| 07:05 | <annevk> | JakeA: thanks for https://github.com/w3c/webappsec-mixed-content/issues/7 |
| 07:05 | <annevk> | JakeA: was thinking about raising that issue this morning in that exact repository |
| 07:11 | <JakeA> | No problem! Still worried about the practicality of it, but I get where you're coming from |
| 07:18 | <annevk> | Yeah, well, folks should just move to HTTPS really |
| 07:19 | <annevk> | That we present HTTP as more favorable than mixed content is part of the problem, they're sorta the same |
| 07:21 | <JakeA> | We may have made that change in Chrome, or we've certainly been moving in that direction |
| 07:25 | <annevk> | Hmm, https://github.com/whatwg/dom/commit/9e3ce67c7927d6642646a3d0c84fa6d8f7926cfa no longer points to the correct PR |
| 07:25 | <annevk> | So removing the PR annotation might be problematic? |
| 07:27 | <Domenic> | Wasn't that in the pre-green-merged-button days? |
| 07:28 | <Domenic> | It might also just be a GitHub bug.... no idea why tab's fork took over the pointer |
| 07:33 | <annevk> | Yeah could be, though April seems pretty recent |
| 08:11 | <annevk> | Domenic: accessible nodes have their own tree as well with focusing and such? |
| 08:11 | <annevk> | Domenic: so now we have shadow trees, accessible trees, and normal trees? |
| 08:11 | <Domenic> | annevk: apparently. I am not super-jazzed about them having parallel concepts, *especially* event dispatch. |
| 08:11 | <annevk> | Domenic: that sounds very complicated |
| 08:12 | <Domenic> | annevk: part of the idea, I think, is to allow adding a "virtual" ax tree underneath a canvas |
| 08:12 | <Domenic> | It *is* apparently exposing the primitives that browsers already implement |
| 08:12 | <annevk> | Domenic: all browsers? |
| 08:12 | <annevk> | Domenic: I doubt we have something like that, unless they mean XBL, which is shadow trees |
| 08:13 | <Domenic> | annevk: hmm i'm not sure. but i believe all the implementers are involved... |
| 08:13 | <annevk> | Domenic: but nobody with a background in API design is on the list of editors |
| 08:16 | <Ms2ger> | https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2016Aug/0017.html |
| 08:18 | <annevk> | Domenic: also, I thought <canvas> was fine with just having an actual subtree |
| 08:19 | <Domenic> | annevk: yeah, that's why they asked for a review... |
| 08:19 | <Domenic> | Not sure what's the problem with canvas subtrees |
| 08:19 | <Domenic> | Ms2ger: this seems boring, why did you send me a boring thing |
| 08:20 | <Ms2ger> | Domenic, maybe this is better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6EAWMscDvI |
| 08:20 | <Domenic> | awwwww |
| 08:21 | <mkwst> | annevk: Do you happen to know whether I need to poke at you, TabAtkins, or tobie to get Fetch into Bikeshed's anchor data list? |
| 08:21 | <Ms2ger> | Ah, mkwst, I was looking for you earlier |
| 08:21 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: oh joy, more formatting requirements on drafts and charters to get patent protection |
| 08:21 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: what could go wrong |
| 08:22 | <mkwst> | Is it a data problem with the spec's markup, or a specref/bikeshed issue? |
| 08:22 | <annevk> | mkwst: TabAtkins |
| 08:22 | <mkwst> | Ms2ger: What can I do for you? |
| 08:22 | <annevk> | mkwst: though he might say that I should convert Fetch to bikeshed |
| 08:22 | <Ms2ger> | mkwst, https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/1142 |
| 08:23 | <Domenic> | specifically https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/1142#issuecomment-216990289 i would imagine |
| 08:23 | <mkwst> | He probably will. *shrug* I'd help if that's the direction you want to do. Having a separate build system just for Fetch is annoying. :) |
| 08:26 | <annevk> | mkwst: it's not used just for Fetch and I don't disagree, but conversion is error prone and takes a lot of time |
| 08:26 | <mkwst> | annevk: Well, on _my_ computer, it's just Fetch. :) |
| 08:26 | <annevk> | It took months to fix regressions in URL and DOM |
| 08:27 | <annevk> | And they were only fixed thanks to careful reviewers, of which Fetch doesn't have too many |
| 08:27 | <Domenic> | DOM still has lots of formatting regressions, I noticed yesterday :( |
| 08:27 | <mkwst> | Fair. I suspect Fetch is contained enough that we'd be able to do it reasonably well, but I would have said the same about URL. |
| 08:27 | <Domenic> | Half the methods are defined as bold code, the other half as bold |
| 08:28 | <Domenic> | We could do what Tobie's doing for Web IDL and work on an XSLT transform :O |
| 08:31 | <Domenic> | ohoho fighting words ^_^ https://github.com/tabatkins/bikeshed/issues/772#issuecomment-237487886 |
| 08:33 | <Domenic> | Hmm except for scheduling meetings Tokyo is a pretty great timezone. You get to watch the Europe people waking up and answering your issues, then the US people all send you email while you sleep which you can batch-process in the morning. |
| 08:34 | <tobie> | I know you're joking, but frankly, XSLT is a pain. The only reason it made sense for webidl is because webidl was already using it to convert from XML and I could hack on a pre-existing sheet. |
| 08:40 | <annevk> | Domenic: Europe has similar advantages with London being the best I think, but Tokyo et al is sure nice too |
| 08:56 | <tobie> | Basically, any place where you get to batch-process emails coming from the US is good. |
| 08:58 | <tobie> | It would be interesting to compare actual output of remote engineers based in the vicinity of their HQ's timezone. |
| 08:58 | <tobie> | I'm ready to bet those with very little work hour overlap have an edge. |
| 08:59 | <tobie> | On the other, their network is probably poorer, and so they might have less leverage. |
| 09:20 | <stennowork> | i don't know if this is the right channel to ask, but is there any sensible explanation why 'contenteditable' is an 'enumerated' attribute and not a boolean attribute? |
| 09:21 | <stennowork> | given that its enumerated values are exactly 'true' and 'false' |
| 09:28 | <Ms2ger> | Legacy |
| 09:28 | <stennowork> | legacy? wasn't it added in html5? |
| 09:34 | <stennowork> | hmm i see that html4 doesn't even define a boolean datatype |
| 09:34 | <Ms2ger> | It existed long before it had a spec |
| 09:35 | <stennowork> | i see, fair |
| 09:35 | <stennowork> | thanks for the explanation |
| 09:36 | <stennowork> | so i could send a proposal to change it to boolean? |
| 09:37 | <Ms2ger> | You could, but it won't be accepted |
| 09:37 | <Ms2ger> | That would break existing sites |
| 09:37 | <stennowork> | hmm aw |
| 09:39 | <Ms2ger> | Also, isn't there an implicit third state "inherit"? |
| 09:41 | <stennowork> | hmm thats right |
| 09:41 | <stennowork> | i must've overread that |
| 09:41 | <stennowork> | my bad |
| 10:04 | <botie> | hsivonen, at 2016-07-28 03:02 UTC, MikeSmith said: multiple reports about validator.nu redirecting to hsivonen.fi https://github.com/validator/validator/issues/325 |
| 10:05 | <annevk> | Domenic: other things to consider if you're still in Tokyo, some kind of PromiseResponse subclass that fetch() returns on which we expose 1xx responses and push promises |
| 10:05 | <annevk> | Domenic: both of which are effectively async arrays |
| 10:06 | <annevk> | Domenic: if you're still in the office in Tokyo* |
| 10:34 | <smaug____> | does anyone know if there is some better code indexing tool for webkit than trac.webkit.org ? |
| 10:37 | <beverloo> | I usually look at the GitHub mirror - https://github.com/WebKit/webkit |
| 10:41 | <smaug____> | I asked for better tool ;) |
| 10:41 | <smaug____> | I wouldn't consider github being good with anything |
| 10:44 | <smaug____> | something like searchfox.org or mxr or dxr or google code search? |
| 10:49 | <smaug____> | anyone with webkit? |
| 10:49 | <smaug____> | beverloo ? |
| 10:49 | <smaug____> | What does data:text/html,<script>document.write("onwebkitTransitionEnd" in document.documentElement); </script> say? |
| 10:50 | <smaug____> | and what if that is onwebkittransitionend |
| 10:51 | <beverloo> | smaug____, my main use is finding specific bits of code, but I used to be fairly well acquainted with WebKit code anyway. GitHub works fine for that |
| 10:51 | <beverloo> | Not sure if there's anything around that really indexes the code |
| 10:52 | smaug____ | is so used to mxr and now searchfox.org. searchfox.org particularly has rather good UI for blame. |
| 10:52 | <smaug____> | beverloo: right. anyhow, I assume you have webkit there? |
| 10:52 | <smaug____> | could you test data:text/html,<script>document.write("onwebkitTransitionEnd" in document.documentElement); </script> |
| 10:52 | <smaug____> | and then data:text/html,<script>document.write("onwebkittransitionend" in document.documentElement); </script> |
| 10:53 | <beverloo> | No, sorry, I don't |
| 10:53 | <smaug____> | ah, k |
| 11:35 | <smaug____> | hsivonen: ping |
| 11:36 | <smaug____> | hsivonen: ejpbruel in moznet#developers has some questions to you |
| 11:57 | <MikeSmith> | smaug____: false in webkit for data:text/html,<script>document.write("onwebkitTransitionEnd" in document.documentElement); </script> |
| 11:58 | <MikeSmith> | smaug____: true in webkit for data:text/html,<script>document.write("onwebkittransitionend" in document.documentElement); </script> |
| 11:58 | <smaug____> | MikeSmith: thanks (though I got the answer elsewhere) |
| 11:58 | <annevk> | I forgot to comment on that bug |
| 11:58 | <annevk> | The suggested capitalization of event handlers seemed extremely suspect |
| 11:59 | <annevk> | Glad testing reveals WebKit is somewhat reasonable |
| 11:59 | <smaug____> | I wish there was some website where one could run scripts in various browser engines |
| 11:59 | <smaug____> | I don't need UI usually |
| 11:59 | <annevk> | smaug____: browserscope? |
| 12:00 | <annevk> | smaug____: it's not ideal I guess for just running scripts, but maybe someone has written something on top... |
| 12:02 | <smaug____> | haven't used that for ages |
| 12:02 | <smaug____> | it was a bit heavy and wasn't it using Flash |
| 12:02 | <smaug____> | but perhaps it has changed |
| 12:02 | <annevk> | I don't think I have Flash enabled, but it does require an extension to be installed |
| 12:04 | <smaug____> | ahaa |
| 12:04 | <smaug____> | and google account to log in |
| 12:04 | smaug____ | creates yet another random google account |
| 12:06 | <smaug____> | oh, it is very different what it used to be |
| 12:08 | <smaug____> | I thought it used to let one to load random url and it showed the UI of the browser |
| 12:10 | <annevk> | Nah, you can interact with the browser, it's quite nice |
| 12:10 | <annevk> | Although the debugging tools on Edge 14 make it crash |
| 12:10 | <annevk> | At least the last time I tried, but Edge 13 works fine |
| 12:11 | <smaug____> | hmm, how do I get the UI? |
| 12:11 | <smaug____> | I must be missing something |
| 12:16 | <annevk> | smaug____: apologies, I meant browserstack |
| 12:16 | <smaug____> | ahaa |
| 12:16 | <annevk> | smaug____: jst can give you credentials if you don't have any, we have some kind of deal with them |
| 12:16 | <smaug____> | right, this is the MS' site |
| 13:27 | <annevk> | JakeA: nice summary about the service worker meeting |
| 13:28 | <JakeA> | Cheers! |
| 16:31 | <benydc> | Hi All |
| 16:40 | <benydc> | I have a question about fetch http client |
| 16:41 | <benydc> | I want to make repeated requests but without overflowing the memory, how can I close the connections and clear the memory? |
| 16:50 | <annevk> | benydc: memory? |
| 16:51 | <benydc> | I have screenshot |
| 18:13 | <TabAtkins> | mkwst, annevk: While I can put Fetch into Bikeshed, as it's not a Bikeshedded spec and doesn't independently follow Bikeshed's dfn-markup rules, the definitions won't be exposed in any useful manner. They'll all be "dfn" type and unexported. |
| 18:23 | <mkwst> | TabAtkins: What's the minimum that needs to happen to make the import useful? |
| 18:23 | <TabAtkins> | mkwst: Commenting in the Bikeshed bug that I just saw right now. |
| 18:23 | <mkwst> | s/<dfn/<dfn data-export/g ? :) |
| 18:24 | <mkwst> | Ok. If you add it to the automatic importing thing, I'll send annevk patches that do whatever you're about to tell me to do. Then it'll Just Work(tm), I'm sure. |
| 18:25 | <TabAtkins> | Correct. |
| 18:25 | <TabAtkins> | Whenever it gets fetched by Shepherd, which in the worst case is overnight. |
| 18:32 | <mkwst> | Wunderbar. I'll poke at that at some point, thanks! |
| 18:33 | <mkwst> | I'm sure annevk is going to love a million data attributes cluttering his pristine HTML. :) |
| 18:33 | <TabAtkins> | He already handwrites a bunch of stuff that would have been omitted by a decent processor, so he's bringing it on himself. ^_^ |
| 21:07 | <wanderview> | JakeA: are you awake? |
| 21:12 | <wanderview> | JakeA: I wrote my question up as an issue: https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/943 |
| 21:49 | <JakeA> | wanderview: will read properly tomorrow, but your idea seems right at a glance |
| 23:01 | <gsnedders> | where does @apply come frm? |