2025-07-01 [20:58:12.0154] I have definitely never heard anyone say the word milliard or billiard though [20:59:23.0525] so I remain feeling like this is just some long troll being played on Americans [23:35:05.0082] upon moving to Germany, I was confronted with the million/milliard/billion distinction fairly early on 2025-07-02 [05:51:38.0499] https://github.com/webpack/webpack/pull/16567 webpack merged support for import defer proposal! [09:11:17.0335] Would someone here have permissions to make mgaudet and I collaborators on https://github.com/tc39/proposal-error-capturestacktrace? Neither of us has access to the settings since the transfer to the tc39 org, and I'd like to fix up the deploy of the spec text to gh-pages. [09:14:08.0533] mgaudet has write permission, and now you do as well [09:14:14.0782] * mgaudet already had write permission, and now you do as well [09:17:45.0633] Thank you, but I'm still not seeing the `settings`, does that require a separate permission? [09:54:41.0486] oh.. yes [09:55:34.0894] try now [11:13:32.0552] Working now, thank you for the help :) 2025-07-03 [06:04:20.0409] congratulations @robpalme:matrix.org! 🥳 [06:47:23.0512] i feel like i missed an announcement [06:50:22.0882] The 129th General Assembly held in Geneva (Switzerland) on 25 June 2025, approved new recognition awards to honour Touradj Ebrahimi, Hyun Kahng, **Robert Palmer** and Michael Saboff for their contributions and services to Ecma. [06:50:56.0685] https://ecma-international.org/ecma-fellow-awards-and-ecma-recognition-awards/#ecma-recognition-award [06:52:12.0465] Please see below the endorsement and nomination citation: --------------------- Rob Palmer for contributions to TC39 Rob Palmer has been an integral part of the TC39 chair group since 2020, making an outstanding and lasting impact. In plenary sessions, he has kept the agenda running seamlessly, demonstrating exceptional patience and finding balanced solutions amidst heated debates and time constraints—truly setting a standard for leadership. His unwavering support for meeting hosts has significantly eased the pressures of a demanding role, ensuring smooth and efficient proceedings. Beyond the committee, Rob has been a welcoming and approachable representative, actively engaging with the broader community through social media, fostering transparency and inclusivity. Rob’s contributions have undeniably strengthened TC39, leaving a positive and lasting mark on the committee. --------------------- [06:52:58.0205] Congratulations from my side and thank you for your contributions. [06:54:18.0706] Well, congratulations to Rob! [10:38:07.0423] Thank you all! [10:39:04.0959] And congrats to Michael Saboff who is doubly worth the recognition given his contributions to both TC39 and Ecma where he served as ExeCom Chair. [13:25:01.0097] Well deserved, both of you [13:25:30.0524] Can someone point me to the conversation about normatively referencing WebIDL? I'm doing… research. [13:31:16.0031] I think it's most in emails and calls, I'll forward them to you tomorrow [13:31:41.0812] Oh nevermind I was thinking of infra, not webidl [13:43:29.0450] which conversation? the one from plenary? [13:44:01.0903] I don't know, I saw it referenced at some point in Matrix. If there was one from the last plenary I can go read the notes! [13:44:21.0428] yeah you can see the notes for that [13:44:27.0238] also there's still conversation happening in https://github.com/tc39/proposal-idl/issues [14:55:45.0496] do any of the TC39 standards from any TG reference anything published by w3c? (normatively or informatively)(or even in the biblio) 2025-07-04 [19:06:34.0220] https://github.com/tc39/ecma426/blob/main/spec.emu#L157 [19:07:46.0318] Source Map spec references W3C wasm 2025-07-06 [14:06:41.0936] I hadn't realized that when node started doing automatic typescript type stripping they also exposed that functionality as an API [14:06:56.0378] that makes it pretty trivial to strip types when serving files [14:07:32.0998] which... I think eats most of the motivation for https://github.com/tc39/proposal-type-annotations ? at least the motivations I was aware of [14:07:59.0587] demo https://github.com/bakkot/buildless-ts-webapp 2025-07-07 [09:28:16.0359] That is a very cool project, bakkot: It shows how many pieces of the puzzle are coming to allow TS and ESM to be used in a simple way. [09:30:02.0612] it'd be cool to also describe/provide a variant that avoids the speed overhead that takes one of these apps and pre-transpiles it so that it still works [09:30:21.0592] On the motivations for type annotations, the Node work demonstrates that runtimes can play a large part in the story of reducing developer friction. Deno/Bun also showed that earlier on. [09:31:19.0101] There are still some remaining gaps, such a browser debugging. Using the console/REPL with TS still isn't as frictionless as using JS. [09:32:30.0865] The other motivation was language coordination. Something Mark raised strongly in Feb 2025 during the post plenary session on type annotations. Monutes are available. [09:32:44.0225] * The other motivation was language coordination. Something Mark raised strongly in Feb 2025 during the post plenary session on type annotations. Minutes are available. [09:33:03.0494] Fair point about language coordination, yeah [09:33:41.0899] myself I've always kind of been on the other side of that, because I like it when TS adds good syntax (`satisfies` etc) instead of trying to fit it into a pre-reserved syntax space [09:34:53.0354] (Though I see the TS introduction of the new "erasableSyntaxOnly" tsconfig flag + TC39 advancement of the Stage 1 enum proposal as highly positive indications of all sides leaning in to attempts to coordinate already.) [09:37:05.0424] I actually have found that debugging ts-blank-space strip'd types is totally frictionless; do you just mean the bit where you can't copy-paste TS code into the repl? I think that would be adequately solved by having Chrome devtools ship swc [09:48:29.0039] Yes, I mean copy-pasting into the REPL. And I agree that if we coordinate across the ecosystem to intercept all the places that JS is debugged so they implement these same type-stripping semantics, then from a user's perspective using TS should be pretty much as frictionless as JS. [09:49:48.0459] (I.e. Chrome is not the only debugger) 2025-07-08 [06:55:29.0062] I wonder if we have a name for documents containing instructions for multiple parties in an ecosystem to coordinate on some shared agreed upon behavior... [10:20:04.0318] I definitely do not want typescript to have to go through a standards body to introduce new syntax, that is one of my main goals here 2025-07-11 [10:00:53.0925] can someone from google please help me out with a delegate email address? please DM if so [10:01:35.0347] * can someone from Google or Ecma please help me out with a Google delegate's email address? please DM if so