| 08:03 | <hsivonen> | Has the scheduling of the speculative parsing meeting progressed from TBD? |
| 08:08 | <annevk> | I haven't heard anything and the wiki page doesn't say anything either (it's now protected though so I guess they won't allow more sessions) |
| 11:57 | <smaug____> | does wpt have something like info("dump this message to terminal"); ? |
| 11:58 | <annevk> | smaug____: I'd ask in irc.w3.org #testing, but I don't think so |
| 11:59 | <annevk> | smaug____: you can certainly print from server-side scripts though |
| 11:59 | <smaug____> | mochitest has info() and it is quite useful |
| 12:48 | <annevk> | hsivonen: I don't see it on https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2020/SessionIdeas so I guess it hasn't made it in |
| 12:48 | <annevk> | The breakout schedule is published on https://www.w3.org/2020/10/TPAC/breakout-schedule.html#calendar now |
| 12:50 | <hsivonen> | annevk: thanks. I wonder if I should attend Client Hints (which overlaps a team meeting) |
| 12:50 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: are you still pursuing the speculative parsing breakout? |
| 12:51 | <annevk> | hsivonen: it would be kinda good if someone from Mozilla were there at least |
| 12:52 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: hmmmm. I was going to. but I think I missed the deadline to propose breakout sessions :( |
| 12:53 | <zcorpan> | I proposed IntersectionObserver breakout last night, but forgot to propose one for speculative parsing |
| 12:53 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: I see |
| 12:58 | <zcorpan> | should we ask dom if we can still add breakout sessions for things in https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/5856 ? |
| 13:00 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: ^ |
| 13:01 | <annevk> | zcorpan: it seems Joey had a bunch of constraints there; we could also just do an ad-hoc thing the week after |
| 13:01 | <annevk> | oh wait, he doesn't seem to mind |
| 13:04 | <zcorpan> | annevk: the week after doesn't work as well for me unfortunately |
| 13:06 | <zcorpan> | I'll email dom |
| 13:51 | <zcorpan> | annevk: hsivonen: dom said we can propose it. should we add a "WHATWG" breakout, and try to cover all things in issue 5856? |
| 13:53 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: not sure how much time we'd need for all the topics, but WFM in principle |
| 13:59 | <annevk> | zcorpan: sure |
| 14:01 | <hsivonen> | As for timing conflicts, next week, I have other meetings on Tuesday from 15:00 Sweden time to 15:30 Sweden time. and on Wednesday from 15:00 Sweden time to 16:00 Sweden time. |
| 14:09 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: ok, I can mention those conflicts to dom |
| 14:16 | <zcorpan> | Title: WHATWG |
| 14:16 | <zcorpan> | Proposer: Simon Pieters |
| 14:16 | <zcorpan> | Email address of proposer: simon⊙bc |
| 14:16 | <zcorpan> | Summary (one-sentence or so): Discuss lazy-loading, reusable image fetching logic, HTML speculative parsing, render blocking stylesheets, and beforematch event. See https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/5856 |
| 14:16 | <zcorpan> | Type of session (e.g.: open discussion, talk, panel, etc.): open discussion |
| 14:16 | <zcorpan> | Goals: Make progress on the listed issues. |
| 14:16 | <zcorpan> | shortname: whatwg |
| 14:16 | <zcorpan> | Apply to be a #Public_Breakout (breakouts open to the world at large, not just the W3C community): yes |
| 15:24 | <annevk> | Domenic: https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/autoland/rev/bab939b79a05 (patch to disable AppCache storage; we'll still expose a no-op API aiui) |
| 15:25 | <annevk> | patch that landed and is on its way to release* |
| 15:28 | <Domenic> | annevk: very nice |
| 15:57 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: about adding a breakout session, will ask too |
| 16:04 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: dom says he’s added it to the schedule |
| 16:05 | <MikeSmith> | https://www.w3.org/2020/10/TPAC/breakout-schedule.html#whatwg |
| 16:06 | <MikeSmith> | 26 October 15:00–16:00 UTC |
| 18:02 | <zcorpan> | does somebody have a link to the webappsec tpac meeting? |
| 18:03 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: I am looking now too |
| 18:04 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: https://www.w3.org/2011/webappsec/webex.html |
| 18:04 | <MikeSmith> | ah cool |
| 18:22 | <hober> | i thought it was cancelled |
| 18:34 | <MikeSmith> | hober: yeah we ending up finding that out |
| 19:47 | <croraf> | Can someone clarify me the usefulness of the "label"'s form attribute? |
| 19:47 | <croraf> | Is it only for the screen readers? |
| 19:48 | <croraf> | Does the screen reader reads that aloud? |
| 19:48 | <croraf> | I mean if the screen reader reads the bound input element aloud I don't see the point of the "form" attribute? |
| 19:52 | <andreubotella> | That's not a `form` attribute on the label element, but a `form` WebIDL attribute (a `form` field in the DOM object) |
| 20:16 | <croraf> | I'm confused about the difference. |
| 20:16 | <croraf> | Does the label element have the "for" attribute? |
| 20:16 | <croraf> | andreubotella, |
| 20:17 | <andreubotella> | The `for` attribute, sure, not `form` |
| 20:17 | <croraf> | So w3schools is wrong here: https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_label.asp |
| 20:18 | <croraf> | Does "label" not have the "form" attribute, along with the "for" attribute? |
| 20:18 | <croraf> | MDN only indicates the "for" attribute: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/label |
| 20:19 | <croraf> | Check this example: https://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_label_form.asp |
| 20:20 | <andreubotella> | it's not listed as an attribute for `label` in the element's section, or on obsolete features |
| 20:21 | <andreubotella> | so unless there's something I'm not aware of, w3schools is wrong |
| 20:21 | <croraf> | They even note that all browsers support it. |
| 20:22 | <andreubotella> | What does it mean for a browser to support an attribute, though? |
| 20:23 | <andreubotella> | If the attribute has things it triggers, that's one thing, but here there's nothing it triggers. |
| 20:23 | <andreubotella> | Browsers will let you set whatever attributes you want, they'll just do nothing with them other than listing them in the DOM node. |
| 20:24 | <croraf> | Well, that was my initial question, what does "form" attribute on the "label" give you. |
| 20:24 | <croraf> | It looks like it is available, so it should give something. |
| 20:25 | <croraf> | It seems to allow the labels (and inputs) to be outside of the form and still belong to the form. |
| 20:25 | <croraf> | For the inputs for example, they will be submitted when the form is submitted. |
| 20:25 | <croraf> | For the labels I dont know, perhaps something there is. |
| 20:27 | <andreubotella> | Not really, if you check the `form` field on the DOM node, you'll get the form that the `for`-element belongs to, whether you use the `form` attribute or not. |
| 20:27 | <andreubotella> | on the DOM node for the label, that is |
| 20:28 | <croraf> | (sorry if I don't understand you completely, cause I'm very tired) but check this: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/forms.html#the-label-element |
| 20:29 | <andreubotella> | yeah, there's a `form` WebIDL attribute, but `form` isn't listed as an attribute on the element |
| 20:29 | <croraf> | https://pasteboard.co/JwzgFMr.png |
| 20:29 | <andreubotella> | once again, WebIDL's terminology is confusing |
| 20:30 | <croraf> | I see, what you are saying. |
| 20:30 | <croraf> | So let's say you put a label outside a form, ok? |
| 20:30 | <croraf> | It won't have it's form field pointing to the form? |
| 20:31 | <croraf> | If the label is in the form it will have the "form" field pointing to the form? |
| 20:32 | <andreubotella> | if the label is outside a form, it'll point to a form if you have a `for` attribute pointing to a control in the form |
| 20:32 | <croraf> | OK, what if you dont have that for attribute and you put a "form" attribute"? |
| 20:32 | <croraf> | This shouldn't cause any effect? |
| 20:33 | <andreubotella> | it returns null |
| 20:34 | <croraf> | You tried to put a "form" attribute on a label outside the form. And retrieve it's form field using JS? |
| 20:34 | <andreubotella> | yeah, I just did that on firefox |
| 20:34 | <andreubotella> | let me get my chrome and webkit |
| 20:34 | <croraf> | Then, w3schools is awfully wrong. |
| 20:35 | <andreubotella> | yeah, it is |
| 20:37 | <andreubotella> | I understand that sometimes the spec text is intimidating, but even the domintro (the "for web developers" block) talks about the form owner of the associated form control, not about being directly associated to a form |
| 20:39 | <croraf> | andreubotella, thanks a lot |
| 20:39 | <croraf> | I tried putting label in the form without the for |
| 20:39 | <croraf> | And even if it is in the form, that doesnt mean its .form is pointing to the form |
| 20:39 | <croraf> | It needs to have the for pointing to the <input> that belongs to the form. |
| 20:40 | <croraf> | Right? |
| 20:41 | <andreubotella> | Looks like it |
| 20:41 | <croraf> | The input on the other hand implicitly belongs to the form if it is nested within one. And explicitly if it is outside of one. |
| 20:42 | <croraf> | Cool. |
| 20:42 | <croraf> | andreubotella, thanks a lot again |
| 20:43 | <andreubotella> | sure |
| 23:43 | <MikeSmith> | miketaylr: if you still lived in New York, we’d have the fun of calling you Mike East |
| 23:43 | <MikeSmith> | but in reality I guess Mike West is the real Mike East |
| 23:44 | <MikeSmith> | so to clear up the confusion, I think from now on we need to call you Sonny Red, and Mike West has to be Sonny Black |
