| 07:48 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: why is the "fork me on GitHub" commented out for platform.html5.org? |
| 07:48 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I think a lot of people don't figure out "Last modified" is a link to the changelog either |
| 07:49 | <MikeSmith> | because fugly I guess |
| 07:49 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: we should make it clearer how to contribute |
| 07:49 | <MikeSmith> | OK by me |
| 07:49 | <MikeSmith> | you wanna change it, or want me to? |
| 07:56 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I added something |
| 07:56 | MikeSmith | looks |
| 07:56 | <MikeSmith> | did you push it? |
| 07:57 | MikeSmith | pulls |
| 07:57 | <MikeSmith> | ah yeah OK |
| 07:57 | <MikeSmith> | thanks |
| 09:05 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: last change to https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20247 looks suspicious |
| 09:05 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: random person changes the resolution |
| 09:06 | MikeSmith | looks |
| 09:07 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 09:07 | <MikeSmith> | Will unwind it once I'm back to my laptop |
| 09:20 | <annevk> | So I emailed GPHemsley and it seems the best course of action is for MIME Sniffing to become maintained by a group of folks |
| 09:20 | <annevk> | Through PRs, community review, etc. |
| 09:20 | <annevk> | He doesn't really have the bandwidth anymore to work on it actively |
| 09:56 | <jochen__> | annevk: does fetch define when the origin header is set to what value? |
| 10:00 | <annevk> | jochen__: it's set in https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#http-network-or-cache-fetch |
| 10:01 | <annevk> | jochen__: step 7 |
| 10:03 | <zcorpan_> | annevk: was it intentional to drop Attr#nodeName? |
| 10:03 | <zcorpan_> | https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2593 |
| 10:04 | <zcorpan_> | live dom viewer uses Attr#nodeName :-) |
| 10:04 | <annevk> | pfff |
| 10:05 | <annevk> | I guess we should just put Node back on the prototype chain and forget about it |
| 10:05 | <annevk> | will require a lot of subtle changes everywhere though |
| 10:08 | <zcorpan_> | maybe that's what we'll end up having to do, but adding an alias like Attr already has for nodeValue seems like a reasonable first step |
| 10:09 | <annevk> | I guess, I wonder what philipj thinks |
| 10:09 | <philipj> | fun with Attr? |
| 10:10 | <philipj> | I don't have high hopes for divorcing Attr from Node anymore |
| 10:10 | <philipj> | the main benefit in doing so I think would be memory usage, but if people just don't use Attr objects at all it'll work out even better |
| 10:10 | <philipj> | of course something like Live DOM Viewer couldn't get by with only getAttributeNames() |
| 10:11 | <philipj> | I'm waiting to see data from https://www.chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/1034 |
| 10:11 | <philipj> | that's cloneNode() on attr |
| 10:12 | <philipj> | my thinking is that if we require just one more thing with "node" in the name as an alias, then it's just as well to put Node back as the parent interface |
| 10:13 | <Ms2ger> | Not sure I agree with that, then you have to add an extra check in every API that takes a Node |
| 10:15 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: they usually have checks anyway |
| 10:15 | <zcorpan_> | 10091 resources from 470k pages match REGEXP_MATCH(content, r'\.attributes\[[a-zA-Z0-9\. -]+\]\.nodeName') (dataset httparchive:har.chrome_jan_15_2016_requests) |
| 10:16 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: another branch can be optimized, what are the no-branch cases that would need a branch for Attr? |
| 10:52 | <nox> | annevk: Should I try to make a WebIDL PR for [Abstract], btw? |
| 10:52 | <annevk> | nox: what's that? |
| 10:52 | <annevk> | nox: did you forget [Alias]? |
| 10:52 | <nox> | annevk: Signal that that interface cannot be instantiated directly. For example Node. |
| 10:52 | <nox> | annevk: [Alias] is a mess to specify, but I started that. :( |
| 10:52 | <annevk> | nox: the lack of [Constructor] signifies that |
| 10:53 | <nox> | annevk: No it doesn't. |
| 10:53 | <nox> | annevk: I can have an Element. |
| 10:53 | <nox> | annevk: I can't have a Node. |
| 10:53 | <annevk> | Fair, so how does this help? |
| 10:53 | <nox> | An Element can be just an Element, a Node cannot be just a Node and is always either a DocumentType etc. |
| 10:53 | <nox> | annevk: It helps codegen, as with all the things I try to specify. :P |
| 10:54 | <nox> | annevk: Not very important, just helps self-documenting interfaces. |
| 10:54 | <nox> | annevk: Ms2ger` is upstreaming my Servo [Abstract] patch to Gecko. |
| 10:54 | <Ms2ger`> | I should get back to that |
| 10:55 | <nox> | Ms2ger`: Yes you should. You should also review my PR. ;) |
| 10:56 | <annevk> | nox: attributes that have no observable effect are tricky, though I guess [NewObject] and such are like that so maybe it's fine |
| 10:56 | <nox> | annevk: Are we really going to make Attr derive from Node? :'( |
| 10:57 | <annevk> | nox: seems likely, not sure when we started working on DOM but it's been a while and nobody picked this up |
| 10:57 | <annevk> | nox: we might get CDATASection back too |
| 10:57 | <nox> | Why would we pick this up? It's horrible. |
| 10:57 | <nox> | Why is it needed? |
| 10:58 | <annevk> | compat, presumably |
| 10:58 | <nox> | I disagree with ' my thinking is that if we require just one more thing with "node" in the name as an alias, then it's just as well to put Node back as the parent interface'. |
| 10:58 | <annevk> | Sure, but the bottom line here is that implementers need to adopt, if they don't, we need to move on and stop specifying fiction |
| 10:59 | <nox> | True I guess. :( |
| 11:02 | <annevk> | https://github.com/whatwg/dom/commit/f9f54bd6b6f1c4084eefa9ca057dc90227f068ee AttrExodus is over five years old now |
| 11:02 | <annevk> | I don't really know what an appropriate amount of time is for an experiment, but I'm running out of patience |
| 11:04 | <nox> | annevk: Do UAs actually say they don't want to implement that, or are they just staying mute and frustrating people? |
| 11:05 | <annevk> | Mozilla has said they wanted to do this, but never did |
| 11:05 | <annevk> | Chrome has also said they wanted to do this, but never did, and the only person that still seems to care somewhat there is not optimistic |
| 11:05 | <annevk> | Though I suppose we could wait for philipj to find out about cloneNode() and attr |
| 11:06 | <annevk> | I'm in no rush |
| 11:06 | <philipj> | annevk: yeah, that use counter is only weeks away I think |
| 11:06 | <annevk> | We could easily extend five years of fiction with one more, but it is about time I think to set a deadline |
| 11:06 | <philipj> | Domenic said he wanted to tinker with this I think |
| 11:07 | <philipj> | annevk: killing attr child nodes was still pretty great though |
| 11:07 | <philipj> | easily the craziest part of Attr as it was, I think |
| 11:07 | <nox> | What are "attr child nodes"? |
| 11:08 | <philipj> | nox: insanity: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!msg/blink-dev/4Hg0l42QHH0/H59LyoiJlI4J |
| 11:08 | <nox> | I don't see how that is crazier than attr.nextSibling. |
| 11:13 | <annevk> | nox: attr containing children is definitely weirder |
| 11:14 | <nox> | annevk: I find the fact that it can actually have a child marginally worse than making it seems it can have children, which is what inheriting from Node means. |
| 11:14 | <nox> | But only by a small margin. |
| 11:15 | <Ms2ger`> | Text can't have children :) |
| 11:15 | <nox> | Ms2ger`: But you can text.firstChild, which is sad. |
| 11:16 | <annevk> | Yeah, Attr would become similar to Text I suppose in several ways |
| 11:16 | <annevk> | We could even make it a CharacterData node :-P |
| 11:49 | <Ms2ger`> | Where does shepherd get its definitions for HTML? |
| 11:53 | <nox> | Ms2ger`: Go implement Attr exodus in Gecko so we don't have to change that in Servo. :P |
| 12:17 | <Ms2ger`> | annevk, thoughts? https://github.com/whatwg/dom/compare/master...Ms2ger:table |
| 12:25 | <annevk> | Ms2ger`: looks quite nice |
| 12:26 | <annevk> | Ms2ger`: at some point we should come up with some kind of internal slot thing |
| 12:38 | annevk | wonders if Domenic is around already |
| 13:26 | annevk | couldn't resist and is reworking structured clone into an ECMAScripty thing |
| 15:30 | <mven> | been trying to wrap my brain around 'orphan' and 'widow' in the css spec. Can someone explain to me in laymen's terms what these properties actually do? |
| 15:30 | <mven> | *orphans/widows |
| 15:49 | <Ms2ger`> | mven, avoiding having paragraphs split across pages in such a way that you end up with one line on one of the pages |
| 15:54 | <mven> | @Ms2ger` So similar to word-wrap? |
| 17:06 | annevk | wonders what https://github.com/whatwg/xhr/issues/53 is about |
| 17:07 | <annevk> | Domenic: I left my question in https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/697 |
| 17:08 | <Domenic> | annevk: FIFOing my email now :) |
| 17:08 | <annevk> | hehe |
| 17:09 | <annevk> | Let me know if uploading a copy of the HTML I have written so far for the StructuredClone abstract operation would help |
| 17:09 | <annevk> | It's going to be even prettier than https://github.com/dslomov/ecmascript-structured-clone |
| 17:09 | <miketaylr> | annevk: that seems like some NSFW spam (xhr#53) |
| 17:10 | <annevk> | Okay, emailed GitHub |
| 17:10 | <annevk> | Well, reported to * |
| 17:11 | <miketaylr> | i bet one day we'll get spam issues x-linked to popular bug threads |
| 17:12 | <miketaylr> | "BUY CIALIS CHEAP cf. nodejs/node#4660" |
| 17:54 | <annevk> | GitHub acted, yay |
| 19:21 | Krinkle | wonders why https://annevankesteren.nl/2016/01/film-at-11 has url 'Film at 11' |
| 19:22 | <Krinkle> | pun on British "News at 11" |
| 19:22 | <Krinkle> | ? |
| 19:32 | <roc> | "film at 11" is a standard phrase |
| 19:36 | <roc> | it's supposed to mean "new exciting news coming up" but it is used sarcastically so it means the opposite |
| 19:46 | <Darxus> | I have a web page that's one big imagemap. I have some text in it that's not links, which I'd like to make available as an alt attribute of an area element without an href element. But the spec says that an area element without an href can't have an alt. Why not? |
| 19:49 | <Darxus> | The page is http://www.chaosreigns.com/ |
| 20:11 | <annevk> | Krinkle: news at 11 is incorrect, iirc |
| 20:12 | <Krinkle> | annevk: interesting. |
| 20:12 | <Krinkle> | annevk: So you're sarcastically using the inverse variant of an existing sarcasm. |
| 20:13 | <Krinkle> | I didn't know about film at 11, nice one. |
| 20:13 | <annevk> | Well, film at 11 is correct, but it's indeed sarcastic |
| 21:30 | <gsnedders> | is there any sensible way to run an inline script *after* deferred external scripts? |
| 22:26 | <Adis> | hellooo |
| 22:27 | <Adis> | someone to talk |