| 02:30 | <MikeSmith> | my Canary on OS X is failing to update for the last couple days. Wondering if others are having the same problem |
| 02:31 | <MikeSmith> | normally I would just give up and build it from sources, but I have XCode7 installed, and that currently breaks clang compiling of the blink code all over the place |
| 04:02 | <caitp> | MikeSmith: that sounds like the issue of not having the OSX 10.10 sdk, probably |
| 04:03 | <caitp> | but no, not having that issue here |
| 07:55 | <MikeSmith> | caitp: yeah I've since re-tried the build and it actually ran to completion and I've got a new Chromium binary so I'm all good now |
| 07:57 | <MikeSmith> | I had basically been away for an entire week, til today, so I guess all the fixes got made in the mean time |
| 07:59 | <MikeSmith> | caitp: for historical interest, https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=517914 (resolved Oct 13) |
| 08:29 | <philipj> | annevk: do you know how arangana of File API fame is? https://github.com/w3c/FileAPI/commit/613b4d5b679cc651184275d784c1d74e078c3fdf |
| 08:29 | <annevk> | philipj: I suspect Arun |
| 08:30 | <philipj> | annevk: https://github.com/arunranga that is? |
| 08:30 | <annevk> | philipj: yes |
| 08:30 | <philipj> | ok, thanks! |
| 08:33 | <philipj> | annevk: the context is https://github.com/w3c/webrtc-pc/issues/324#issuecomment-148652950 |
| 09:00 | <MikeSmith> | philipj: Arun is a wonderfully reasonable and responsive guy. He's even around on this channel sometimes. |
| 09:02 | <MikeSmith> | And he is somewhat actively contributing recently to discussion on some new spec proposal (though I forget right now which one), so I know he is around |
| 09:02 | <MikeSmith> | at least he was a week or so ago before I took my golf vacation |
| 10:26 | <gsnedders> | Is microdata essentially entirely dead now? |
| 10:27 | <gsnedders> | oh, it's just gone from the W3C spec? |
| 10:27 | <jgraham> | The API is dead |
| 10:27 | <jgraham> | The markup is less dead |
| 10:34 | <gsnedders> | Given everything that supports microdata also supports RDFa, as far as I can tell, and some things *only* support RDFa, it seems dubious to me as to why I should use it. |
| 10:35 | <jgraham> | So that you don't have to use RDFa? |
| 10:35 | <jgraham> | I mean that's the value proposition |
| 10:35 | <jgraham> | If you don't think that's valuable then you aren't going to like it |
| 10:35 | <gsnedders> | RDFa really isn't that bad if you use a simple subset, though… |
| 10:36 | <gsnedders> | esp. now RDFa Lite is supported everywhere |
| 10:36 | <jgraham> | Shrug |
| 10:37 | <gsnedders> | I agree the full thing is implementation hell, but the reality is that it's supported everywhere and microdata isn't. |
| 10:37 | <jgraham> | They all solve a problem I have never had |
| 10:37 | <gsnedders> | (the problem in question here is "getting 'Rich Snippets' on Google search") |
| 10:37 | <gsnedders> | And "reasonable auto-link descriptions on Facebook" |
| 10:37 | <gsnedders> | And things along this line. |
| 10:50 | <gsnedders> | oh god |
| 10:51 | <gsnedders> | ended up looking at the *full* RDFa spec |
| 10:51 | <gsnedders> | I'm so lost. |
| 10:51 | <gsnedders> | And I'm someone who's done a fair bit with RDF previously… |
| 11:51 | <annevk> | That's why we have Microdata |
| 14:01 | <smaug____> | annevk: "Apply the URL parser to url, with base as the base URL, with encoding as the encoding." means what |
| 14:02 | <smaug____> | is it about "basic URL parser"in https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-basic-url-parser ? |
| 14:02 | <smaug____> | or something else |
| 14:02 | <smaug____> | hmm, maybe not, since HTML spec uses both "URL parser" and "basic URL parser" |
| 14:03 | <smaug____> | and " basic URL parser" takes and input, and url and base are optionals |
| 14:04 | <gsnedders> | smaug____: https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#url-parsing |
| 14:05 | <smaug____> | hmm, it takes input |
| 14:05 | <smaug____> | I guess "url" maps to that "input" |
| 14:06 | <gsnedders> | yeah |
| 14:36 | <annevk> | smaug____: is URL parser not xref'd? |
| 14:46 | <smaug____> | I didn't see a link |
| 14:47 | <smaug____> | there was a link to "basic URL parser" |
| 14:54 | <annevk> | smaug____: anyway, URL parser is https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-url-parser |
| 14:54 | <annevk> | smaug____: which takes a url, base URL, and an encoding |
| 14:55 | <smaug____> | it takes "input" |
| 14:55 | <smaug____> | but something else is passing "url" |
| 14:55 | <smaug____> | so that was just a bit misleading, silly me |
| 14:56 | <annevk> | smaug____: I see, still need to update HTML a bit around URL handling |
| 14:56 | smaug____ | almost understands how push/replaceState should behave per spec ;) |
| 14:56 | <Ms2ger> | How about you write a couple hundred tests? :) |
| 15:08 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: what is the frameURI business in https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/master/html/browsers/origin/cross-origin-objects/win-documentdomain.html? |
| 15:10 | <Ms2ger> | No clue |
| 15:12 | <annevk> | "Addressed Ms2ger's review comments." |
| 15:12 | <annevk> | hmm |
| 15:13 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/2116 |
| 15:13 | <annevk> | I don't understand assigning window.frames in https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/master/html/browsers/origin/cross-origin-objects/frame.html either |
| 15:14 | <Ms2ger> | Ask bholley? |
| 15:14 | <Ms2ger> | Or bz |
| 15:16 | <annevk> | I guess I have to :-/ |
| 15:16 | <annevk> | I already have some outstanding questions |
| 15:16 | <annevk> | This is a bit hard |
| 18:07 | <Domenic> | So the correct type for representing timestamps is unsigned long long? |
| 18:07 | <TabAtkins> | Isn't it DOMTimestamp |
| 18:07 | <TabAtkins> | ? |
| 18:07 | <Domenic> | I think that is changing to be offset from page load? |
| 18:08 | <Domenic> | No, I am wrong |
| 18:08 | <gsnedders> | https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#interface-htmlcollection has what I'd expect to be a link to "Elements" at the start of the note… and it's not xref'd |
| 18:10 | <TabAtkins> | Yeah, the Elements definition is written in pseudo-ES6/IDL, rather than actual WebIDL, so it's not auto-marked-up by Bikeshed, and Anne hasn't manually marked it up. |
| 18:10 | <gsnedders> | well you guys suck! |
| 18:35 | <TabAtkins> | Ugh, I still hate the "in parallel, do..." construction. Every time I see it, it looks like it's telling me to shard out the nested operations in parallel. |
| 19:03 | <Domenic> | Anyone have examples of APIs that use an abbreviation as their first word in a method or property? |
| 19:03 | <Domenic> | So far all I've found is document.URL |
| 19:04 | <Domenic> | OK, document.fgColor, bgColor |
| 19:04 | <Domenic> | cssElementMap |
| 19:04 | <Domenic> | I conclude lowercase |
| 19:05 | <Domenic> | Nobody seems to implement cssElementMap, we should probably kill that |
| 19:33 | <annevk> | Domenic: yes, lowercase for properties |
| 20:10 | <bholley> | annevk: let's talk here |
| 20:10 | <bholley> | annevk: what do you mean 'corresponds to'? |
| 20:10 | <bholley> | annevk: do you mean 'describes'? |
| 20:11 | <bholley> | annevk: or do you mean 'is an object in the scope of' |
| 20:11 | <annevk> | bholley: hmm, I guess it describes the active document |
| 20:11 | <bholley> | annevk: exactly |
| 20:11 | <annevk> | bholley: which could be cross-origin |
| 20:11 | <bholley> | annevk: that's the weird thing about location |
| 20:11 | <bholley> | annevk: which is why same-origin Location objects still need security checks |
| 20:11 | <bholley> | annevk: because you might not be the active document |
| 20:11 | <bholley> | annevk: but that's distinct from how we handle cross-origin objects |
| 20:12 | <annevk> | bholley: is the only difference the prototype stuff and expandos and some things around enumerability? |
| 20:12 | <bholley> | annevk: difference between what and what? |
| 20:13 | <annevk> | bholley: between same-origin Location object describing "cross-origin active document" and cross-origin Location object |
| 20:13 | <bholley> | annevk: they are different "concepts" |
| 20:13 | <bholley> | annevk: which might be confusing you |
| 20:13 | <bholley> | annevk: the "concept" is not "the URL of the browsing context" |
| 20:13 | <bholley> | annevk: the "concept" is "the Location interface associated with a given Window" |
| 20:14 | <bholley> | annevk: which, for bizarre reasons, doesn't necessarily describe that window |
| 20:14 | <bholley> | annevk: but for our purposes, two Location objects that describe the same browsing context are totally distinct |
| 20:14 | <bholley> | annevk: this is web-observable, FWIW |
| 20:15 | <bholley> | annevk: grab xoIframe.contentWindow.location, navigate it to something else, grab the location again |
| 20:15 | <bholley> | annevk: they're two different objects |
| 20:15 | <annevk> | sure, Location objects are minted per Document |
| 20:15 | <bholley> | right |
| 20:16 | <bholley> | annevk: and you can only read the information if the associated Document is same-origin _and_ the Document's BC's active Document is same-origin |
| 20:16 | <bholley> | as in, we take a union of the two security restrictions |
| 20:17 | <annevk> | makes sense |
| 20:18 | <annevk> | the "concept" thing is a bit weird, since the cross-origin wrapper will forward behavior and at that point we basically expect that behavior to be JavaScript-object-like |
| 20:18 | <annevk> | or something JavaScript can call into |
| 20:19 | <bholley> | annevk: please don't spec this in terms of wrappers |
| 20:20 | <annevk> | bholley: html5-cross-origin-objects is basically a description of proxy objects |
| 20:20 | <annevk> | bholley: I guess I shouldn't use the word wrapper for proxy, but in mind they're somewhat interchangeable |
| 21:49 | <nox> | annevk: The URL spec says: "A URLSearchParams object’s update steps are to set url object’s url’s query …" and "A URLSearchParams object has an associated url object, which is initially null.", |
| 21:50 | <nox> | annevk: but it also says "A URL object has an associated url (a URL) and query object (a URLSearchParams object)." |
| 21:50 | <nox> | So, can URLSearchParams' "url object" be something else than an instance of the interface named URL? |
| 23:50 | <rniwa> | Domenic: yt? |
| 23:50 | <rniwa> | annevk: yt? |