| 15:59 | <Alex Rickabaugh> | Is there a specific channel/venue for discussing the pending signals proposal? Or is this the place? :) |
| 16:04 | <littledan> | For now we just have the discord and the proposal repo. We discussed signals a bunch in #tc39-delegates:matrix.org during the meeting and a bit afterwards. |
| 16:05 | <littledan> | Would folks be interested in having a Matrix-side channel for Signals? Would that make it easier for people here, if you want to keep discussing it? (Please emoji-react if you're interested in joining such a channel) |
| 16:53 | <Chris de Almeida> | Would folks be interested in having a Matrix-side channel for Signals? Would that make it easier for people here, if you want to keep discussing it? (Please emoji-react if you're interested in joining such a channel) |
| 16:56 | <ryzokuken> | Would folks be interested in having a Matrix-side channel for Signals? Would that make it easier for people here, if you want to keep discussing it? (Please emoji-react if you're interested in joining such a channel) |
| 17:09 | <trueadm> | For context, we did originally try Matrix last year when we were getting an idea on who was interested in the idea of this (this was very early on). There were a number of folks who found Matrix (or maybe Elements) buggy at the time and hard to follow with threads, so engagement went down until we moved to Discord. I feel that revisiting this might be worthwhile though. |
| 17:13 | <littledan> | Yeah we just weren’t able to engage the stakeholders on Matrix. I tried. We’ll make a Signals chat here, but I won’t close the other ones. |
| 17:14 | <littledan> | I got lots of people to make Matrix accounts but they just didn’t make themselves as accessible. |
| 17:15 | <littledan> | We can call this Matrix one the “main” one though :) |
| 17:16 | <shu> | i yearn for irc |
| 17:16 | <ryzokuken> | trueadm littledan thanks for the context, and sorry to hear that y'all ran into some problems with matrix |
| 17:17 | <ryzokuken> | some of the newer fixes in element should address the biggest pain points though and we're planning to do a refresh of our matrix guide |
| 17:19 | <trueadm> | Yeah there are definitely some nice fixes. Last time I used Elements the notifications were broken, it would say there was always something unread, and nothing I could do would remove it. It's still not perfect, but definitely better. |
| 17:20 | <ryzokuken> | yeah that was an annoying threads bug |
| 17:20 | <ryzokuken> | that's been fixed with the threads notification center for instance |
| 17:22 | <ryzokuken> | anyhow I think it's appropriate now that the proposal is stage 1 and there would be a lot more involvement from various folks from committee that we consider making the "main" discussion chat regarding technical details into a matrix room |
| 17:22 | <Michael Ficarra> | I switched to https://cinny.in/ back when someone recommended it, and it's... fine |
| 17:23 | <Michael Ficarra> | yes there is no way I'm going to get on Discord |
| 17:23 | <ryzokuken> | I switched to https://cinny.in/ back when someone recommended it, and it's... fine |
| 17:23 | <ryzokuken> | as I mentioned we're also going to formalize the rules and expectations for proposal chatrooms on matrix |
| 17:23 | <Bradford Smith> | How is discord less inclusive than Matrix? I'm honestly curious here, not saying you're wrong, just asking what you mean. |
| 17:25 | <Bradford Smith> | I seem to be out of the loop regarding Discord. What's the problem with it? |
| 17:27 | <ryzokuken> | yes there is no way I'm going to get on Discord |
| 17:28 | <Bradford Smith> | Wow. I'm on a bunch of different discord servers, and I don't see anything like that. |
| 17:29 | <kriskowal> | I got on it actually but now everyone on the signals server has to put up with finding out what music I'm listening to or what crappy MMO I'm playing lately |
| 17:29 | <ryzokuken> | That can be disabled, but not per-channel, oddly. Which is fun, because Agoric interfaces with their developer community in Discord of all places. |
| 17:29 | <kriskowal> | as is right and just |
| 17:30 | <ryzokuken> | (I sent a few messages on the signals server recently and that was basically it) |
| 17:30 | <ryzokuken> | Wow. I'm on a bunch of different discord servers, and I don't see anything like that. |
| 17:30 | <ryzokuken> | maybe they just haven't shared that info on their profile |
| 17:30 | <ryzokuken> | which again, is perfectly fine |
| 17:30 | <Bradford Smith> | For me Matrix is the oddball. I only use it because of TC39. |
| 17:31 | <Bradford Smith> | and don't generally see anything here unless there's a meeting going on |
| 17:31 | <Bradford Smith> | (because I'm not looking) |
| 17:31 | <trueadm> | Discord has a really good iOS app IMO. That's what I really appreciate about it. |
| 17:32 | <ryzokuken> | in general the apps especially the mobile apps are great |
| 17:32 | <Bradford Smith> | you don't see what others are listening to/playing? |
| 17:32 | <shu> | why do people want to see what music other people are listening to? |
| 17:33 | <ryzokuken> | why do people want to see what music other people are listening to? |
| 17:34 | <shu> | i guess i am just antisocial |
| 17:35 | <ryzokuken> | COVID was a weird time I guess |
| 17:36 | <ryzokuken> | so a lot of social activity just moved to discord for many groups |
| 17:38 | <littledan> | yeah I did warn everybody that we were going to have to move partly to Matrix for interaction with TC39 |
| 17:39 | <littledan> | this is sort of like developing polyfills in proposal repos vs outside: too much friction inhibits development and coordination |
| 17:39 | <kriskowal> | Counter-point: AOL instant messenger had a feature for broadcasting your Winamp status. Now I just set my status to “Listening to Gustav Mahler” for mostly the same effect. |
| 17:39 | <littledan> | (I tried to encourage the signals polyfill to be in a separate repo at first, too) |
| 17:40 | <littledan> | Could someone with permission create a new TC39 Signals room? |
| 17:41 | <ryzokuken> | someone with a matrix.org address should do it rather than me, Chris de Almeida would you? |
| 17:42 | <Chris de Almeida> | #tc39-signals:matrix.org |
| 17:42 | <ryzokuken> | Counter-point: AOL instant messenger had a feature for broadcasting your Winamp status. Now I just set my status to “Listening to Gustav Mahler” for mostly the same effect. |
| 17:44 | <shu> | AIM status messages were the most passive aggressive things, they were great |
| 17:45 | <ryzokuken> | this is sort of like developing polyfills in proposal repos vs outside: too much friction inhibits development and coordination |
| 17:45 | <Michael Ficarra> | @littledan you're going to have to get @bakkot to set up the logbot on that channel as well |
| 17:46 | <Michael Ficarra> | as is our obligation |
| 17:46 | <littledan> | yeah, sorry if I sounded like too anti-discord, unfortunately there's no silver bullet and either platform would be more preferable to some folks over the others. I just feel that matrix is more appropriate due to colocation, policy and formality. |
| 17:47 | <littledan> | @littledan you're going to have to get @bakkot to set up the logbot on that channel as well |
| 17:49 | <Chris de Almeida> | not sure what ryzokuken had in mind but 1. it requires tc39 participants to use a new thing in order to participate, 2. not open source and some functionality is paywalled |
| 17:53 | <Chris de Almeida> | it will happen automatically |
| 18:01 | <bakkot> | does indeed happen automatically for world-readable channels in the space, though the logbot has a bug where it gets stuck sometimes and I have to manually kill it and I haven't tracked down why |
| 18:02 | <littledan> | we just need both in order to reach the relevant people. It's just a fact about the world that some people will join one chat system, some people will join the other, and some will be willing to join both |
| 18:21 | <kriskowal> | sounds like it’s software. have you tried rubbing some AI on it? |
| 18:22 | <littledan> | Logs seem to be up and running, probably thanks to AI https://matrixlogs.bakkot.com/TC39_Signals/2024-04-12 |
| 18:23 | <littledan> | doesn't log shared pictures but I don't think those have IP which is relevant to the final spec |