00:55 | <waldemar> | Yup, the time zone situation in Lebanon is quite a mess at the moment: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/27/lebanon-in-two-different-time-zones-as-government-disagrees-on-daylight-savings.html |
01:50 | <justingrant> | It amazes me how governments—repeatedly—make last-minute changes to DST and then are shocked, just shocked, about the tech turmoil that inevitably ensues. Brazil in 2019 stopped using DST with only 6 months' notice, and that was still a mess. Countries really should be giving 2-3 years' heads up to allow updating all the software that was playing by the old time zone rules. IoT and mobile devices are particularly challenging because they often require OS or firmware updates to get new time zone rules, and many device vendors' support budgets are skimpy. FWIW, For developers who know what behavior they want in cases like that, there's an This won't help cases like Lebanon's which have minimal (or negative!) advance notice, but should help developers find and recover from changes like Brazil's where changes are announced a few months in advance: long enough for IANA Time Zone Database updates to be rolled out into ECMAScript implementations. Thank you for coming to my TED talk. ⏰ |
16:38 | <Michael Ficarra> | that's a step too far for me already |
16:38 | <Michael Ficarra> | only nats are real |
16:38 | <Michael Ficarra> | show me negative 3 apples, you can't |
16:51 | <bakkot> | release notes for safari 16.4 claim they're shipping Array#group , which I assume means Array.prototype.group , i.e. the version Firefox had to unship - can anyone confirm? https://webkit.org/blog/13966/webkit-features-in-safari-16-4/ |
17:27 | <bakkot> | in fairness the proposal is stage 3 with those semantics |
17:27 | <bakkot> | if we wanted people to not ship it we should have updated the proposal to not say that |
17:28 | <littledan> | well, we agreed on "requires coordination" for this but I didn't update the PR to the proposals repo to add group, so it didn't land yet... |
17:28 | <littledan> | oops |
17:29 | <bakkot> | I think people treat the proposal's own repo as the source of truth, note the tc39/proposals repo |
17:30 | <bakkot> | at least, I do |
17:32 | <Chris de Almeida> | https://twitter.com/robpalmer2/status/1640430227238055938 |
18:13 | <Michael Ficarra> | Apple reps have been in the meetings with us where we discussed the web compat issues, it's not like they can say they weren't aware of this |
18:14 | <Rob Palmer> | I brought it up here in Feb but didn't think to check the proposal repo for accuracy. https://matrix.to/#/!WgJwmjBNZEXhJnXHXw:matrix.org/$_HQv9BW3cbGiby101Adx_JNKGGNoVtUwbOpynC080Uc?via=matrix.org&via=igalia.com&via=mozilla.org |
18:15 | <bakkot> | Apple reps have been in the meetings with us where we discussed the web compat issues, it's not like they can say they weren't aware of this |
18:16 | <Michael Ficarra> | bakkot: this was no small fact! |
19:10 | <Ashley Claymore> | Never short sold an apple? |
19:11 | <Ashley Claymore> | A run on apples nearly bankrupt me |
19:12 | <littledan> | How many bits would it take to express this fact? I'd reckon, with an efficient encoding of TC39 Discourse, fewer than 50. |
19:12 | <littledan> | so I'd say this is a relatively small fact |
20:22 | <shu> | I dunno I can definitely legitimately claim to not be aware of every fact discussed at every meeting I was present at |
20:24 | <shu> | has anyone reached out to JSC folks yet other than rob's post? |
20:25 | <shu> | i'll email them |
20:27 | <littledan> | Good, I just pinged them in Slack too, to be sure |
20:27 | <littledan> | (WebKit Slack is open for people to join) |
20:34 | <littledan> | yeah, I got in touch with them; they were just unaware of the issue |
20:50 | <littledan> | msaboff reports that they will unship at their earliest convenience |
21:12 | <bakkot> | maybe it will actually just work and all the websites will update and then we can actually call it group |
21:12 | <bakkot> | (I don't actually think that's viable) |
21:13 | <littledan> | The issues were multiple https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1f11_k371JdUG1NdNbaW-qKHRFtlX8v64fM1qt41VNio/edit#slide=id.g192f2ba8c8d_0_0 |