| 08:32 | <sideshowbarker> | https://twitter.com/Hixie/status/1620694008405331968 |
| 08:32 | <sideshowbarker> | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1peUSMsvFGvqD5yKh3GprskLC3KVdAlLGOsK6gFoEOD0/edit?resourcekey=0-bPajpoo9IBZpG__-uCBE6w# |
| 08:46 | <sideshowbarker> | https://twitter.com/Hixie/status/1620704532748701697 |
| 08:51 | <sideshowbarker> | maybe we could call it “The Second System”… |
| 08:52 | <sideshowbarker> | or if we’re really optimizing for irony, “Web4” |
| 08:53 | <sideshowbarker> | or else just skip to “Web5” (and also create some entertaining narrative for why we skipped past “Web4”) |
| 08:56 | <sideshowbarker> | anyway, this rightly seems like something we should have seriously started working on already — and I’ve not heard any sound objections to it other than some assertions that the performance benefits wouldn’t be significant enough to merit the spec work and implementation work required |
| 08:57 | <sideshowbarker> | but as Hixie says in one of his tweets, “The goal is simplicity and developer ergonomics, more than performance” |
| 11:53 | <sideshowbarker> | WABI |
| 13:57 | <Domenic> | "applications could ship with their own implementations of high-level concepts like layout, widgets, and gestures" seems like an anti-goal to me. |
| 13:58 | <Domenic> | And not one any other successful platform has embraced |
| 14:39 | <sideshowbarker> | I think Flutter at least has already essentially embraced it, for their Web output — at least as an option. See https://docs.flutter.dev/development/platform-integration/web/renderers — the CanvasKit renderer: https://skia.org/docs/user/modules/canvaskit/, which amounts to every app shipping with its own embedded layout engine (Skia) |
| 15:44 | <bkardell> | I feel like I have a lot of thoughts myself, but also - I kind of don't get at all how aria fits in that particular mix really |
| 16:12 | <bkardell> | well, I guess "at all" is an overstatement really |
| 16:14 | <bkardell> | but like - it feels like a lot of the industry was trying to go in a not totally dissimilar direction around 2004 before whatwg... like, lots of VMs with core and then a thing atop trying to add an application version of a markup maybe - flex/flash, java/jfx, silverlight/xaml ... no? |
| 19:12 | <timothygu> | Has anyone seen https://github.com/ada-url/ada? |
| 20:32 | <Ian Hickson> | And not one any other successful platform has embraced |
| 20:33 | <Ian Hickson> | and Android now, with Jetpack Compose |
| 20:33 | <Ian Hickson> | also, most gaming platforms |
| 20:34 | <Ian Hickson> | really the web is the only platform where the bootstrap mode is so high-level that you're literally a document |
| 20:35 | <Ian Hickson> | even android, which bootstraps you into a java environment via the zygote doesn't start that high |
| 21:15 | <bkardell> | Ian Hickson: do you not imagine any kind of document there? One geared toward apps? like that sort of thing almost existed (did in a way in flex, xaml, xul, jfx) and they do kind of exist now - like QML is a thing, right? |
| 21:39 | <Ian Hickson> | not sure i understand the question |
| 22:04 | <bkardell> | not sure i understand the question |
| 22:22 | <bkardell> | so in your idea, things still have a URL I guess and the thing at the end of the URL is just.... straight to WASM (but like, an archive? some descriptor?), and that WASM you're suggesting would have some kind of (new) core libraries available to it based on WebGPU, WebHID and ARIA (the taxonomies, at least)... I guess it would probably need some additional primitives there or I'm not sure how you apply them together? Am I understanding that at least generally or just way off what you are describing? |
| 22:23 | <bkardell> | (also, happy to take this to a different room if this is just silly for the main whatwg channel but you're still willing to answer potentially dumb questions) |