| 00:47 | <TabAtkins> | annevk: I did another 2k lines of DOM today. 2500 left, which I'll do Tue or Wed. After that is some cleanup, then I'm finally done. |
| 00:57 | <caitp-> | but you know it never really ends |
| 01:13 | <TabAtkins> | caitp-: Well, *my* part ends, since I'm just doing a preprocesser conversion. |
| 01:18 | <TabAtkins> | Hixie: Discovery API is about letting a page discover other servers on the same local network that want to be talked to, like a local music server. |
| 01:18 | <TabAtkins> | As long as the server can expose an HTTP endpoint and respond to certain standardized discovery protocols, the webpage can talk to it with that API. |
| 01:21 | <tantek> | TabAtkins: WSDL 2.0? |
| 01:21 | <caitp-> | and of course everything on the IOT will want to get in on that, so your refridgerator, calendar, toaster, oven, microwave, vacuum cleaner, tv, raido and cellphone will be sharing info with random websites |
| 01:21 | <TabAtkins> | tantek: Dunno details/history, just summarizing the spec. ^_^ |
| 01:22 | <caitp-> | advertisers will know when you're running out of dishsoap and be able to target their specific brand right at you, it will be amazing |
| 01:27 | <tantek> | TabAtkins: just the last time someone tried to do "server can expose an HTTP endpoint and respond to certain standardized discovery protocols", we ended up with WS-Deathstar |
| 01:27 | <tantek> | or perhaps that was the *first time* |
| 01:28 | <tantek> | "Web Intents" may have been the latest version of that kind of discovery abstraction disaster. |
| 01:28 | <tantek> | I wish you better luck. |
| 01:28 | <TabAtkins> | I mean, you can layer whatever you want on top of it; you've just got an open communications channel. |
| 01:28 | <tantek> | exactly what they both said |
| 01:28 | <tantek> | classic architecture astronomy |
| 01:29 | <caitp-> | it's a cool idea, but sec and privacy stuff needs to be at the forefront of anything like that imo |
| 01:40 | <zewt> | TabAtkins: sounds useful, but also like something that'll get mired in twenty layers of security mess |
| 01:40 | <TabAtkins> | heh, maybe. I don't have a dog in the fight; like I said, I was just summarizing the spec. |
| 01:42 | <tantek> | who's writing it? |
| 01:44 | <TabAtkins> | http://www.w3.org/TR/discovery-api/ |
| 01:44 | <botie> | http://www.w3.org/TR/discovery-api/ is an example of what i feel is a near ideal extensible api, which makes few assumptions. acctually, i think it'd be a great consumer for a myBroadcastChannel.makeDiscoverable()! |
| 01:44 | <zewt> | is botie a bot that says "%s is an example of what i feel is a near ideal extensible api, which makes few assumptions. acctually, i think it'd be a great consumer for a myBroadcastChannel.makeDiscoverable()!" when someone pastes a url |
| 01:45 | <tantek> | lol instead of WSDL we get NSDL. |
| 01:46 | <tantek> | <s:Envelope s:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/";... |
| 01:47 | <tantek> | A-HA it *IS* WSDL 2.0 |
| 01:47 | <tantek> | and untouched in > 1 yr (yes Editor's draft is 2 days *older* than TR draft) |
| 01:50 | <caitp-> | that doesn't necessarily mean much |
| 01:50 | <tantek> | true |
| 01:50 | <zewt> | maybe it's already perfect |
| 01:51 | <zewt> | like dom2 |
| 02:05 | <TabAtkins> | zewt: botie discovers "definitions" in what people say; statements of the form "X is Y" teach it something. |
| 02:05 | <TabAtkins> | zewt: Then it regurgitates these definitions when you trigger it. |
| 02:08 | <zewt> | megahals are pretty early-2000s, heh |
| 03:37 | <MikeSmith> | zewt: botie is a bot I run here for people to leave messages for other people who are away |
| 03:37 | <MikeSmith> | like Memoserv except more lightweight |
| 03:38 | <MikeSmith> | botie, inform foo hey did you finish writing that draft yet |
| 03:38 | <botie> | will do |
| 03:39 | <MikeSmith> | botie, inform lalslal hey did you finish writing that draft yet |
| 03:39 | <botie> | will do |
| 03:39 | <caitp-> | is it pronounced bow-tie or bottie? |
| 03:40 | <botie> | lalslal, at 2015-03-02 03:39 UTC, MikeSmith said: hey did you finish writing that draft yet |
| 03:40 | <MikeSmith> | caitp-: bow-tie I guess |
| 03:40 | <MikeSmith> | I didn't name it |
| 03:40 | <MikeSmith> | a guy from the w3c systems team did |
| 03:41 | <caitp-> | oh |
| 03:42 | <MikeSmith> | anyway the other side-effect thing it does is, any time somebody say "url is y" it adds it to a db it keeps |
| 03:43 | <MikeSmith> | I could turn that feature off but it mostly seems to not be annoying |
| 03:58 | <MikeSmith> | botie: sync handlers? |
| 03:58 | <botie> | mikesmith: i don't know |
| 03:58 | <MikeSmith> | botie: spacer? |
| 03:58 | <botie> | spacer are the root of all evil. |
| 04:00 | <MikeSmith> | botie: scoped styles? |
| 04:00 | <botie> | bugger all, i dunno, mikesmith |
| 04:00 | <MikeSmith> | botie: styles? |
| 04:00 | <botie> | i haven't a clue, mikesmith |
| 04:00 | <MikeSmith> | botie: scoped_styles? |
| 04:00 | <botie> | i don't know, mikesmith |
| 05:43 | <karanlyons> | Hey, so the History API: Why does popstate fire *after* the browser changes state, why is there no corresponding prepop event, why does the browser scroll in a way that is entirely unpreventable and why is the entire history array completely unreadable, even entries that are on the same hostname? |
| 05:44 | <karanlyons> | Because all those things make it incredibly frustrating to the point of useless for some very common applications (AJAXy pages and single page site type deals), and I can't for the life of me understand how this is what we ended up with. |
| 05:44 | <caitp-> | why you wanna break the back button |
| 05:44 | <karanlyons> | Who says I want to break it? |
| 05:45 | <karanlyons> | Let's say you have a site where content is loaded in dynamically, affecting the page height. Now the browser's scrolling to the wrong page on any navigation. |
| 05:46 | <karanlyons> | I should clarify: pushstate, replacestate, being able to store state along with location data, this is all awesome. |
| 05:47 | <karanlyons> | But the browser scrolling being unpreventable and the developer being unable to see anything at all about the history of a session beyond the current frame (even being unable to see frames that are on their own hostname) create so many problems. |
| 05:49 | <karanlyons> | The closest you can get to solving the scroll issue (without doing things like faking content height completely and trying to reimplement scrolling in a way that still feels native, which people actually have to do right now) results in a one frame flash as the browser is gonna scroll to where it thinks the user wants to be no matter what, even if the developer knows better. |
| 05:50 | <caitp-> | the history api is bungled for all sorts of reasons, but that doesn't mean it should be bungled even more |
| 05:51 | <karanlyons> | This would bungle it way less. |
| 05:51 | <karanlyons> | Also, I'm not bringing up anything that I haven't also found in long lived bug reports. |
| 05:52 | <karanlyons> | (I'm also very frustrated right now, as I'm fighting the browser to provide a good UX because the assumptions the history API makes right now just don't hold true for a lot of modern sites. And every workaround is just that: a workaround with some unavoidable *other* UX issue.) |
| 13:23 | <beverloo> | TabAtkins, thanks; I'm already well on my way :) it's a nice format |
| 13:24 | <annevk> | TabAtkins: thanks for the update |
| 14:00 | <Ms2ger> | I wonder if anyone still uses ismap |
| 14:11 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: $ grep -ri ismap dataset | wc -l # 61 |
| 14:11 | <Ms2ger> | Aw |
| 14:12 | <darobin> | for that dataset, that's about 0.7% |
| 14:13 | <darobin> | this puzzles me tbh, when I started ismap was already considered a bad idea, it was usually listed with isindex and such |
| 14:14 | <zcorpan_> | annevk: is the "See it live: HTML Standard." thing in the repo? i can't find it https://github.com/whatwg/web-apps-tracker/search?utf8=✓&q=see+it+live |
| 14:16 | <zcorpan_> | annevk: (i wanted to add a link to respimg's changelog) |
| 14:20 | <annevk> | zcorpan_: hmm dunno |
| 14:20 | <annevk> | zcorpan_: guess not |
| 14:20 | <annevk> | zcorpan_: let me copy the latest |
| 14:20 | <zcorpan_> | annevk: ok thx |
| 14:22 | <annevk> | zcorpan_: done |
| 14:24 | <zcorpan_> | ty |
| 14:29 | <zcorpan_> | annevk: r? https://github.com/whatwg/web-apps-tracker/pull/1 |
| 14:30 | <annevk> | zcorpan_: single paragraph for "see other links" would be better |
| 14:31 | <zcorpan_> | annevk: ok, just remove the <p>? |
| 14:32 | <annevk> | yeah I guess |
| 14:32 | <zcorpan_> | done |
| 15:28 | <zcorpan_> | Ms2ger: 99% was better than anticipated. it's certainly different compared to any other chocolate, but i kinda like it |
| 15:28 | <Ms2ger> | \o/ |