WHATWG on 2021-08-26

02:31	<sujaldev>	i was just reminded of when i interviewed at opera, i was living in NYC at the time and was just hit riding my bike under the BQE. but they bolted my arm together with some stainless steel so i was in the clear to fly to Oslo. at some point after interview 2 i was feeling some pain so i took some pain meds (hydrocodone?). later on andreas bovens told me that HR commented that my answers were very reserved and deliberate 🤣 but did you get the job afterwards?
04:17	<SDM WBE>	bkjasbc
04:18	<SDM WBE>	oh yeah... theres winners in here?
04:21	<sideshowbarker>	PSA: Many MDN pages are 404 right now. Known issue being tracked in https://github.com/mdn/content/issues/8314. Cause yet unknown — and I think it’s unlikely to be fixed until several hours from now, when Europe comes online and somebody from the dev team can start troubleshooting it.
04:23	<SDM WBE>	hi
05:11	<mithedestroyer>	njknk
05:11	<mithedestroyer>	mom
05:11	<mithedestroyer>	njnj\
07:25	<freddy>	miketayl_r: to be fair, I assume when you interviewed at Opera was long before the tech job hype-cycle and resume or education mattered much less (especially if you had already proven to do good work elsewhere (open source, browsers, web, ..).
09:11	<Sam Sneddon [:gsnedders]>	miketayl_r: to be fair, I assume when you interviewed at Opera was long before the tech job hype-cycle and resume or education mattered much less (especially if you had already proven to do good work elsewhere (open source, browsers, web, ..). I mean it was post dot-com boom, which I'm sure one could argue was the first tech job hype-cycle 🙂 but also yes, Opera was always comparatively willing to hire people with less in the way of paper qualifications if there was proof of similar work being done elsewhere
09:33	<freddy>	True :) I admit my "hype cycle" phrasing was super ambiguous. I feel like 10 years ago, if someone didn't know what to study they picked business economics or law and now everyone seems to go into tech..
11:17	<sideshowbarker>	https://github.com/mdn/content/issues/8312 is a good “help wanted” issue for anybody looking to contribute to MDN who has some familiarity with service workers `cache.keys()` behavior
11:19	<sideshowbarker>	basically amounts to: Confirm what’s asserted in the issue description there is true. Change a few examples to match what’s suggested in the issue description.
12:05	<zcorpan>	exactly but in the html specification many of the element's style is defined as css, that's why I think css might be required. CSS isn't required to implement HTML, technically. Though rendering is defined in terms of CSS, non-CSS user agents are allowed. Even the "Visual user agents that support the suggested default rendering" conformance class can be non-CSS. https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/infrastructure.html#conformance-classes https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/rendering.html#introduction-16
12:05	<zcorpan>	I just realized "In general, user agents are expected to support CSS" puts a requirement for that conformance class
16:54	<sujaldev>	Even if I don't build a css parser and tokenizer (which I have already done with high amounts of bugs), don't I need the visual formatting model defined in the css specifications?
18:51	<zcorpan>	sujaldev: not to conform to the HTML standard. You can implement a different visual formatting model. I don't know much about alternatives, other than the non-CSS visual UAs I'm aware of are Terminal browsers like Lynx. That said, if you want to build something that resembles a modern browser, or get something that is compatible with general web content, then yes you will need to support CSS