| 02:28 | <JonathanNeal> | Good evening! |
| 07:58 | <annevk> | Domenic: philipj: HTML in various places has algorithms that seemingly only take a single argument, when you read further you notice it has various <dfn>'d arguments and other constructs that are not explicit from the calling site |
| 07:59 | <annevk> | Domenic: philipj: I think generally we want to move away from those patterns right in favor of having a call site that doesn't hide the complexity of the algorithm? |
| 07:59 | <annevk> | Domenic: philipj: "navigate" in particular is extremely guilty of this |
| 07:59 | <philipj> | annevk: in general I would agree, do you have an example? |
| 07:59 | <philipj> | ok, I haven't ever read those algorithms I think |
| 08:00 | <annevk> | Domenic: philipj: I don't really plan on fixing this as part of the Fetch rewrite, mind you, but I just wanted to know whether we're on the same line |
| 08:01 | <Ms2ger> | Yeah, that would be nice |
| 08:01 | <annevk> | philipj: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/browsers.html#navigate only takes "a new resource", but then further down it asks if "exceptions enabled" is set, whether "explicit self-navigation override" is set, etc. |
| 08:01 | <Ms2ger> | But those should probably use named arguments, maybe using a <dl> in the caller |
| 08:01 | <philipj> | There are media element algorithms which talk about ending the algorithm which invoked the sub-algorithms, which is also a bit odd |
| 08:01 | <annevk> | philipj: and navigate of course also takes a target browsing context and a source browsing context |
| 08:02 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: yeah, maybe, not sure yet |
| 08:02 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: perhaps a "record" |
| 08:02 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: ideally IDL was maintained and those maintaining figured out the conventions for everyone to use |
| 08:03 | <Ms2ger> | There's also some algorithm that says "If this was called by the click() method..." |
| 08:04 | <annevk> | Yeah, I'd generally favor making all that explicit myself, without having algorithms grab global or English-language state |
| 08:06 | <philipj> | annevk: fully agreed in principle, but in some specific cases trying to fix it might reveal something interesting, who knows |
| 08:10 | <Ms2ger> | philipj, even better :) |
| 08:28 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: *affect |
| 08:31 | <Ms2ger> | Good morning to you too |
| 08:45 | <JakeA> | annevk: I assume fetch doesn't support file:// urls, but can't find the failure point in the spec |
| 08:46 | <JakeA> | oh wait yes I can |
| 08:46 | <JakeA> | sorrrrrry |
| 08:52 | <annevk> | JakeA: it kinda does and doesn't |
| 09:45 | <annevk> | philipj: MikeSmith suggested not committing anything without PR anymore |
| 09:46 | <annevk> | philipj: oh never mind, I missed something |
| 09:47 | <philipj> | annevk: there was a PR for the most recent thing, but not "Add missing newline to link-fixup.js" last week if that's what you mean |
| 09:48 | <annevk> | philipj: I meant the most recent thing |
| 09:48 | <annevk> | philipj: and I forgot to look first |
| 09:48 | <philipj> | then I plead not guilty :) |
| 09:48 | <philipj> | no problem |
| 09:49 | annevk | goes back to Fetch |
| 12:17 | <annevk> | Oh my, "A Somewhat Critical View of SOP" |
| 12:17 | <annevk> | Perhaps public-webappsec is no longer useful either given the existence of GitHub... |
| 12:51 | zcorpan_ | looks at https://whatwg.org/issues/ |
| 12:54 | <annevk> | zcorpan_: Hixie was going to look into a way to share that data directly with the other editors somehow |
| 13:01 | <Ms2ger> | That data? |
| 13:02 | <Ms2ger> | Oh, that |
| 13:02 | Ms2ger | misread the url |
| 13:02 | <ato> | When an element is contenteditable or a document is in designMode, is there a way to get its original, default value? |
| 13:03 | <annevk> | ato: it? |
| 13:04 | <annevk> | ato: oh, https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/undomanager/raw-file/tip/undomanager.html hasn't really worked out thus far |
| 13:04 | <annevk> | ato: you'd have to keep track yourself using mutation observers |
| 13:05 | <mkwst> | annevk: I'm trying to move interesting conversations to GitHub. The mailing list is getting too large to get work done. |
| 13:05 | <mkwst> | re:webappsec |
| 13:05 | <ato> | annevk: Say I have a <p contenteditable> and change its textContent. Is there an attribute, like <input>’s default value, that lets me get p’s text content before it was changed? |
| 13:05 | <ato> | annevk: I was looking at https://w3c.github.io/editing/contentEditable.html and https://w3c.github.io/editing/contentEditableEvents.html which HTML references. |
| 13:06 | <annevk> | ato: there's no such thing |
| 13:07 | <ato> | Okay. I imagine because changing an editable element that isn’t plaintext-only and storing its original subtree would be quite difficult. |
| 13:38 | <zcorpan_> | gsnedders: r'ed https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/5798 |
| 13:40 | <zcorpan_> | ato: there was something called UndoManager or some such, but i don't know if that caught on or what it let you do exactly |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | I think only Gecko implemented it |
| 13:40 | <Ms2ger> | Not sure if it's still around |
| 13:43 | <zcorpan_> | https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/undomanager/raw-file/tip/undomanager.html |
| 13:44 | annevk | mentioned that earlier |
| 13:48 | <zcorpan_> | Ms2ger: heh, didn't notice https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/5775 was already merged |
| 13:50 | <Ms2ger> | zcorpan_, that tends to happen when the branch is called something like sync_840fcde37e45439b28d28c0bf57b58ab8ab85162 :) |
| 14:02 | <zcorpan_> | annevk: Domenic: r? https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/d789a554?review=5799 (i see your names in the blog post, so) |
| 14:04 | <annevk> | zcorpan_: blog post? |
| 14:04 | <zcorpan_> | https://jakearchibald.com/2015/tasks-microtasks-queues-and-schedules/ |
| 14:05 | <ato> | annevk, zcorpan_: Thanks both (-: |
| 14:09 | <annevk> | zcorpan_: r+ |
| 14:10 | <zcorpan_> | thx |
| 14:12 | <zcorpan_> | do you guys still have interns? i recall automating tests with WebDriver is something some opera interns did a few years ago |
| 14:13 | <Ms2ger> | Would be nice to do once we have webdriver infra |
| 14:15 | <jgraham> | Well it would be nice to get an intern to write the webdriver infrastructure. Or at least start it |
| 14:15 | <jgraham> | Guess I could have proposed that as an Outreachy project or something. |
| 14:16 | <Ms2ger> | We should track those intern ideas somewhere |
| 14:16 | <Ms2ger> | Issues in the wpt repo? |
| 14:17 | <jgraham> | Sure, why not |
| 14:18 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger: Create a label like size:project or something? |
| 14:18 | <jgraham> | (seems not quite orthogonal to difficulty, mind you) |
| 14:25 | zcorpan_ | wonders if http://w3c-test.org/html/semantics/forms/constraints/form-validation-validity-tooLong.html is wrong |
| 14:26 | <zcorpan_> | seems so |
| 14:27 | <zcorpan_> | https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/issues/2152 |
| 14:41 | <zcorpan_> | jgraham: hmm, i can't merge in w3c/testharness.js |
| 14:42 | <zcorpan_> | https://github.com/w3c/testharness.js/pull/147 is reviewed, not merged |
| 14:43 | <Ms2ger> | Try again |
| 14:44 | <jgraham> | Well it would be nice to squash the PR too |
| 14:44 | <Ms2ger> | TIL about https://github.com/w3c/rdf-tests |
| 14:49 | <zcorpan_> | https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2159 has no critic link |
| 14:50 | <zcorpan_> | Ms2ger: thanks |
| 14:51 | <Ms2ger> | Np |
| 14:55 | <zcorpan_> | MikeSmith: r? https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/5796 |
| 14:55 | <zcorpan_> | MikeSmith: seems v.nu doesn't think it's valid |
| 14:56 | zcorpan_ | was confused until he noticed "conformance-checker" in the path |
| 15:09 | <gsnedders> | zcorpan_: takk |
| 15:25 | <schalkneethling> | annevk: hi! |
| 15:29 | <schalkneethling> | apologies for hampering on about the video element and crossorigin ;) but, I just wanted to double check with you. You mentioned the other day that if you are loading content from an external resource using the video element, you always have to use the crossorigin attribute. Also, there is no connection between it and the CSP so, does this mean that even if the resource sends CORS headers back, you still need the crossorigin attrib |
| 15:33 | <schalkneethling> | annevk: ^^ |
| 15:41 | <zcorpan_> | schalkneethling: missing " *and* you want to access the video data e.g. in a <canvas>" -- if you just want it to play, you don't need crossorigin="" |
| 15:45 | <zcorpan_> | schalkneethling: if you omit the crossorigin attribute, the browser does a regular request and ignores any CORS headers in the response. if you use the attribute, the response must have the right CORS headers or the browser will reject the response |
| 15:46 | <zcorpan_> | schalkneethling: without crossorigin="", if the response is not same-origin, you can paint it on a canvas but it will taint the canvas such that read operations will start throwing |
| 15:55 | <schalkneethling> | zcorpan_: thanks a ton for the information |
| 16:01 | <zcorpan_> | np |
| 16:03 | <zcorpan_> | schalkneethling: <video><track src> does however need the crossorigin attribute (on the video element) to load cross-origin tracks at all |
| 16:03 | <schalkneethling> | ah, thanks. Will make a note of that |
| 16:21 | <MikeSmith> | botie, inform zcorpan_ about https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/5796 (SVG thing) yeah I've spoken with the commenter and I need to also fix the bug in the checker code |
| 16:21 | <botie> | will do |
| 16:21 | <MikeSmith> | botie, inform zcorpan about https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/5796 (SVG thing) yeah I've spoken with the commenter and I need to also fix the bug in the checker code |
| 16:21 | <botie> | will do |
| 16:27 | <ccardona-work> | Good morning/afternoon/evening all |
| 16:27 | <MikeSmith> | oorale ccardona-work |
| 16:28 | <JakeA> | Domenic: do you have that progress events example to hand? The streams one |
| 16:28 | <Domenic> | JakeA: https://gist.github.com/domenic/95e689d0be5e24fb08ec |
| 16:29 | <JakeA> | Cheers! |
| 16:29 | <ccardona-work> | ✌🏽MikeSmith |
| 16:29 | <ccardona-work> | o/ MikeSmith |
| 17:14 | <botie> | zcorpan, at 2015-09-14 16:21 UTC, MikeSmith said: about https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/5796 (SVG thing) yeah I've spoken with the commenter and I need to also fix the bug in the checker code |
| 17:33 | <Domenic> | hober: sent you an invite to the html team on GitHub so we can assign issues to you. |
| 18:25 | <MikeSmith> | hober: thanks for the remove-wget change |
| 18:25 | <MikeSmith> | Domenic & hober I'm working on the build script further and will have something to test later today |
| 18:26 | <MikeSmith> | for the line-numbers issue plus other things that came up during review |
| 18:26 | <Domenic> | \o/ |
| 18:37 | <TabAtkins> | annevk: I *strongly* agree with the "put all the arguments up front so it's clear how to invoke the algorithm" position. |
| 18:51 | <Krinkle> | Ugh, so apparently in Safari, doing !window.performance -> window.performance = [], !performance.mark -> performance.mark = function () {}; Doesn't work. About 4/10 page loads it remains undefined. |
| 18:51 | <Krinkle> | {} *, not [] |
| 18:52 | <Krinkle> | Even on my local machine, it's undefined one page load, defined the next. |
| 18:52 | <Krinkle> | Making no sense whatsoever. https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T112287#1638614 |
| 20:34 | <JonathanNeal> | TabAtkins: I expect to have the PostCSS transpiler for CSS nesting complete tonight. I’ll give it a playground so I can generate examples and maybe then you can tell me if I got anything wrong. :) |
| 20:34 | <JonathanNeal> | (not sure if transpiler is the right word, polyfill feels wrong) |
| 20:36 | <TabAtkins> | JonathanNeal: Cool. |
| 20:36 | <TabAtkins> | PostCSS is a preprocessor. Which is another word for "compiler", yeah. |
| 20:37 | <TabAtkins> | And "transpile" is a neologism for when we recognize the output language as a language in its own right, rather than just a machine language that humans aren't expected to look at. |
| 20:37 | <JonathanNeal> | Does that make babel a preprocessor? |
| 20:41 | <JonathanNeal> | I think I get it. Thanks for helping me understand the definitions. |
| 20:42 | JonathanNeal | goes back to writing the plugin for a preprocessor that transpiles CSS by a yet updated draft of a CSS module. |
| 20:42 | <JonathanNeal> | Well, I’ll write it later, at least. |