| 01:58 | <estellevw> | I was trying to test out invalid values for the `transition-property` property and it doesn’t seem to be following the spec in FF and Chrome, though i may be interpreting the spec incorrectly. |
| 01:58 | <estellevw> | http://codepen.io/estelle/pen/avZKEo |
| 01:58 | <estellevw> | “none, inherit, and initial are not permitted as items within a list of more that one identifier; any list that uses them is syntactically invalid." |
| 01:59 | <estellevw> | also, oddly, FF is animating the border-style property, but is doing so incorrectly, if that is at all possible |
| 02:08 | <TabAtkins> | estellevw: Correct, our handling of "none" is wrong - we should be rejecting that declaration. |
| 02:08 | <estellevw> | should i file a bug? |
| 02:08 | <estellevw> | and, any clue what’s going on with FF animating the border-style |
| 02:08 | <estellevw> | and ending up with the pre-value instead of the post value |
| 02:08 | <estellevw> | thanks btw |
| 02:14 | MikeSmith | waves to estellevw |
| 02:16 | <estellevw> | hi MikeSmith |
| 02:16 | <MikeSmith> | hey there |
| 02:17 | <MikeSmith> | estellevw: your participation in https://discourse.wicg.io/ would be very welcome (in case you've not already been there and I've not noticed) |
| 02:17 | <MikeSmith> | also, your help in the WICG as your time permits |
| 02:18 | <estellevw> | never heard of it. thanks. |
| 02:18 | <MikeSmith> | yeah it just got rolling recently |
| 02:18 | <estellevw> | cool |
| 02:19 | <estellevw> | aso, i am looking for a job if anyone knows a good fit that is hiring (or not hiring, but still wants me) |
| 02:24 | <estellevw> | MikeSmith: not sure if that’s a project you’re working on, but github oauth is not working in FF or chrome |
| 02:25 | <estellevw> | it did work in Safari 8.0.7 |
| 02:55 | <MikeSmith> | hi again estellevw |
| 02:55 | <MikeSmith> | sorry, got distracted |
| 02:55 | <MikeSmith> | estellevw: I got no clues about github oauth |
| 02:55 | <MikeSmith> | I thought you were working on your book |
| 02:56 | <MikeSmith> | I hope you've not had to abandon that for lack of funding |
| 02:57 | <estellevw> | TabAtkins: Safari 8, IE Edge 12, Firefox 42, Chrome 42 and Opera 31 all accept the transform-property with none in the comma separated list as valid, as if it were simply an unrecognized or non-animatable property |
| 02:57 | <estellevw> | i am working on my book(s), but only part time |
| 02:57 | <MikeSmith> | k |
| 02:57 | <estellevw> | books do not pay for my lifestyle. |
| 02:58 | <estellevw> | my lifestyle includes eating |
| 02:58 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 02:58 | <estellevw> | ;) |
| 02:58 | <MikeSmith> | yup |
| 02:58 | <estellevw> | i should write erotic thrillers. They sell better. But I find them less interesting. |
| 02:59 | <MikeSmith> | hahah |
| 03:00 | <MikeSmith> | maybe if you could become as famous as Chuck Tingle |
| 03:00 | <MikeSmith> | you need a kind of niche or angle for that market |
| 03:00 | <estellevw> | and if i were to write “50 shades of grey” it would be less than one page long, and all in hexidecimals |
| 03:00 | <MikeSmith> | hah |
| 03:03 | <MikeSmith> | little-known fact: Fifty Shades of Grey was actually written more than 10 years ago by Steven Shainberg, except that he called it "Secretary" and the main characters were James Spader and Maggie Gyllenhaal and it was roughly a gazillion times more interesting and original |
| 03:04 | <MikeSmith> | estellevw: anyway, as far as jobs go, not that I speak at all in any way for Mozilla, but knowing my friends there and the work they do, I can imagine Mozilla being a place where you'd find some interesting things to work on, and people to appreciate your work, and people whose work you can appreciate |
| 03:05 | <MikeSmith> | estellevw: you might want to chat up annevk or somebody about that |
| 03:06 | <MikeSmith> | and would love to have you at the W3C but don't know that W3C is able to open any new positions right now |
| 03:07 | <MikeSmith> | W3C/MIT might be able to, but I know we really can't right now in Japan, W3C/Keio |
| 03:08 | <MikeSmith> | all four of the W3C hosts have separate budgets, basically, and separate hiring processes and employement contracts, etc. |
| 03:08 | <estellevw> | that sounds fun. |
| 03:08 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 03:08 | <estellevw> | it’s hard to refer when offices are different cities, even more so with different budgets and policies |
| 03:09 | <MikeSmith> | yup |
| 03:12 | <estellevw> | TabAtkins: should the none/inherit/initial be treated as if the property weren’t declared at all or as the default ‘all’? |
| 03:18 | <estellevw> | should the none/inherit/initial be treated as if the property weren’t declared at all (so as if set to none) or as if set, but default to ‘all’? |
| 03:35 | <estellevw> | oops, i was oding all my w3 #css questioins in the freenode #whatwg IRC channel. sorry |
| 05:46 | <TabAtkins> | estellevw: Neither, it should be treated as illegal (for violating the grammar) and ignored. |
| 05:47 | <TabAtkins> | estellevw: But since everyone seems to accept it, it's probably better to treat the spec as being wrong. |
| 05:48 | <annevk> | slightlyoff: see the open issues, I think we've nearly resolved that one |
| 05:59 | <estellevw> | TabAtkins: 3 browsers treat it as `all` and 2 treat it as it is a non-animatable property |
| 06:17 | <annevk> | morning estellevw, curious where you'll end up going :-) |
| 07:44 | <philipj> | annevk: is there a repo for resources.github.com? I want to fix bikeshed.css |
| 07:44 | <annevk> | philipj: https://github.com/whatwg/resources.whatwg.org |
| 07:45 | <annevk> | philipj: wait, resources.github.com? |
| 07:45 | <annevk> | philipj: I guess you mean whatwg.org? |
| 07:45 | <philipj> | annevk: yeah, sorry |
| 07:45 | <annevk> | ok |
| 07:45 | <philipj> | it's https://resources.whatwg.org/bikeshed.css I need to poke at |
| 07:47 | <nox> | jgraham: Thanks for adding me to the html5lib's team, but my immediate needs would rather be a review on https://github.com/html5lib/html5lib-tests/pull/69. :P |
| 07:52 | Ms2ger | looks |
| 07:54 | <Ms2ger> | r+ |
| 08:02 | <annevk> | nox: ^ |
| 08:23 | <Ms2ger> | Innovations for the document object model[1] are presented, interfaces DOMFactoryResolver and DOMFactory, towards a document object model 5 (DOM5). The DOMFactoryResolver interface is utilized to obtain DOMFactory factories with which to create objects implementing Element. |
| 08:29 | <zcorpan> | Ms2ger: wat? |
| 08:30 | <Ms2ger> | Adam Sobieski |
| 08:49 | <Ms2ger> | philipj, looks like I have two LGTMs on github, okay if I ignore your critic comment? :) |
| 08:51 | <philipj> | Ms2ger: sure, if you don't mind testing the same thing twice |
| 08:52 | <philipj> | too much testing is usually not the problem |
| 08:53 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: pointer to DOM5? |
| 08:54 | <Ms2ger> | https://www.w3.org/community/argumentation/2015/09/21/document-object-model-5/ |
| 08:57 | <nox> | Factories. :( |
| 08:57 | <nox> | Nooooo |
| 08:57 | <annevk> | nox: none of that is even remotely likely to happen |
| 08:57 | nox | was scared. |
| 09:30 | <zcorpan> | you keep using that word, "utilize" |
| 09:32 | <zcorpan> | i have no clue what problem Adam is trying to solve |
| 10:03 | <zcorpan> | philipj: why does webvtt have this custom webhook thing? |
| 10:05 | <philipj> | zcorpan: it started out with troubles with respec, like the server where it's hosted being down and scrolling to the wrong position |
| 10:06 | <philipj> | also, occasional breaking changes, so I wanted to control when we got a new respec version, by having it as a submodule |
| 10:06 | <philipj> | finally, I'm not a fan of the initial FOUC of respec specs |
| 10:06 | <jgraham> | s/of the initial FOUC // ? |
| 10:07 | <zcorpan> | yeah i'm totally going to bikeshed webvtt |
| 10:07 | <philipj> | jgraham: heh, yeah, that would also be true :) |
| 10:07 | <philipj> | zcorpan: I would recommend that, yeah |
| 10:07 | <philipj> | jgraham: there is one or two things that I like about respec, but I can't remember what they were any more |
| 10:08 | <philipj> | oh right, that it doesn't ask you to type out a manual id for your sections, like Bikeshed does :) |
| 10:08 | <zcorpan> | i wonder what the state of the art is for having the spec published. i suppose it's not checking in to CVS |
| 10:09 | <philipj> | zcorpan: heh, if you want to move it to github.io or something, that would be nice |
| 10:10 | <zcorpan> | i don't really care where it is, but i don't fancy maintaining webhook |
| 10:12 | <philipj> | I'll keep it running until it breaks, so it's not urgent, but getting off that infrastructure sure would be nice |
| 10:28 | <annevk> | zcorpan: if you were to move it to WHATWG there'd be a webhook still, but I could maintain it |
| 10:30 | <zcorpan> | annevk: ok, thx. i wouldn't mind moving to whatwg personally but i don't know what the rest of the webvtt people think of it |
| 10:40 | <annevk> | mkwst: what's the latest on https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/issues/45? |
| 11:23 | <mkwst> | annevk: I guess that's taken care of by `client`? |
| 11:24 | <mkwst> | Or, I guess the `origin` attribute on the request (which derives from `client`)? |
| 11:28 | <mkwst> | annevk: Also, when you have a few minutes, I've refactored https://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/powerfulfeatures/ to put a flag on the settings object (for SharedWorkers, but it was simpler to just use it everywhere). https://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/powerfulfeatures/#framework and |
| 11:28 | <mkwst> | https://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/powerfulfeatures/#settings-object-flag are the parts that really changed. The rest just moved around. |
| 12:03 | <annevk> | mkwst: yeah, I think client takes care of it |
| 12:03 | <annevk> | mkwst: will look at Secure Contexts later |
| 12:06 | <mkwst> | I'll close out the issue. |
| 12:06 | <mkwst> | No rush on secure contexts. It's not going anywhere. |
| 12:14 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: should https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1922 be merged? |
| 12:16 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: no, that's waiting on me to make a different fix in the testtwf-website-srd docs |
| 12:16 | <MikeSmith> | which I will try to get soonish |
| 12:47 | <annevk> | mkwst: 3.1 step 1 doesn't make sense to me, I don't see why sandboxed content should not have a correct HTTPS state set |
| 12:48 | <mkwst> | HTTPS state is poorly defined. I don't think it's in HTML yet. I'm hedging my bets. :) |
| 12:49 | <annevk> | mkwst: well, but you are relying on it too |
| 12:49 | <mkwst> | Well, yes. |
| 12:49 | <annevk> | mkwst: this is the kind of thing that implementers hate... |
| 12:49 | <mkwst> | <-- implementer. |
| 12:49 | <annevk> | those that don't write the spec |
| 12:49 | <mkwst> | And yes, you're right. I hate it. So, are you going to integrate fetch with HTML in a way that makes it make sense? :) |
| 12:50 | <annevk> | well, https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27190 is still somewhat in an unclear state |
| 12:50 | <annevk> | but anyway, if that is fixed I don't think your algorithm would make sense per what I said above |
| 12:51 | <mkwst> | Assuming that https state is a thing that is well defined somewhere, dropping the unique origin bits is totally reasonable. |
| 12:51 | <mkwst> | Is that the only piece of the algorithm that doesn't make sense to you, or are you pointing to something deeper? |
| 12:53 | <annevk> | It also doesn't make sense as a flag, since at least as settings objects are defined today they only have corresponding algorithms |
| 12:54 | <mkwst> | Ok. Then perhaps I misunderstood our discussion around shared workers. I thought we were agreeing to add a flag to their settings objects to do the attachment check. |
| 12:58 | <mkwst> | Also: I remember now that the "origin of url" thing was meant to deal with `<iframe sandbox="allow-scripts" src="http://localhost/">`, which is delivered from a "potentially trustworthy" URL, but would have an "HTTPS state" of "none". |
| 13:09 | <annevk> | mkwst: why would that have an HTTPS state of none? |
| 13:09 | <mkwst> | Because it's not modernly encrypted? Or deprecatedly encrypted? It |
| 13:09 | <annevk> | mkwst: hmm I guess it does currently |
| 13:09 | <mkwst> | It's not https at all? |
| 13:09 | <annevk> | mkwst: well, data and blob URLs are not HTTPS either and we set it for those |
| 13:11 | <mkwst> | If the origin is inherited, that makes sense. |
| 13:11 | <mkwst> | (Note that `data` doesn't inherit the origin in Chrome, and isn't considered secure in this draft) |
| 13:12 | <annevk> | mkwst: "this draft" builds on top of a house of cards with cards missing, so that's very much unclear |
| 13:13 | <annevk> | mkwst: especially since Fetch does set HTTPS state to modern for certain data ULRs |
| 13:14 | <mkwst> | Ok. Chrome doesn't consider `data` URLs secure. I'll have to look at Fetch to see what it considers secure. :) |
| 13:15 | <mkwst> | Help me find cards. *shrug* It seems like the thing that's missing is the analog to "https state" for a settings object. |
| 13:16 | <mkwst> | Conceptually, that seems straightforward to inherit the Response's https state down into the document or worker which uses the response to create a settings object/context/etc. |
| 13:22 | <mkwst> | (e.g. https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27147) |
| 14:00 | <smaug____> | annevk: do you think you'd have time to look at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28920 |
| 14:01 | <smaug____> | (gandalf needs it for some localization stuff, but before changing Gecko, I'd like to see the spec changed) |
| 14:18 | <MikeSmith> | mkwst: does Chrome actually yet support doing SRI using the integrity member of the options to fetch()? |
| 14:18 | <MikeSmith> | as opposed to just the integrity markup attribute |
| 14:19 | <mkwst> | MikeSmith: I don' |
| 14:19 | <mkwst> | I don' |
| 14:19 | <mkwst> | ... |
| 14:19 | <mkwst> | I can't type. And I don't know. |
| 14:19 | <mkwst> | Let me look. If Joel implemented it, I didn't review it. |
| 14:20 | <MikeSmith> | k |
| 14:20 | <MikeSmith> | I can't tell for certain from https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=355467 |
| 14:20 | <mkwst> | Looks like the attribute is there. Let's see if it's wired up to anything. |
| 14:21 | <MikeSmith> | I see https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=355467#c27 "we have shipped SRI as per the spec only for <script> and <link rel="stylesheet"> elements" but that's ambiguous (in that it could just mean "but not for other elements") |
| 14:24 | <mkwst> | MikeSmith: Looks like it might be wired up. :) |
| 14:25 | <MikeSmith> | cool |
| 14:25 | <MikeSmith> | thanks |
| 14:25 | <MikeSmith> | (I'm updating that MDN page with more specific details) |
| 14:26 | <mkwst> | MikeSmith: Looks like it landed ~3 weeks ago: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27190 |
| 14:28 | <JonathanNeal> | TabAtkins: pardon the diet PR, but I hope it makes the update a little easier. I wasn’t sure what else to touch. https://github.com/tabatkins/specs/pull/42 |
| 14:40 | <annevk> | Hmm, smaug is offline |
| 14:47 | <Ms2ger> | * smaug will be less offline during evenings this week because of hiff.fi |
| 14:56 | <annevk> | So I wonder if fixing ganfalf's issue means queueing tasks or whether there's something more involved needed |
| 15:04 | <annevk> | I cannot actually find a problem with the standard |
| 15:04 | annevk | left a comment on the bug |
| 16:48 | <MikeSmith> | has anybody tried navigator.webkitGetUserMedia in Safari 8 and managed to get it to work? |
| 16:49 | <MikeSmith> | I get a "not supported" error when I try it |
| 19:51 | <smaug____> | annevk: hopefully my comment clarified a bit where the issue is with defer scripts |
| 19:52 | <smaug____> | I don't recall if there was something also with async |
| 22:00 | MikeSmith | wonders if smaug____ is also a filmmaker |
| 22:02 | <smaug____> | hmm |
| 22:03 | <smaug____> | at least I'm not aware of that |
| 23:28 | <rniwa> | hayato: yt? |
| 23:28 | <rniwa> | Domenic: yt? |
| 23:29 | <Domenic> | rniwa: yes |
| 23:29 | <rniwa> | Domenic: does the event path supposed to include shadow root? |
| 23:29 | <rniwa> | Domenic: it looks like it should according to the latest editor's draft |
| 23:29 | <rniwa> | annevk: ^ |
| 23:29 | <Domenic> | rniwa: I think it was renamed to deepPath and does, for open shadow trees |
| 23:30 | <rniwa> | Domenic: I'm not talking about the property `deepPath` |
| 23:30 | <Domenic> | rniwa: oh, you mean the shadow root node specifically? yes, i can't imagine why that would be omitted. |
| 23:30 | <rniwa> | Domenic: but rather whether the event will be fired on the shadow root or not |
| 23:30 | <Domenic> | i see |
| 23:30 | <rniwa> | Domenic: and it seems the answer is yes |
| 23:30 | <Domenic> | I don't remember anyone ever bringing this up, but it does seem like the intention and it seems reasonable. |
| 23:32 | <rniwa> | Domenic: okay, thanks |
| 23:36 | <dglazkov> | yep, that should be okay |
| 23:36 | rniwa | is writing tests |
| 23:43 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: https://twitter.com/amirrajan/status/646380685045796864 |
| 23:44 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: http://a/%%30%30 |
| 23:44 | <MikeSmith> | rniwa: do you know, does Safari not support getUserMedia at all? even prefixed? |
| 23:46 | <rniwa> | MikeSmith: we don't support it at all |
| 23:46 | <rniwa> | MikeSmith: not even prefixed |
| 23:46 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 23:47 | <MikeSmith> | I get different errors for it in nightly WebKit vs Safari 8 stable, which made me wonder a bit ("permission denied" in WebKit vs "undefined" in stable) |
| 23:48 | <MikeSmith> | smaug____: was wondering given Ms2ger comment about the film festival |
| 23:48 | <rniwa> | oh that's strange. |
| 23:49 | <MikeSmith> | rniwa: yeah dunno whyーdidn't investigate beyond that |
| 23:50 | <rniwa> | MikeSmith: okay, thanks for letting me know! |
| 23:50 | <MikeSmith> | cheers |
| 23:56 | <smaug____> | MikeSmith: oh. just a film festival around here |
| 23:57 | smaug____ | could recommend "The Brand New Testament" |