| 02:06 | <JonathanNeal> | Hey, give or take 697. |
| 08:11 | <annevk> | Domenic: one more look? https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/187 |
| 08:18 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: attempted an answer of sorts |
| 08:25 | <annevk> | roc: Yeah, very interesting indeed. Also how mobile app development you need to be much more correct before release, due to bugs leading to crashes. |
| 08:26 | <Domenic> | annevk: I can't actually find the definition for #concept-WorkerGlobalScope-url ? |
| 08:26 | <annevk> | Domenic: directly below WorkerGlobalScope</dfn> |
| 08:27 | <annevk> | Domenic: "A WorkerGlobalScope object has an associated url (null or a URL). It is initially null." |
| 08:27 | <annevk> | Domenic: but the data-x stuff gets lowercased |
| 08:27 | <annevk> | Domenic: so #concept-workerglobalscope-url |
| 08:28 | <Domenic> | Ah OK |
| 08:29 | <annevk> | Domenic: so yeah, I'm pretty sure we need <script type=module> to require CORS, due to new SOP risks, but folks are sensitive |
| 08:30 | <Domenic> | annevk: it seems better to me to follow CORS on all new things. |
| 08:30 | <Domenic> | <script type="module"> should mostly be used for inline anyway, IMO. |
| 08:30 | <Domenic> | But I guess the question recurs for absolute-URL `import`s |
| 08:30 | <annevk> | Domenic: yeah, I think we cannot not require CORS |
| 08:30 | Domenic | is in European timezone for a few days |
| 08:30 | <annevk> | Domenic: not sure what to default to though |
| 08:31 | <annevk> | Domenic: I guess "anonymous" |
| 08:42 | <Domenic> | Hmm I wonder if http://www.w3.org/TR/cors/ should go in https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Fork_tracking ? |
| 08:42 | <annevk> | Domenic: s/the/this/ would no longer be consistent with the definition for self |
| 08:43 | <annevk> | Domenic: we really need an IDL-defined "this" |
| 08:43 | <annevk> | Domenic: yeah I guess it should |
| 08:43 | <annevk> | Domenic: that's been causing a ton of confusion |
| 08:43 | <annevk> | Domenic: I will add it |
| 08:43 | <Domenic> | annevk: acknowledged on s/the/this |
| 09:15 | <nox> | annevk: Talking about WebIDL, https://github.com/heycam/webidl/pull/58 |
| 09:19 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: thanks (for the SO answer) |
| 09:21 | <annevk> | nox: you want heycam|away |
| 09:28 | <annevk> | Okay shit, I accidentally force pushed html-build |
| 09:29 | <annevk> | Can someone undo? |
| 09:29 | <annevk> | And then enable protection for master? |
| 09:29 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: Domenic: ^^ |
| 09:32 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: Domenic: unless there were commits after zcorpan's commit, nothing may have been damaged |
| 09:43 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: will take a look, and no worries, I'm sure we can unwind it if needed |
| 09:43 | <MikeSmith> | but yeah, will set up master-branch protection there right now |
| 09:44 | <MikeSmith> | btw is anything I wrote at http://stackoverflow.com/a/32769242/441757 not accurate? |
| 09:44 | <Domenic> | annevk: yeah can fix, although my Linux computer is back at the hotel so will be a few hours. |
| 09:45 | <MikeSmith> | (about non-localhost web apps being able to read from local file:// URLs) |
| 09:45 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: Domenic: I'll just not touch anything there for now |
| 09:46 | <MikeSmith> | Domenic: I'll just wait for you to reset it, unless you want me to deal with it in the mean tiem |
| 09:46 | <Domenic> | MikeSmith: if you have the latest commits locally then go ahead. |
| 09:47 | <MikeSmith> | k looking now |
| 09:47 | <nox> | annevk: Yes, but as you say he is away. :) |
| 09:50 | <MikeSmith> | Domenic: so yeah the last merge to master was for https://github.com/whatwg/html-build/pull/35 and I have that of course, so I reckon you got the same on your other machine |
| 09:50 | <MikeSmith> | so I'll go ahead and force-push from my clone |
| 09:50 | <Domenic> | Shouldn't need force, right? |
| 09:50 | <MikeSmith> | ah yeah |
| 09:51 | <Domenic> | But yeah I am 95% sure that was HEAD. |
| 09:51 | <MikeSmith> | yeah same here |
| 09:52 | <MikeSmith> | and if we're wrong and there was some other change we're forgetting about that happened in the mean time, you can push it later |
| 09:52 | <MikeSmith> | I definitely didn't push to master myself since then |
| 09:53 | <MikeSmith> | ok, just pushed (and yeah, didn't need to force-push it), and it was just that one change since the time of zcorpan's commit |
| 09:54 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: enable protection? |
| 09:54 | <MikeSmith> | yup, just did now |
| 09:55 | <MikeSmith> | so all is now right with the world again |
| 09:55 | <annevk> | sorry about that |
| 09:55 | <annevk> | glad things are still a bit distributed, even though GitHub is not |
| 09:55 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 11:21 | <smaug____> | annevk: could "9.5.4 Broadcasting to many ports" be possibly removed from the spec |
| 11:23 | smaug____ | files a bug |
| 11:39 | <MikeSmith> | fyi I just now added a deprecation warning to https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Using_the_application_cache |
| 11:40 | <MikeSmith> | I guess it should be added to all other MDN pages for appcache |
| 11:43 | <MikeSmith> | what's the release date for Firefox 42? |
| 11:43 | <MikeSmith> | beginning of November? middle? |
| 11:43 | MikeSmith | finds http://release.mozilla.org/planning/2015/01/13/release-schedule.html |
| 11:44 | <MikeSmith> | 2015-11-03 |
| 11:44 | <botie> | 2001 |
| 11:45 | <Ms2ger> | Thank you botie |
| 11:46 | <MikeSmith> | yeah I got no idea what "feature" of botie produced that, but I approve |
| 11:46 | <MikeSmith> | botie++ |
| 11:47 | <smaug____> | https://wiki.mozilla.org/RapidRelease/Calendar |
| 11:48 | MikeSmith | looks |
| 11:50 | <MikeSmith> | oh geez I only now realize that botie is just doing simple subtraction there. that makes it much less interesting. I guess I had thought it was just picking some number at randome |
| 11:50 | <Domenic> | hahaha |
| 11:50 | <MikeSmith> | thanks smaug____ |
| 11:50 | <Domenic> | botie is so endearingly dumb |
| 11:50 | <MikeSmith> | hah |
| 11:50 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 11:52 | <zcorpan> | 1-2 |
| 11:52 | <zcorpan> | :-| |
| 12:01 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: you gotta tell it the right way :p |
| 12:02 | <zcorpan> | 2015-11-2500 |
| 12:02 | <botie> | -496 |
| 12:04 | <zcorpan> | 2015-11-66000 |
| 12:04 | <botie> | -63996 |
| 12:04 | <Domenic> | =1-2 |
| 12:04 | <Domenic> | 1-2=? |
| 12:04 | <zcorpan> | 2015-11-4294967296 |
| 12:04 | <botie> | -4294965292 |
| 12:04 | <Domenic> | uh oh |
| 12:05 | <zcorpan> | 2015-2016-4294967296 |
| 12:05 | <botie> | -4294967297 |
| 12:07 | <Ms2ger> | Kiddos... :) |
| 12:08 | <zcorpan> | 1-2-9007199254740992 |
| 12:08 | <botie> | -9007199254740993 |
| 12:08 | <zcorpan> | impressive |
| 12:08 | <zcorpan> | python? |
| 12:11 | <zcorpan> | next up, consume all for botie's RAM with a big number :-) |
| 12:12 | <Ms2ger> | Anyone harassing bots shall be punished :) |
| 12:17 | <zcorpan> | no chocolate? :-( |
| 12:21 | <Ms2ger> | TabAtkins, wanna define @import in terms of Fetch? |
| 13:21 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: FYI about the MDN SRI page, after talking with Francois I'm going to drop the Fetch-related bits there for now, and plan to re-add them later if/when they get re-added to the SRI spec |
| 13:22 | <MikeSmith> | (in light of https://github.com/w3c/webappsec/pull/460 「SRI: remove "Fetch Modifications" section」) |
| 13:26 | <MikeSmith> | gsnedders: does html5lib work under Python 3? |
| 13:28 | <Ms2ger> | I think it should |
| 13:29 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 13:29 | <MikeSmith> | I figured it did but wasn't sure |
| 14:20 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: well, fetch() will remain working for SRI |
| 14:21 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I guess the question is whether the MDN page should reflect the spec or the feature |
| 14:21 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I'd think the latter, personally |
| 14:22 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: it doesn't work in gecko yet, right? and I think Francois has found that it doesn't work yet in blink either |
| 14:22 | <MikeSmith> | and he's dropping it from the SRI spec for now |
| 14:22 | <MikeSmith> | that's what the PR does, right? |
| 14:22 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: no, the PR just reflects changes in Fetch |
| 14:23 | <MikeSmith> | oh ok |
| 14:23 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: integrity for fetch() is defined by Fetch |
| 14:23 | <MikeSmith> | ah yeah OK |
| 14:23 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: and we should define integrity for <link> and <script> in HTML, really |
| 14:23 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 14:23 | <MikeSmith> | OK |
| 14:26 | <annevk> | smaug____: you know you can submit PRs, right? ;-) |
| 14:26 | <smaug____> | github... |
| 14:27 | <smaug____> | I could write a patch I guess |
| 14:27 | <annevk> | smaug____: it's a magical place |
| 14:27 | smaug____ | wonders how to attach patches to github |
| 14:27 | <smaug____> | I guess it is somehow possible |
| 14:27 | <annevk> | smaug____: I'm happy to do it for you |
| 14:27 | <annevk> | smaug____: didn't realize you hadn't worked with PRs at all yet |
| 14:28 | <smaug____> | I'm very old school |
| 14:28 | <smaug____> | ancient beast |
| 14:29 | <annevk> | from a children's fairy tale, right? |
| 14:30 | <smaug____> | I don't count any Tolkien's Middle-earth related work as children's fairy tale, just fairy tale ;) |
| 14:31 | <annevk> | I suppose, I thought the Hobbit was meant for children, but it's entertaining either way |
| 14:32 | <smaug____> | (sure, it was was probably written for children, but sort of turned out to be also something else) |
| 14:34 | <smaug____> | annevk: actually I just noticed that PortCollection stuff again while reading about MessagePorts. I wonder how often MessagePorts are actually sent to some other window/worker after they've been started. |
| 14:35 | <annevk> | smaug____: not sure, I think baku has been fixing some of that stuff |
| 14:35 | <smaug____> | IMO the current setup is overengineered, but most probably too late to change |
| 14:35 | <smaug____> | yeah, baku implemented MessagePorts |
| 14:35 | <smaug____> | I'm thinking about the spec |
| 14:36 | <annevk> | smaug____: you mean we should just have had simple message passing and no channels and all that? |
| 14:36 | <smaug____> | because jesup was asking about making DataChannel transferable |
| 14:36 | <annevk> | cloneable or transferable? |
| 14:36 | <smaug____> | annevk: well, at least once a MessagePort is started, is there any good use case to transfer it? |
| 14:37 | <smaug____> | annevk: transferable |
| 14:37 | <annevk> | smaug____: I think Hixie had some use cases around services |
| 14:37 | <smaug____> | you'd get RTCDataChannel probably in the main thread and transfer it to some worker |
| 14:37 | <annevk> | smaug____: but it's been a while since I tried to look into that and it was probably too complicated for me anyway |
| 14:38 | <smaug____> | so I wonder if RTCDataChannel could actually have some tiny bit simpler setup |
| 14:38 | <smaug____> | oh well, I'll let jesup to sort this out |
| 14:47 | <TabAtkins> | Ms2ger: Yes I do. |
| 14:50 | <TabAtkins> | roc: Ugh, sites like that are a stark example of why you should never give sites the ability to control scroll directly. The momentum is all fucked up and it really messes with me. >_< |
| 15:34 | <aleray> | Hi, I have this piece of code using html5lib-python: http://dpaste.com/2WEDB88 |
| 15:34 | <aleray> | do you know why I get `u'<p>Des outils sensibles'` instead of `u'<p>Des outils sensibles</p>'` |
| 15:34 | <aleray> | ? |
| 15:41 | <aleray> | ok sorry I should have searched a little bit more before asking: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9107649/what-is-going-on-with-this-html5lib-script |
| 16:02 | <annevk> | JakeA: https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/issues/106#issuecomment-142218051 |
| 16:39 | <annevk> | The WebSocket plot thickens |
| 16:39 | <Hixie> | lordy now what |
| 16:39 | <annevk> | Hixie: hey! |
| 16:40 | <annevk> | Hixie: nothing much, just trying to figure out HSTS/upgrade-insecure-requests/MIX for WebSocket in the face of the IETF not updating the spec |
| 16:40 | <annevk> | Hixie: https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/180 has ramblings |
| 16:41 | <Hixie> | websocket is unaffected by hsts in theory. it's not http. |
| 16:41 | <annevk> | In practice it seems it kinda is |
| 16:41 | <annevk> | I very much expect that in browsers they go in the same Fetch pipeline as everything else |
| 16:42 | <Hixie> | figures |
| 17:24 | <Hixie> | abarth: https://github.com/flutter/engine/pull/1344 |
| 17:52 | <abarth> | Hixie: https://github.com/flutter/engine/pull/1345 <--- moar tests |
| 18:28 | <abarth> | Hixie: https://github.com/flutter/engine/pull/1346 <--- MOAR tests |
| 18:29 | <terinjokes> | does SRI make sense for scripts being served from your own domain (with TLS)? |
| 18:30 | <terinjokes> | seems like all the example are for loading content from CDNs |
| 20:03 | <MikeSmith> | terinjokes: I think it might if you have some shared hosting setup where users might be able to overwrite other users scripts (either inadvertently or maliciously) |
| 20:05 | <MikeSmith> | or even if were on the same system working, and, e.g., you have some document that wants version X of some script and I have some document that wants version Y |
| 20:05 | <MikeSmith> | and we want to make sure versions are accidentally getting overwritten |
| 20:07 | <MikeSmith> | so I guess it can also just be an additional level of integrity checking that you might want to have regardless of where you're hosting the scripts |
| 20:08 | <JonathanNeal> | Sometimes I want to do something like `:root { font-size: 6.25%; }`, just so that 1rem = 1px so I can mark things up using similar numbers, but differentiate when I think the element should grow or shrink based on the font size. |
| 20:38 | <terinjokes> | MikeSmith: i got a ticket to implement version fingerprinting/cache busting, was thinking that I just compute (and use) SRI, and just take some subset of the hash as the bust |
| 20:42 | <MikeSmith> | terinjokes: sounds workable |
| 20:42 | <terinjokes> | gracias |
| 20:43 | <terinjokes> | no plans to allow other users to modify the page, but who knows |
| 20:43 | <terinjokes> | ensuring we're delivering the right version is a nice addition though |
| 20:52 | <SimonSapin> | Do browsers run html5lib tests? |
| 20:55 | <MikeSmith> | SimonSapin: I believe Mozilla CI does, right? |
| 20:56 | <MikeSmith> | via wpt |
| 20:56 | <MikeSmith> | because they are incorporated into the wpt repo |
| 20:57 | <MikeSmith> | SimonSapin: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/tree/master/html/syntax/parsing |
| 20:58 | <MikeSmith> | the htmllib_*html files |
| 21:07 | <SimonSapin> | MikeSmith: I’m trying to get the history right to explain html5lib vs libxml2 (lxml.html) in a blog post |
| 21:07 | <SimonSapin> | also, https://github.com/SimonSapin/html5ever-python :) |
| 21:09 | <SimonSapin> | MikeSmith: is it fair to call html5lib a reference implementation developed alongside the HTML parsing spec? |
| 21:10 | <MikeSmith> | yes |
| 21:10 | <MikeSmith> | it is fair to say that |
| 21:10 | <MikeSmith> | it was the first implementation of the parsing algorithm |
| 21:11 | <MikeSmith> | ah nice to have the Python bindings for html5ever |
| 21:11 | <MikeSmith> | SimonSapin: and yeah it absolutely was developed alongside the parsing spec |
| 21:11 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham and gsnedders could give you more of the history |
| 23:17 | <jgraham> | SimonSapin: It isn't a true reference implementation; if it disagrees with the spec then the spec is right and the implemenation is wrong. But one goal was certainly to help with the development of the spec. |
| 23:18 | <SimonSapin> | fair enough |