WHATWG on 2021-07-14

03:25	<bakkot>	are there any nested namespace objects in HTML? like Math or JSON, but hanging off another property
03:26	<bakkot>	I can't think of any except maybe `crypto.subtle`
03:26	<bakkot>	(tc39 is bikeshedding `Temporal.now`)
05:57	<Andreu Botella (he/they)>	are there any nested namespace objects in HTML? like Math or JSON, but hanging off another property `console`?
05:58	<shu>	oh man is `console` a namespace object?
06:03	Andreu Botella (he/they)	was checking the JS spec to make sure "namespace object" isn't a specific concept that they'd missed
06:03	<shu>	it is not! that's something we were debating, and we couldn't come to an exact definition
06:05	<sideshowbarker>	”namespace object“ is a WebIDL thing, not an ES thing, right?
06:09	<Andreu Botella (he/they)>	oh, nested namespace objects
06:09	Andreu Botella (he/they)	is still half asleep
07:14	<yug34>	I think that depends on your paper/journal's style guide for citations. Probably cite them the way you would cite any webpage. It is APA 7th ed., is there any author? Or should I just have: HTML Living Standard, (2021, July 14). WHATWG. https://html.spec.whatwg.org/
07:16	<yug34>	I think that depends on your paper/journal's style guide for citations. Probably cite them the way you would cite any webpage. It is APA 7th ed.! is there any author? Or should I just have: HTML Standard, (2021, July 14). WHATWG. https://html.spec.whatwg.org/
14:40	<Domenic>	oh man is `console` a namespace object? It is, but it is not nested. It is lowercase for legacy reasons. https://console.spec.whatwg.org/#:~:text=For%20historical%20reasons%2C%20console%20is%20lowercased.
14:43	<Domenic>	I can't think of any except maybe `crypto.subtle` crypto and crypto.subtle were designed before Web IDL supported namespaces; otherwise they would probably be a good candidate. In general the web has a lot of things which should probably be namespaces but are instead singleton instances (e.g. navigator is another one). You can tell the difference since crypto.constructor exists and crypto.subtle.constructor exists. These days that pattern is lightly discouraged; see https://w3ctag.github.io/design-principles/#:~:text=Several%20non-constructible%20classes%2C%20like%20Navigator%2C%20History%2C%20or%20Crypto%2C%20are%20non-constructible%20because
14:45	<Domenic>	It is APA 7th ed.! is there any author? Or should I just have: HTML Standard, (2021, July 14). WHATWG. https://html.spec.whatwg.org/ You could cite the editors, which are listed in https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/acknowledgements.html#:~:text=For%20about%20ten%20years%20starting%20in%202003%2C%20this%20standard%20was%20almost%20entirely%20written%20by . But the text was authored by hundreds of people, who you can see in the large list above, so I'm not sure what your style guide would recommend for such cases.
15:51	<foolip>	Have y'all seen https://dontcallmedom.github.io/mdn-issue-by-spec/ and in particular https://dontcallmedom.github.io/mdn-issue-by-spec/whatwg.html?
15:52	<foolip>	Right?
15:52	<Ms2ger>	[html] Issue with input validation
15:52	<foolip>	Too bad it's on static hosting or one could have a bit of fun