| 02:24 | <MikeSmith> | TabAtkins: as far “authors must” being a conformance class you can’t actually test, that’s why it is better for such requirements to be stated as “documents must”, which can be tested (and which the HTML checker and CSS do actually check) |
| 02:27 | <MikeSmith> | but I think if a spec uses “authors must” it should also make clear what that means |
| 02:27 | <MikeSmith> | for example, the HTML says this: |
| 02:28 | <MikeSmith> | “Conforming documents are those that comply with all the conformance criteria for documents. For readability, some of these conformance requirements are phrased as conformance requirements on authors; such requirements are implicitly requirements on documents”… “For example, if a requirement states that "authors must not use the foobar element", it would imply that documents are not allowed to |
| 02:28 | <MikeSmith> | contain elements named foobar.” |
| 02:28 | <MikeSmith> | https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/infrastructure.html#conforming-documents |
| 02:30 | <MikeSmith> | astearns: ⬆ |
| 02:40 | <MikeSmith> | anyway, the HTML spec also does have a few cases of such “authors must” requirements that are not actually machine-checkable/testable, and that’s OK too |
| 09:58 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: I went with ハロー・ワールド: https://hsivonen.fi/rs/encoding_rs/#examples |
| 09:59 | MikeSmith | looks |
| 09:59 | <hsivonen> | the streaming example is hilariously verbose compared to the non-streaming one |
| 09:59 | <hsivonen> | streaming is hard |
| 10:00 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 10:00 | <MikeSmith> | I thought Rust made everything better! |
| 10:00 | <MikeSmith> | :) |
| 10:01 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: It does! After this, java.nio.charset feels sad. |
| 10:01 | <MikeSmith> | oh well yeah |
| 10:01 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: though that's partly because this API design is informed by what I perceive as design mistakes in java.nio.charset. |
| 10:01 | <MikeSmith> | not sure what else could be much worse |
| 10:01 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 10:04 | <hsivonen> | aside: I'm trying to migrate the backend of Validator.nu to Ubuntu 16.04 and IPv6 connectivity |
| 10:04 | <MikeSmith> | oh cool |
| 10:04 | <hsivonen> | for some reason, ip6tables doesn't appear to work symmetrically with iptables |
| 10:05 | <MikeSmith> | oh? glad I have not had to mess with it too much then |
| 10:05 | <hsivonen> | I guess I'll just omit the firewall |
| 10:05 | <MikeSmith> | I find that every time I need to use iptables I just have to re-read the docs anyway |
| 10:06 | <hsivonen> | I wonder how much the slowness of IPv6 deployment is about stuff being subtly weird compared to IPv4 |
| 10:06 | <MikeSmith> | a lot I bet |
| 10:07 | <MikeSmith> | but there are many things slowing it down I think |
| 10:07 | <MikeSmith> | e.g., try accessing anything at *.whatwg.org through IPv6 |
| 10:08 | <hsivonen> | does dreamhost not offer IPv6 or has whoever owns the whatwg.org server config not gotten around to listening on IPv6? |
| 10:09 | <MikeSmith> | Dreamhost apparently claims they have IPv6 working for but all my /etc/hosts on IPv6-environment machines that I want to get to whatwg.org stuff from, I have had to force use of the IPv4 address instead |
| 10:09 | <hsivonen> | validator.nu itself has been available over IPv6 for 3 weeks or so now |
| 10:09 | <MikeSmith> | ah OK |
| 10:10 | <MikeSmith> | the W3C vnu instances are all still running under IPv4 but that is a general issue with lack of support for IPv6 in all MIT CSAIL networks |
| 10:11 | <hsivonen> | hmm. I remember reading some IPv6 comments by an MIT network admin |
| 10:11 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 10:11 | <hsivonen> | it was critital of IPv6, but I thought MIT had deployed it anyway |
| 10:11 | <MikeSmith> | they had tried but he had to roll it back |
| 10:13 | <MikeSmith> | I think one big problem was with Windows machines, dozens of them end up flooding the network with junk if are running in an IPv6 environment |
| 11:46 | <nimai> | I'm front-end developer. How can I contribute to HTML standard? Oh I read the faqs, but I seem to be lost in details |
| 14:52 | <annevk> | nimai: did you look at the GitHub repo? |
| 14:52 | <annevk> | nimai: the README has a few suggestions |
| 14:53 | <annevk> | nimai: if you remain unsure, a good first step might be to take some time and read through it, or parts of it |
| 15:22 | <nimai> | thank you annevk. I hope to find something to work upon after looking into the repo |
| 15:27 | <annevk> | nimai: cool, succes |
| 21:35 | <caitp> | what do web developers feel is missing from html? |