follow up. |
| 18:24 | <TabAtkins> | Hm, wondering why the copyright is flagging a markup difference. You doing that manually? |
| 18:28 | <rubys> | TabAtkins: got confirmation with PLH that the '-1' and 302 redirect is not a problem. |
| 18:28 | <rubys> | TabAtkins: yes, I have a copyright.include. See https://github.com/w3ctag/url/tree/develop |
| 18:28 | <TabAtkins> | Didn't think it would be. ^_^ |
| 18:29 | <TabAtkins> | Ah, kk. Just normalize it to the pubrules markup to make it shut up on that error. |
| 18:29 | <TabAtkins> | And the namespace thing is a constant error. It's a bug in pubrules, basically. |
| 18:47 | <rubys> | TabAtkins: there is a new pubrules implementation that will roll out in January |
| 18:48 | <TabAtkins> | Yeah, been tracking it somewhat. |
| 18:48 | <rubys> | TabAtkins: it is written in JS, not XSLT. And will accept pull requests. :-) |
| 18:48 | <TabAtkins> | It's listed on https://wiki.csswg.org/spec/publish as something to play with. |
| 19:05 | <zcorpan> | wouldn't it be funny if chrome started respecting <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1"/> ? |
| 19:07 | <TabAtkins> | No. |
| 19:07 | <Ms2ger> | No. |
| 19:45 | <terinjokes> | TabAtkins: thanks for the merge. strange, indeed, but at least the images are now on a CDN |
| 19:52 | <TabAtkins> | np, thanks for the PR |
| 21:28 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: http://caniuse.com/#feat=svg-img uses id="embedded-content-0" |
| 21:34 | <Hixie> | anyone got a non-snarky name for x-ua-compatible? |
| 21:35 | <caitp> | i'm not sure I have a non-snarky name for anything :( |
| 21:35 | <annevk> | Hixie: sounds like about:legacy-compat |
| 21:36 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 21:36 | <Hixie> | i don't understand why it's necessary |
| 21:36 | <Hixie> | does IE really not default to standards mode? |
| 21:37 | <TabAtkins> | Hixie: It does, sometimes, unless you're in a certain Zone, or your site is on certain blacklists, or etc |
| 21:38 | <TabAtkins> | And x-ua-compatible overrides those heuristics. |
| 21:38 | <TabAtkins> | Except when it doesn't. |
| 21:38 | <Hixie> | jesus wept |
| 21:38 | <Hixie> | i'm looking at the documentation now |
| 21:38 | <Hixie> | what manner of hell has the IE team wrought upon themselves |
| 21:39 | <TabAtkins> | They're perfectly aware of what hell they're experiencing. They just weren't willing to move to a fast auto-update model, which minimizes the pain. |
| 21:39 | <TabAtkins> | At least, not at the time. |
| 21:39 | <Hixie> | well i imagine they're aware of it, yes |
| 21:39 | <caitp> | i totally didn't need the "jesus wept" imagery in my head right now :'( --- but I think they're doing a good job of doing things better now |
| 21:39 | <TabAtkins> | So "let's just ship all five versions of our browsers at once" inexplicably became the sanest answer left. |
| 21:41 | <Hixie> | <sarcasm> i wonder if anyone predicted this mess back when they first suggested the whole idea </sarcasm> |
| 21:41 | <gsnedders> | https://html5.org/r/8869 is empty? |
| 21:42 | <Hixie> | odd |
| 21:45 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: I got confused at <sarcasm>, but I took a deep breath at the end so I'm okay now. |
| 21:46 | <Hixie> | oh apparently i didn't save the file before the last checkin, d'oh |
| 21:54 | <annevk> | Hixie: IE defaults to standards mode now, but has not always done that |
| 21:54 | <annevk> | Ah you guys covered that |
| 21:54 | <annevk> | I think the commit looks good |
| 22:00 | <Hixie> | does hallvord's spec define onpaste and co? |
| 22:02 | <annevk> | Hixie: it defines that there's a paste event |
| 22:02 | <annevk> | Hixie: it doesn't define the corresponding event handler |
| 22:02 | <annevk> | Hixie: http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/clipops/clipops.html |
| 22:03 | <Hixie> | where do i file bugs on this spec |
| 22:03 | <Hixie> | it fires beforecopy without saying what the target is |
| 22:04 | <Hixie> | and uses "context" without saying what it means :-( |
| 22:13 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: bugzilla |
| 22:14 | <MikeSmith> | first component at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=WebAppsWG |
| 22:15 | <Hixie> | too late, i mailed him |
| 22:15 | <Hixie> | :-) |
| 22:15 | <MikeSmith> | that works too |
| 22:16 | <MikeSmith> | hallvord should hang around on IRC more |
| 22:16 | <MikeSmith> | I know he's capable because when I was at opera I could get ahold of him on opera irc |
| 22:17 | <Hixie> | heh |
| 22:26 | <Ms2ger> | He's on moznet at times |
| 22:30 | MikeSmith | sets up hallvors-has-joined-#developers notifier in his irssi |
| 23:01 | <tantek> | MikeSmith: Hey this is out of date - can you update? http://www.w3.org/2010/web-notifications/ (e.g. group is now closed right? and annevk quit the group so it is without chair right?) |
| 23:16 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: not closed |
| 23:33 | <annevk> | Domenic: I asked some people to review Streams |
| 23:33 | <Domenic> | annevk: awesome, thanks |
| 23:33 | <annevk> | Domenic: the problem they have is that since it's not using IDL, they have to understand all of ES6 to know the semantics |
| 23:34 | <Domenic> | hmm |
| 23:34 | <annevk> | Domenic: e.g. what does stringifying the prototype return? |
| 23:34 | <Domenic> | I don't really use any ES6 |
| 23:34 | <Domenic> | The same thing it does for a normal JS class |
| 23:34 | <annevk> | Domenic: is that the same as e.g. document.__proto__? |
| 23:34 | <Domenic> | I don't really understand the question |
| 23:34 | <annevk> | Domenic: so one question was whether this can be implemented in terms of IDL |
| 23:35 | <Domenic> | Is the question what does String(WritableStream.prototype) return? |
| 23:35 | <Domenic> | I imagine just like promises it can be implemented in terms of IDL by using lots of any's and such |
| 23:35 | <Domenic> | without inheritance support, etc. etc. |
| 23:35 | <annevk> | Domenic: and would it be compliant? |
| 23:35 | <Domenic> | I guess not, in minor ways |
| 23:36 | <Domenic> | well, the only one i can think of is that i don't specify a toStringTag |
| 23:36 | <Domenic> | which is easily fixed |
| 23:37 | <Domenic> | it would be noncompliant in that i assume gecko's idl generator doesn't allow subclassing |
| 23:37 | <Domenic> | but you guys have the same problem with promises |
| 23:38 | <annevk> | Domenic: well IDL doesn't do subclassing in general |
| 23:38 | <annevk> | Domenic: (yet) |
| 23:38 | <Domenic> | right |
| 23:39 | <annevk> | Domenic: anyway, the feedback I get is that Streams is hard to digest without IDL |
| 23:39 | <annevk> | Domenic: not sure if the JS team has the bandwidth |
| 23:39 | <Domenic> | i could write up a non-normative gist of some IDL if that would help |
| 23:39 | <annevk> | Domenic: or if we necessarily want to implement it there |
| 23:39 | <smaug____> | Domenic: one question I have, why you don't want to use webidl? |
| 23:39 | <Domenic> | smaug____: it is a mismatch with various JS semantics I am using |
| 23:39 | <smaug____> | why to use harder to read ecma-style spec language |
| 23:39 | <smaug____> | hmm |
| 23:40 | <smaug____> | like what? |
| 23:40 | <Domenic> | smaug____: the spec language the algorithm steps are specced in is a separate issue from how the interface is defined though |
| 23:41 | <Domenic> | smaug____: parameter destructuring. delaying conversions until use instead of checking up front. allowing subclassing :P. I think default arguments are fixed now, but they weren't when I started. |
| 23:41 | <Domenic> | (and browsers don't implement the fix yet last I checked) |
| 23:43 | <smaug____> | Domenic: why you need to use features not defined in webidl? |
| 23:44 | <Domenic> | smaug____: makes it easier to spec something that behaves like a real JS object. (as I said, you can get away with using WebIDL if you use a lot of `any`s.) |
| 23:44 | <Domenic> | (meaning, "need" is not totally accurate.) |