| 00:28 | <smaug____> | anyone want to interpret a sentence to me? |
| 00:28 | <smaug____> | Domenic: perhaps you're awake |
| 00:28 | <TabAtkins> | heycam: Yo, PR on WebIDL. |
| 00:28 | <smaug____> | https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/forms.html#dom-cva-reportvalidity |
| 00:28 | <TabAtkins> | smaug____: I'm also available if it's in my wheelhouse. |
| 00:28 | <heycam> | TabAtkins: looking |
| 00:29 | <TabAtkins> | smaug____: What needs to be interpreted about that? |
| 00:29 | <smaug____> | TabAtkins: so, "if the element is a candidate for constraint validation and does not satisfy its constraints" ... "return false", "Otherwise, it must only return true without doing anything else." |
| 00:29 | <smaug____> | or is the "Otherwise, it must only return true without doing anything else." bound somehow differently |
| 00:30 | <smaug____> | like to "if that event is not canceled" |
| 00:30 | <TabAtkins> | Unless this sentence is perverse, your first interpretation is right - the condition covers the rest of that sentence, and the following sentence gives the "else" branch for the conditional. |
| 00:31 | <MikeSmith> | I concur with TabAtkins’s assessment |
| 00:31 | <smaug____> | ok, thanks |
| 00:31 | <smaug____> | so, return true if element is valid effectively |
| 00:32 | <TabAtkins> | yeah |
| 00:33 | <TabAtkins> | I prefer wording my conditionals so that the simpler branch is first, so the binding is clearer. So I'd have reversed this if I were writing it. |
| 00:33 | <TabAtkins> | I see why it's the way it is, tho - the condition is an AND of two conditions, and negating that makes it less clear to express. |
| 00:34 | <TabAtkins> | "If the element is not a candidate for constraint validation, or is a candidate and satisfies its constraints..." |
| 00:34 | <TabAtkins> | Definitely a little fiddlier. |
| 00:35 | <TabAtkins> | I might just abandon English and go for a <dt class=switch>, then. Those are great when you've got conditionals with long branches. |
| 00:35 | <TabAtkins> | s/dt/dl/ |
| 09:28 | <annevk> | hayato: not sure if you're still awake, but would greatly appreciate your input on the issues around events |
| 09:30 | <zcorpan> | <p>If the <var>current media resource</var> is a raw data stream (e.g. from a |
| 09:30 | <zcorpan> | <code>File</code> object), then to determine the format of the <span>media resource</span>, |
| 09:30 | <zcorpan> | can it be a File object? |
| 09:30 | <annevk> | zcorpan: MediaProvider lists Blob, so yes |
| 10:30 | <zcorpan> | can someone test http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/4085 in Edge? |
| 10:30 | <zcorpan> | (interested in whether body fills the viewport or not) |
| 10:45 | <MikeSmith> | apologies to any Star Wars fans who follow me in twitter and may have been offended by my disrespect |
| 10:45 | <MikeSmith> | at the time I tweeted I was filled up with a lot of cheap airplane Chardonnay washed down with Goosehead IPA |
| 10:47 | <AutomatedTester> | MikeSmith: were those tweets about the latest one? |
| 10:47 | <annevk> | haha |
| 10:48 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: was already thinking of putting on Star Wars movies while you're here |
| 10:51 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: haha |
| 10:52 | <MikeSmith> | Star Wars marathon |
| 10:52 | <MikeSmith> | AutomatedTester: yeah the latest one |
| 10:53 | <MikeSmith> | anyway was I drifting in and out of sleep so in hindsight I am not sure how much of it I remember was the the actual movie or instead something I was dreaming |
| 11:09 | <annevk> | Wait per https://code.google.com/p/chromium/codesearch#chromium/src/third_party/WebKit/Source/core/events/EventTarget.cpp&sq=package:chromium&l=274 stuff dispatched through dispatchEvent() doesn't go through various phases in Chrome? |
| 11:13 | <annevk> | I guess I'm missing something |
| 11:13 | <annevk> | <script>document.documentElement.addEventListener("x", w);document.body.dispatchEvent(new Event("x", { bubbles: true }))</script> works fine |
| 11:14 | <ondras> | annevk: I would say that it goes only through AT_TARGET and bubbling |
| 11:14 | <Ms2ger> | JS calls https://code.google.com/p/chromium/codesearch#chromium/src/third_party/WebKit/Source/core/events/EventTarget.cpp&sq=package:chromium&l=252&rcl=1461122240 |
| 11:14 | <ondras> | or maybe not |
| 11:17 | <annevk> | I wonder why they have all that different code |
| 11:17 | <annevk> | It's certainly not very clear |
| 11:19 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: but that also seems to call dispatchEventInternal |
| 11:20 | <Ms2ger> | Yeah, dunno |
| 11:23 | <annevk> | I was trying to figure out the shadow tree logic by reading the code, but ... |
| 11:58 | <MikeSmith> | so anybody ever had to block somebody from being able to post comments to a github issue tracker? |
| 11:58 | <MikeSmith> | have reached the end of my patience with this clown: https://github.com/w3c/push-api/issues/189#issuecomment-212377594 |
| 11:58 | <annevk> | I blocked the entire <keygen> issue... |
| 12:04 | <Ms2ger> | Woot |
| 12:04 | <Ms2ger> | FileAPI has an editor |
| 12:17 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 12:18 | <MikeSmith> | was there any announcement anywhere? |
| 12:18 | <MikeSmith> | Ms2ger: ⬆ |
| 12:18 | <Ms2ger> | Not that I saw |
| 12:23 | <MikeSmith> | OK yeah would like to avoid somebody noticing who thinks we need to get formal approval |
| 12:24 | <MikeSmith> | and instead just get the facts on the ground from actual editing before they do |
| 12:25 | <MikeSmith> | not that I can imagine anybody would find this controversial but they do find surprising and novel ways to step in the way of productive working actually getting done |
| 13:09 | <annevk> | smaug____: \o/ |
| 13:10 | <annevk> | smaug____: you're awake, do you also have time? |
| 13:51 | <MikeSmith> | I did manage to figure out how to perma-ban the https://github.com/w3c/push-api/issues/189#issuecomment-212377594 troll org-wide |
| 13:53 | <MikeSmith> | it’s at https://github.com/organizations/FOO/settings/user_blocks where FOO is the org name |
| 14:00 | <MikeSmith> | in other news, among the long list of ugly consequences the semweb crowd have inflicted on themselves with bad (over)designs, apparently since RDF vocabularies and “JSON-LD context files” are hard-wired in some way to depend on dereferenceable namespaces, they have dug themselves into being stuck with http as a result |
| 14:01 | <MikeSmith> | and can’t move those resources to https URLs ever |
| 14:02 | <annevk> | Can't they use owl:sameAs? |
| 14:02 | <MikeSmith> | I guess this was noted in the objections of some TAG members to the consensus that the rest of the universe has about moving to HTTPS everywhere, but I wasn’t paying attention |
| 14:03 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: dunno but if not that maybe the can layer even some more extra shit on top of it |
| 14:04 | <MikeSmith> | no matter what they would have a hard time making it fundamentally worse |
| 14:04 | <annevk> | That's exactly what I understood owl:sameAs to be |
| 14:04 | <annevk> | Some way to paper over shit that is other people's identifiers |
| 14:04 | <MikeSmith> | nobody has mentioned that yet that I recall |
| 14:05 | <MikeSmith> | but again I’m not really paying attention more than just to read stuff and shake my head in disbelief |
| 14:06 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: you don't read the stuff W3C publishes? This is from back in the days of "The Workshop": https://www.w3.org/TR/owl-ref/#sameAs-def |
| 14:06 | <MikeSmith> | the context for why I notice this today is that (surprise surprise) they are lobbying against efforts to get the W3C site moved all over to TLS |
| 14:06 | MikeSmith | looks at https://www.w3.org/TR/owl-ref/#sameAs-def |
| 14:07 | <MikeSmith> | shrug I guess they have no way to hook that into namespace resolution |
| 14:08 | <MikeSmith> | but boy look at the list of worthies who authored that doc |
| 14:08 | <MikeSmith> | really heavy-hitters in Web technologies |
| 14:09 | <MikeSmith> | seriously this is what happens when you have people designing things for that Web who don’t actually understand how the Web actually works |
| 14:10 | <annevk> | There's lots that applies though |
| 14:10 | <MikeSmith> | sure |
| 14:10 | <annevk> | SMIL must be one of my more favorite examples of designing gone wrong: https://annevankesteren.nl/2006/03/smil |
| 14:11 | MikeSmith | reads https://annevankesteren.nl/2006/03/smil |
| 14:12 | <MikeSmith> | god ten years ago, old man |
| 14:12 | <MikeSmith> | and still nobody listens to you! |
| 14:13 | <MikeSmith> | haha “Ten namespaces more than HTML element names in HTML 2.0, 3.2, 4.01 and XHTML 1.1 combined” nice |
| 14:13 | <MikeSmith> | the Schreiber guy who co-edited that doc at least went on to become Wolverine’s brother and fight back to back together when him against evil Dead Pool, which is arguably a bit more than you have accomplished |
| 14:13 | <MikeSmith> | but you still have time |
| 14:15 | <Ms2ger> | "W3C isn't really consistent" |
| 14:15 | <Ms2ger> | - annevk, 17 December 2003 |
| 14:21 | <wanderview> | annevk: is there a big difference between a Response with an empty url list and a Response with a single url that is the empty string? |
| 14:21 | <wanderview> | or a significant difference, I mean |
| 14:21 | <annevk> | wanderview: a URL cannot be the empty string |
| 14:21 | <annevk> | wanderview: at least, a URL record cannot |
| 14:22 | <wanderview> | annevk: but Response only exposes urls as strings |
| 14:23 | <wanderview> | annevk: is it safe to safe Request must have at least one url in its url list, but Response may have no urls in its url list? |
| 14:23 | <annevk> | wanderview: that sounds correct |
| 15:01 | <annevk> | gsnedders: happy b-day young man 🎉🎂 |
| 15:50 | <gsnedders> | annevk: I SAID YOUNG MAN WHEN YOU WALK IN THE DOOR |
| 15:51 | <annevk> | gsnedders: loud party? 😛 |
| 17:16 | <Domenic> | TabAtkins: should Bikeshed grow an "extended attribute" definition type (for Web IDL), or should I just stick with "dfn"? |
| 17:17 | <TabAtkins> | Domenic: Currently I sprout specific types for the few extended attributes I care about. Lay out some use-cases for me that you want to hit and I'll see what the right thing should be. |
| 17:18 | <Domenic> | TabAtkins: well I realized I defined https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/scripting.html#cereactions yesterday but forgot to export it so I can use it in DOM etc. So now I want to correct that but I'm not sure how I should mark it up. |
| 17:19 | <annevk> | smaug____: could you make time today to explain how Gecko does retargating (I'm assuming we have code for that) in https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/485? |
| 17:20 | <annevk> | smaug____: I have to go in a bit, but that would help a lot with figuring out the right way to integrate the monkey patching of events from Shadow DOM |
| 17:20 | <annevk> | smaug____: it's rather unclear to me at the moment what the right design should be, since the existing specification is rather unclear on the particulars, at least to me |
| 17:20 | <TabAtkins> | Right now "dfn" is the right type. A new type *might* be useful, so I could autolink IDL to the definition of the extended attribute, but that would also clash with the autolinking of [Constructor]. I'll have to think about this. |
| 17:21 | <Domenic> | Yeah, I was going to ask about autolinking. But for now I think it works to just add [<a>CEReactions</a>] |
| 17:21 | <smaug____> | annevk: Gecko's relatedTarget retargeting may not be the good one. it happens during event handling |
| 17:22 | <annevk> | smaug____: I'm just talking about target retargeting for now |
| 17:22 | <TabAtkins> | Domenic: It does not, no, because Bikeshed reparses the IDL and throws out any markup in it. ^_^ |
| 17:23 | <smaug____> | annevk: but let me read that bug again once I've dealt with these housing cooperative papers |
| 17:23 | <Domenic> | uh oh |
| 17:23 | <TabAtkins> | (It'll work for HTML where y'all still mark up all your IDL manually.) |
| 17:23 | <smaug____> | in 10 mins or so |
| 17:23 | <annevk> | smaug____: enjoy and thanks |
| 17:23 | <Domenic> | So I guess I'll file a bug on Bikeshed to figure this out, and in the meantime DOM will just not have clickable annotations |
| 17:24 | <TabAtkins> | It might be fine to clash with Constructor linking - the definition of a Constructor is just the constructor method, which is super-obvious. |
| 17:24 | <TabAtkins> | All the rest can link to their concept definition. |
| 18:01 | <wanderview> | JakeA: ping? |
| 19:22 | <Domenic> | annevk: is ShadowRoot's innerHTML defined anywhere? |
| 19:23 | <annevk> | Domenic: that's why I'm considering taking over parts of P&S… |
| 19:23 | <Domenic> | annevk: ah OK... |
| 19:26 | <Domenic> | So many ReSpec specs..... |
| 19:43 | <zcorpan> | font-family: monospace, Droid Sans Fallback, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif; https://resources.whatwg.org/standard.css |
| 19:43 | <zcorpan> | that... makes little sense |
| 19:46 | <smaug____> | contradiction in the spec: " In all cases, the input event comes before the corresponding change event (if any)." ... "the user agent must queue a task to fire a simple event that bubbles named input at the input element. The corresponding change event, if any, will be fired when the control loses focus." |
| 19:47 | smaug____ | files a bug |
| 20:11 | <smaug____> | mounir: so what would a web page do with memorypressure? |
| 20:12 | <smaug____> | I mean, it could sure try to not keep certain stuff alive, but it would be still up to the GC/CC/whatever to actually release the stuff |
| 20:12 | <Domenic> | release blobs or canvases maybe |
| 20:13 | <smaug____> | mounir: oh, I see, UA is expected to GC afterwards |
| 20:15 | <smaug____> | maybe this could work |
| 20:18 | <smaug____> | mounir: though, do we really need any levels? |
| 20:36 | <JonathanNeal> | I’m rewriting flex in JS, and I’m trying to group (row with row-reverse) and (column with column-reverse). I’m thinking the former means the container has a mainAxis of inline and later means the container has a mainAxis of block. Or should I just call them horizontal and vertical? |
| 21:14 | <TabAtkins> | Correct - row means inline, column means block |
| 21:14 | <TabAtkins> | JonathanNeal: ^^^ |
| 21:15 | <JonathanNeal> | Awesome. I thought I had caught that. And the label for that is `axis`? |
| 21:15 | <TabAtkins> | What do you mean by "label"? |
| 21:17 | JonathanNeal | hopes to explain shortly. |
| 21:33 | <JonathanNeal> | TabAtkins: something like this https://gist.github.com/jonathantneal/500a650ce01ddea12d555e127cbb49ba#flex-container- I’m trying to define what happens as I calculate flexbox. |
| 21:39 | <JonathanNeal> | I’m describing an `axis` property on the flex container. It is either `inline` or `block` based on `flex-direction`. |
| 22:38 | <TabAtkins> | JonathanNeal: Then yes. |