| 03:07 | <sideshowbarker> | incidentally, if the html5lib Python parser has 13,000 lines of code, the fact the vnu Java parser only has 28,000 line seems to suggests the vnu Java code is written pretty economically |
| 03:10 | <sideshowbarker> | it seems like Java code is almost always going to take significantly more than twice as many lines than most other common languages |
| 03:26 | <sideshowbarker> | https://www.python.org/doc/essays/comparisons/
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| 06:22 | <sideshowbarker> | https://portswigger.net/research/http2 |
| 07:12 | <sideshowbarker> | not quite sure what to do about https://github.com/mdn/content/issues/7667 — help welcome (even just issue comments) |
| 17:28 | <Domenic> | That issue seems based on some pretty bad confusions on how software works... like, how would the data belong to the "site"? Some sort of behind-the-scenes magic server-side syncing? |
| 17:33 | <Domenic> | I dunno though, maybe I'm just too deep into the ecosystem; maybe people coming to web dev from other ecosystems have different expectations. |
| 17:33 | <sideshowbarker> | yeah, I don’t know where to even begin on that one |
| 17:34 | <Domenic> | Like I feel like if you really wanted to address this in good faith you'd need a whole article or so on how browsers work (being self-contained, relying on the site for any long-term storage, etc.) which would make this clear? |
| 17:35 | <sideshowbarker> | I am not aware of other systems where if you have two arbitrary clients that are using some client-side persistent local storage, the state of the local storage from one arbitrary client gets automatically reflected to the local state for every other arbitrary client you might use |
| 17:36 | <sideshowbarker> | Like I feel like if you really wanted to address this in good faith you'd need a whole article or so on how browsers work (being self-contained, relying on the site for any long-term storage, etc.) which would make this clear? |
| 17:36 | <Domenic> | Yeah like this person must not be thinking of browsers in that sense of the word "client", or maybe is new enough to development that they don't have the client-server dichotomy in their mental model |
| 17:37 | <Domenic> | I dunno it just seems like a really hard part of writing docs; what is the baseline level of understanding you require before the docs make sense. Given MDN's seeming mission to be everything (e.g. it has tutorials not just reference docs), that seems hard. |
| 17:39 | <sideshowbarker> | yeah this issue is not a completely isolated case — it’s just a matter of degree |
| 17:39 | <sideshowbarker> | same with the HTML issue tracker, actually |
| 17:40 | <sideshowbarker> | we have people show up and raise issues that the immediate reaction to is going to be, You really should probably read up a lot more about how all this works |
| 17:41 | <sideshowbarker> | but for MDN issues, I try to first take a breath and then really consider in good faith if there’s any possible useful refinement to the docs that could be salvaged out of the issue |
| 17:42 | <sideshowbarker> | sometimes there is |
| 17:42 | <sideshowbarker> | but anyway, this particular issue does make me realize that there’s a common misunderstanding that a lot of people have |
| 17:43 | <sideshowbarker> | …which is, they don’t realize that the code for a web application executes on their machines locally, inside the browser |
| 17:44 | <sideshowbarker> | I guess they imagine it somehow running out in the “cloud” somewhere, at some abstract “origin” |
| 17:55 | <sideshowbarker> | hmm, I guess that’s a bit of what it is in this case — the OP understands what a unique origin is, and they imagine that if code running at a particular origin creates some persistent thing, then that persistent thing should persist at that origin regardless of which browser you use to access it |
| 17:58 | <sideshowbarker> | and I suppose then that a fundamental they’re overlooking is that the persistent things are necessarily persisted per-user — otherwise, every user who ran some code at that origin would clobber the persisted stuff |
| 17:59 | <sideshowbarker> | and two different browsers is two different users — regardless of whether those browsers happen to be running on the same person’s machine |
| 17:59 | <sideshowbarker> | maybe I can try to write up a comment along those lines |
| 18:37 | <sideshowbarker> | commented: https://github.com/mdn/content/issues/7667#issuecomment-894691081 |