05:20
<annevk>
jyasskin: not sure what you mean
05:21
<annevk>
scshunt: 1xx doesn't really reach APIs
05:21
<annevk>
gsnedders: I did, thanks; lots of confusion there, but also some good stuff
05:56
<MikeSmith>
tantek: you need some alt text on that sunglasses tweet man
05:57
<tantek>
I don't think twitter has API for that alt text yet - does it?
05:57
<MikeSmith>
alt="the 1990s called me today saying they want their sunglasses back"
05:57
<MikeSmith>
yeah they just added it today
05:57
<tantek>
the API?
05:58
<MikeSmith>
hmm thought the docs said so
05:58
MikeSmith
looks for the docs
05:59
<MikeSmith>
ah yeah no mention actually in https://support.twitter.com/articles/20174660
05:59
<tantek>
right the lack of API support for the alt is the issue
06:00
<tantek>
but if anyone figures that out / finds it - I can work on getting various indieweb twitter-posting tools updated
06:16
<scshunt>
annevk: that's what I figured. Wanted to check, since there's no explicit handling and Expect: 100-continue would be really convenient for what I'm working on
06:27
<annevk>
scshunt: see issues against Fetch
06:28
<annevk>
scshunt: might want to mention use cases there, maybe we can convince implementers
06:28
<scshunt>
annevk: can you please link?
06:36
<annevk>
scshunt: later, commuting
06:36
<scshunt>
kk
07:00
<annevk>
scshunt: https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/issues/41
07:00
<annevk>
scshunt: I thought there was another issue too, can't find it easily
08:34
<larry1981>
Hi, is there a single document with all the documents and properties that I can use to validate a HTML5 file? Something similar to Doctype DTD for older HTML versions ?
08:34
<larry1981>
Sorry, I meant element and properties.
08:36
<Ms2ger>
No
08:36
<annevk>
larry1981: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/
08:36
<annevk>
larry1981: if you really want single, https://html.spec.whatwg.org/, but that takes a while to load
08:37
<larry1981>
The last link is not working
08:39
<larry1981>
What I want is a file with all the element and properties so I could build a software that allow to create valid HTML5 with all possible element and properties available. I don't want a manual.
08:40
<annevk>
larry1981: maybe your client includes the trailing comma as part of the link?
08:40
<annevk>
larry1981: I see, there's no such thing
08:41
<annevk>
larry1981: there's approximations of that, but no sigar, there's also a thesis that explains why this is the case: https://hsivonen.fi/thesis/html5-conformance-checker
08:49
<larry1981>
What I need is something similar to tables in this page, with all possible element, attributes, events etc...: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/indices.html#index
08:57
<annevk>
zcorpan: thanks for merging those
08:57
<annevk>
(and reviewing)
08:57
<annevk>
Guess I better fix the rest today
08:57
<zcorpan>
np
09:00
<zcorpan>
larry1981: maybe you can use the RELAXNG schemas from the html checker, but again note that they have holes that are plugged with Schematron or custom Java code
09:01
<zcorpan>
larry1981: they might also be a bit out of date
09:03
<zcorpan>
larry1981: but it'd be cool if you started from a different angle and give checker.html5.org some competition :-)
09:04
<larry1981>
I don't really need to validate HTML. I just need to know which attribute or event is available for each HTML element.
09:05
<larry1981>
I want to build something similar to Bootstrap Studio but I would like to support full HTML5, Bootstrap and Foundation.
09:15
<zcorpan>
larry1981: then the spec's index is probably the best
09:32
<nox>
gsnedders: Who could help you review https://github.com/html5lib/html5lib-tests/pull/65?
09:44
<larry1981>
I guess my best information source would be https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/index.html#index
09:45
<Ms2ger>
No
09:45
<Ms2ger>
TR stands for "TRash"
09:46
<annevk>
larry1981: you might want to read https://annevankesteren.nl/2016/01/film-at-11 before trusting what they publish
10:37
<hsivonen>
annevk: does index-jis0208 have duplicates and that's why "index Shift_JIS pointer" has been defined the way it has?
10:39
<hsivonen>
annevk: if yes, a note to that effect would be good. if no, it would be nice to say that you just filter on the pointer returned after normal index jis0208 lookup
10:40
<annevk>
hsivonen: an issue would be good 😊
10:40
<annevk>
hsivonen: but yeah, pretty sure there are duplicates
10:41
<hsivonen>
annevk: ok. thanks
10:49
<hsivonen>
fun times. the Encoding Standard spec offers math in a sequence that overflows a 16-bit integer but doesn't if reordered.
10:49
<hsivonen>
(the half-width math for EUC-JP and Shift_JIS, specifically)
10:51
<annevk>
hsivonen: 0xFF61 + byte − 0xA1?
10:52
<annevk>
hsivonen: compilers don't help with that?
11:21
<annevk>
zcorpan: time for one more small PR before I do a bigger one or would you prefer I group them?
11:21
<zcorpan>
annevk: i can review a small PR
11:22
<annevk>
zcorpan: hmm never mind, more complicated than I thought
11:23
<annevk>
zcorpan: mailto: doesn't seem to ever use multipart/form-data, but it does use application/x-www-form-urlencoded...
11:23
<annevk>
zcorpan: and text/plain
11:25
<hsivonen>
annevk: yes, that constant plus variable minus constant
11:25
<hsivonen>
annevk: that panics with an integer overflow in debug-mode Rust when doing the math as u16
11:26
<hsivonen>
annevk: when integer overflow is an error, the compiler apparently doesn't do the sort of rearraging and constant folding that would remove the error
11:26
<annevk>
hsivonen: if you don't mind, one more issue? I'll happily change that (and maybe leave a note in the source for myself)
11:26
<hsivonen>
annevk: ok
11:29
<annevk>
zcorpan: I guess I should make multipart/form-data a special case for "Submit as entity body"
11:29
<annevk>
zcorpan: that would also make it easier the remove the weird "multipart/form-data boundary string" and have the algorithm just return that
11:30
<zcorpan>
annevk: ok. i haven't studied this section in detail yet so i don't know if what you say makes sense yet :-)
11:31
<annevk>
zcorpan: this section doesn't make sense
11:31
<annevk>
Oh, I should get some lunch
11:32
<zcorpan>
lunch makes sense
11:34
hsivonen
filed https://github.com/whatwg/encoding/issues/49
11:35
<hsivonen>
feel free to shock people who prefer BNF specs with that issue report. :-)
12:16
<zcorpan>
annevk: is it intentional that data:,foo bar when parsed and serialized is data:,foo bar rather than data:,foo%20bar ?
12:18
<annevk>
zcorpan: https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#cannot-be-a-base-url-path-state would encode a space, no?
12:18
<annevk>
oh, it would not
12:19
<annevk>
zcorpan: it does look intentional, but it's been a while
12:21
<zcorpan>
annevk: seems like it wouldn't work so well in contexts that assume you can split on spaces, like ping="", srcset="" etc
12:22
<annevk>
zcorpan: something something logic
12:23
<zcorpan>
annevk: i also don't see anything in the syntax section that allows URLs that don't have a slash after the colon. am i missing something there?
12:24
<zcorpan>
i can file issue(s)
12:25
<annevk>
zcorpan: I think you are missing something
12:25
<annevk>
https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#syntax-url-relative -> https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#syntax-url-path-relative-scheme-less -> https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#syntax-url-path-relative
12:28
<zcorpan>
annevk: ah thx
12:41
<zcorpan>
annevk: tracked it back to https://github.com/whatwg/url/commit/ad3660f97132738b6b2ff0020656e4cb87365f00
12:42
<zcorpan>
http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20121026#l-573
12:54
<annevk>
zcorpan: PR is up, but no longer trivial
12:59
<nox>
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11785456 Hah.
13:00
<zcorpan>
filed https://github.com/whatwg/url/issues/125
13:01
<annevk>
nox: https://resources.whatwg.org/logo-url.svg is the only right answer
13:02
<nox>
annevk: Neat. :)
13:03
<annevk>
nox: that is actually mostly a joke on https://github.com/nodejs/node-v0.x-archive/pull/1580 which tantek found and put on http://tantek.com/2011/238/b1/many-ways-slice-url-name-pieces
13:03
<annevk>
nox: which has funny-at-the-time-memes such as https://camo.githubusercontent.com/bd208bf0093648b4ad23a56faa584596580f76f5/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f3163776d352e706e67
13:10
<zcorpan>
https://camo.githubusercontent.com/bd208bf0093648b4ad23a56faa584596580f76f5/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f3163776d352e706e67 is the best
13:33
<zcorpan>
heh http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20121026#l-964
13:37
<annevk>
zcorpan: couple more months I guess?
13:38
<zcorpan>
yeah. mark your calendars, folks
13:39
<jgraham>
Only if there will be cake
13:39
<zcorpan>
sure why not
13:40
<zcorpan>
we can bikeshed over :
13:40
<jgraham>
I'm pretty sure you will need a : to eat cake
13:41
<zcorpan>
[citation needed]
14:08
<darobin>
do you fine people know if the behaviour of Gecko for document.createElement('p', null) (which will produce <p is="null">) is intentional?
14:08
<darobin>
it doesn't match the spec, but I don't know if it's intentionally different or not
14:09
<darobin>
(it's certainly unhelpful)
14:14
<nox>
zcorpan: Let's make http:://google.fr a valid URL.
14:23
<annevk>
darobin: hmmm Gecko already does custom elements?
14:24
<darobin>
annevk: I don't think so, but it does *something* with that second argument
14:24
<annevk>
darobin: that seems like a bug
14:24
<darobin>
ok, I'll file
14:24
<annevk>
darobin: though the fact that null becomes "null" is quite reasonable
14:24
<darobin>
also, undefined becomes "undefined"
14:24
<annevk>
darobin: if you want to omit arguments, use undefined
14:24
<annevk>
ooh
14:24
<annevk>
darobin: that's pretty bad
14:24
<darobin>
I'm not sure, this came up as a bug in React
14:25
<darobin>
with current React and recent Firefox, *all* elements created through React have is="null"
14:25
<darobin>
because they have code that is like document.createElement(elName, isAttr ? isAttr : null)
14:25
<annevk>
darobin: seems like a React thing
14:25
<darobin>
yeah, I fixed it in React, but Firefox's behaviour is wrong
14:25
<annevk>
darobin: they probably overwrite document.createElement
14:26
<darobin>
no, of course not!
14:26
<darobin>
why would they do that?
14:26
<annevk>
darobin: that is, in Firefox nightly I don't get an is="" attribute
14:26
<annevk>
darobin: reasons?
14:26
<darobin>
I do
14:26
<darobin>
in 48.0a2
14:27
<darobin>
I don't think there's a JS framework out there that has been doing anything to built-in stuff since PrototypeJS went out of fashion
14:27
<annevk>
darobin: have you tested it outside the framework?
14:27
<darobin>
in the console, document.createElement('p', null) -> <p is="null">
14:28
<zcorpan>
no is attribute for me 49.0a1 (2016-05-25)
14:28
<annevk>
on a page that doesn't load the framework darobin?
14:28
<zcorpan>
for http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/4240
14:28
<darobin>
ah, I guess it got fixed, cool
14:28
<darobin>
yeah, this is Bugzilla
14:28
<annevk>
oh wait
14:28
<annevk>
I do get it in the console
14:29
<annevk>
I wonder if Firefox's developer console has a bug here
14:29
<annevk>
File a bug on that?
14:29
<annevk>
That is broken
14:29
<darobin>
let me update to the latest dev and see if it's still there
14:29
<annevk>
I use Nightly and it's there so
14:29
<darobin>
I don't think it's console-specific, I was also getting it in page
14:31
<darobin>
but indeed I can't repro in the DOM Viewer
14:33
<gsnedders>
nox: where did you get those error strings from? did you just copy html5lib?
14:33
<nox>
gsnedders: Not sure I understand the question.
14:44
<gsnedders>
nox: wrt https://github.com/html5lib/html5lib-tests/pull/65
14:44
<gsnedders>
nox: you have line, column position, and then a string. where does that string come frm?
14:44
<gsnedders>
nox: does html5ever have the same set of strings that html5lib does?
14:44
<nox>
gsnedders: No, I think I didn't know where the strings come from when I did that, it's quite an old PR.
14:44
<darobin>
annevk: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1276240
14:45
<nox>
gsnedders: I just invented some strings that correspond to the right errors, IIRC.
14:45
<gsnedders>
nox: so they're arbitrarily made up strings in both html5lib and html5ever
14:45
<gsnedders>
nox: which is what I was expecting
14:46
gsnedders
still thinks we should try and standardise some set of strings
14:46
<gsnedders>
Obviously if your implementation merges a number of the parse errors (because the spec only requires a *number* of parse errors in the right place, not specific types)
14:46
<gsnedders>
then you should either just check the positions or you should have a list of which of your parse errors correspond to what
14:55
<smaug____>
what is module worker?
14:56
<annevk>
darobin: ta
14:56
<smaug____>
in other words, annevk I have no idea what https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/1322 is about :)
14:56
<darobin>
a pleasure sire annevk
14:57
<annevk>
smaug____: module worker is one that runs module scripts
14:57
<Ms2ger>
smaug____, a worker that's an ES module
14:57
<darobin>
I'm still baffled as to why it does not trigged in either Live DOM or JSBin, but *shrug*
14:57
<smaug____>
and module worker is useful because?
14:58
<annevk>
smaug____: because devs want to use modules
14:58
<smaug____>
ok, not helpful yet. Why do we need special workers for modules?
14:59
<smaug____>
how do they behave differently to normal workers?
14:59
<smaug____>
s/normal/dedicated/
14:59
<annevk>
smaug____: different JS syntax
15:01
<smaug____>
still don't understand. I guess I'm not familiar enough with modules
15:01
<smaug____>
I thought they were useful when integrated with other JS stuff
15:01
<annevk>
smaug____: the JavaScript needs to be parsed differently so need some kind of opt-in
15:01
<smaug____>
so that module could export "API"s
15:02
<smaug____>
annevk: so the export functionality wouldn't be really used in module workers?
15:02
<smaug____>
just ability to load a module in worker, just like in main thread using <script> ?
15:02
<annevk>
smaug____: there's a main script that imports other scripts, which would export functionality
15:03
<annevk>
smaug____: in the main thread you need to use <script type=module>
15:03
<annevk>
smaug____: they're analogous
15:03
<smaug____>
now I'm lost
15:03
<annevk>
smaug____: you cannot use modules without opt-in
15:04
<smaug____>
annevk: you're saying even in module worker there is main script which imports other stuff?
15:04
<annevk>
smaug____: and a module script is something that either imports or exports, there's not much more to it
15:04
<annevk>
smaug____: yes
15:04
<smaug____>
so why do we need module worker
15:04
<annevk>
smaug____: to be able to do that
15:04
<smaug____>
if the main script is just plain normal js
15:05
<annevk>
smaug____: it's not
15:05
<annevk>
smaug____: I just said it's a module script
15:05
<smaug____>
plain normal JS can't import?
15:05
<annevk>
smaug____: indeed
15:05
<smaug____>
even in main thread?
15:05
<annevk>
yes
15:05
<smaug____>
ohhoh, I didn't know the setup is so odd
15:05
<smaug____>
ok
15:05
<annevk>
as I said, main thread needs <script type=module>
15:06
<smaug____>
so if modules are being used, all the script usage will be <script type=module>, pretty much
15:06
<smaug____>
some main module importing other modules
15:06
<annevk>
yeah, unless you want to mix things up I suppose
15:07
<smaug____>
ok, why do we then want to change worker loading depending on whether we're dealing with module worker?
15:09
<annevk>
smaug____: it didn't seem worth the hassle to support CORS for classic workers
15:17
smaug____
can't find where we do same origin check for workers in the spec.
15:18
<annevk>
smaug____: it happens in Fetch
15:19
<annevk>
smaug____: the request mode is "same-origin" or "cors" (module workers)
15:19
<annevk>
smaug____: though we need to bring one check back: https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/1332
15:20
<annevk>
Gotta go
15:20
<smaug____>
it is rather error prone that module workers even fetch data so differently
15:25
<annevk>
smaug____: from what perspective would it be "so different"?
15:26
<annevk>
smaug____: same-origin vs CORS is nearly identical for most purposes
15:26
<smaug____>
why do we have different fetch based on the type
15:27
<smaug____>
I would expect fetch type depend on some option passed to ctor, but not on the worker type
15:28
<smaug____>
like WorkerOptions having fetchType or some such. But I totally don't know the background for all this
16:48
<annevk>
TabAtkins: so I think "nay Rust" was actually correct
16:49
<annevk>
TabAtkins: having done some searching, "née" seems to about names, whereas "nay" means "or rather"
16:49
annevk
changes it back
16:55
<nox>
annevk: Speaking of née/nay, your name is pronounced like "année" right?
16:56
<annevk>
nox: annuh
16:56
<nox>
Mmmh. Is that a "uh" that the French me can never succeed in pronouncing correctly?
16:57
<annevk>
nox: annè
16:57
<nox>
Oh! Ok! That I can do. :D
16:57
<annevk>
personally I think I say it more "uh" but "eh" works
17:04
<annevk>
mounir: I can, I thought you wanted Domenic to sign off
17:05
<jgraham>
annevk: Tiy can't really say either neé or nay in that context
17:05
<jgraham>
I think the word you are looking for is "or"
17:05
<annevk>
jgraham: Tiy?
17:06
<Domenic>
mounir: annevk: still digging myself out of the post-TC39 email pile, but I plan to do Streams and HTML today, so likely to happen...
17:06
<jgraham>
annevk: You, but shifted one key left :)
17:07
<annevk>
jgraham: I'm not looking for "or"
17:08
<annevk>
jgraham: I'm looking for "or rather" or "^H^H^H^H^H" expressed in a word
17:08
<jgraham>
annevk: A nay B, implies not A but B.
17:09
<annevk>
jgraham: yeah
17:09
<annevk>
jgraham: that's good
17:09
<jgraham>
There are still browsers written in C++ though
17:09
<annevk>
I know
17:09
<jgraham>
So it doesn't make sense
17:09
<annevk>
that's why there's parenthesis
17:09
<jgraham>
Right, it still doesn't make sense
17:11
<annevk>
jgraham: I guess I disagree, even though I'm probably wrong
17:14
<annevk>
Domenic: I take that as that you'll merge them
17:14
<Domenic>
annevk: yeah
17:46
<Domenic>
nice! https://github.com/blog/2178-multiple-assignees-on-issues-and-pull-requests?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=multiple-assignees
17:47
<Garbee>
Good to see GH finally giving the issue tracker some TLC lately.
17:48
<Garbee>
Thanks for sharing Domenic.
18:11
<TabAtkins>
annevk: "nay" can't be used to mean "other" in *that* way, at least in English as I know it.
18:11
<TabAtkins>
(But as someone correctly pointed out, if née *is* used, it's the wrong way around - it indicates maiden names, old company names, etc.
18:12
<TabAtkins>
)
18:14
<tantek>
nay pretty much means voting "no" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/nay
18:18
<TabAtkins>
Yeah, I'm trying to come up with a usage in my vernacular that isn't implicitly just referring to "yay/nay".
18:19
<Domenic>
smaug____: ping on https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/1284
18:20
<TabAtkins>
annevk: Anyway, the most reasonable wording my vernacular would be "(or now Rust)" or similar.
18:27
<smaug____>
Domenic: back from sauna. looking...
18:28
smaug____
always clicks the wrong link when is supposed to review something
18:37
<smaug____>
Domenic: does the patch need some merging
18:37
<Domenic>
smaug____: what do you mean?
18:38
<Domenic>
smaug____: it is unmerged pending review, if that's what you mean
18:38
<smaug____>
Domenic: I mean if I look at the latest spec, there are some steps in the algorithm I don't see in that patch
18:39
<smaug____>
like there should be "Set history.state to state." somewhere there
18:39
<Domenic>
smaug____: that is just GitHub showing insufficient context in the diff :(
18:39
<Domenic>
those "expand" buttons do not work
18:40
<smaug____>
ugh
18:40
<smaug____>
and we really want to use github :/
18:40
<smaug____>
ok, I guess r+
18:40
<smaug____>
can I somehow download raw patch
18:44
<Domenic>
smaug____: yes, https://patch-diff.githubusercontent.com/raw/whatwg/html/pull/1284.patch
18:44
<Domenic>
which is what you get redirected to if you add .patch to the end of the PR URL, i.e. https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/1284
18:44
<Domenic>
er
18:44
<Domenic>
https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/1284.patch
18:48
<smaug____>
aha, that is something I've been told many times but I always forget
18:49
<smaug____>
but ok, the raw patch isn't really more useful either
18:54
<Domenic>
yeah, local git client or compiled results is kind of the only way
18:55
<Domenic>
I'd like to get a CI server that automatically serves us the compiled spec, actually
18:59
<jyasskin>
Domenic: For Bikeshed, I think we can hack http://hg.csswg.org/dev/bikeshed-web/ to do the test, and have the 'Details' link be the compiled spec. That server already has URLs that'll serve the output.
19:09
<Domenic>
jyasskin: oh, cool. My plan was to have Travis CI use https://zeit.co/now/#whats-now to stand up a quick static file server with the results that Travis compiled, which if I understand correctly that service will host indefinitely for us.
19:10
<Domenic>
Or we could just ssh the results onto the final server; that's what streams does for PRs that are based on in-repo branches (instead of forks): https://github.com/whatwg/streams/blob/master/deploy.sh#L60-L71 + https://streams.spec.whatwg.org/branch-snapshots/?C=M;O=D
21:45
<jyasskin>
Domenic: The existing URLs are like https://api.csswg.org/bikeshed/?url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jyasskin/permissions/ua-can-return-anything/index.bs, which you can paste into the PR description. The main benefit from having api.csswg.org/bikeshed be the CI server is that it could set a "commit status" into github so the link is accessible even if
21:45
<jyasskin>
you forget to write it in the PR.
22:02
<Domenic>
oh very interesting...
22:53
<jsbell>
Any bikeshed experts know if you can get <ol class=algorithm> from a markdown 1. ... -style list, or should I be regretting removing the markup?
22:57
<jyasskin>
TabAtkins: ^ (but I don't think you can get [class=Algorithm] from markdown.
22:58
<TabAtkins>
Nah, you gotta wrap it in a div
23:00
<jsbell>
TabAtkins: Alas, that doesn't appear to slap the class on the ol (which makes substeps more visible); bs bug?
23:00
<jsbell>
er, should I file a bs issue to suggest this
23:00
<TabAtkins>
The substeps become mroe visible if it's on the ol? Is this a feature I wrote and then forgot about?
23:02
<jsbell>
TabAtkins: It's in W3C's stylesheet... e.g. https://w3c.github.io/IndexedDB/ and (once respec is done its think) jump to e.g. "Object Store Storage Operation"
23:03
<TabAtkins>
Oh! I didn't realize that would happen!
23:05
<jsbell>
In obviously related news, suggestions for https://github.com/w3c/IndexedDB/blob/bikeshed/index.bs welcome before I merge it
23:10
<jyasskin>
Documented at https://w3c.github.io/tr-design/src/sample.html#algorithm
23:43
<TabAtkins>
jyasskin: I fixed the issue in Bikeshed's stylesheet, and opened a PR for it on the W3C's stylesheet.
23:46
<TabAtkins>
jyasskin: So you can use a wrapper div
23:47
<jyasskin>
Tell jsbell when he gets back.