| 07:22 | <zcorpan> | So there's no need for |
| 07:25 | <zcorpan> | zcorpan: Trying to wrap my head around concrete object size ignoring natural dimensions. Is this correct? https://gist.github.com/eeeps/3b6c4b90f7275526534d5928a978fbaa |
| 07:25 | <zcorpan> | (or less if the viewport is smaller) |
| 07:27 | <zcorpan> | Eric Portis (he/him): https://drafts.csswg.org/css-images/#specified-size |
| 07:29 | <zcorpan> | Eric Portis (he/him): example 2 seems correct |
| 07:39 | <annevk> | zcorpan: hmm yeah, tests? š |
| 08:00 | <zcorpan> | ...and in parallel to me adding that use counter, zcorpan or somebody else here who's set up to run HTTPArchive queries can run one for this |
| 08:01 | <zcorpan> | annevk: maybe interaction with 'display' isn't tested yet :) |
| 08:01 | <zcorpan> | annevk: oh you meant for html.css |
| 08:04 | <zcorpan> | Turns out <summary tabindex="-1"> is included |
| 08:04 | <zcorpan> | I made at least 2 mistakes in the regexp :) |
| 08:05 | <sideshowbarker> | Done, with these exceptions: <a> (sans href) is included, <img>, <audio>, <video> are excluded. It would be harder to get these right, and marginal returns. 105,235 sites out of 12,808,711 (~0.82%). The result was too large to export in full to google sheets, but the first 1327 results (ordered by rank) are here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o2X2ld_S0JjYdZs2vPKNwfrAIdceiVH2HLSmo4BLYTI/edit?usp=sharing |
| 08:06 | <zcorpan> | sideshowbarker: I expected less |
| 08:06 | <sideshowbarker> | Oh |
| 08:08 | <zcorpan> | summary is used on 0.9% of pages per https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1grkd2_1xSV3jvNK6ucRQ0OL1HmGTsScHuwA8GZuRLHU/edit#gid=2057119066&range=I80 |
| 08:09 | <zcorpan> | so then 91% of pages using summary also use interactive content |
| 08:09 | <sideshowbarker> | sideshowbarker: I expected less |
| 08:15 | <sideshowbarker> | so then 91% of pages using |
| 08:16 | <zcorpan> | so then 91% of pages using summary usage has increased since sep 2022 :) New query with the same dataset gives 226,719 sites using summary, so it's "only" 46% of sites using summary also using interactive content in summary |
| 08:30 | <sideshowbarker> | This was bogus, since |
| 08:32 | <sideshowbarker> | This week I will try to add a use counter to the checker, to see how well it aligns with that number. |
| 08:32 | <zcorpan> | sideshowbarker: also we might need to solve how to make nested interactive content work well so that the UX isn't broken for 0.82% of sites |
| 08:33 | <sideshowbarker> | Yup |
| 08:55 | <Domenic> | https://github.com/w3c/html-aam/issues/345#issuecomment-931495836 discusses that. I guess at least Facebook's accessibility specialist thinks it's too hard: " Whenever I try to imagine a way to solve all the problems associated with that, my brain feels like it falls into a bottomless hurt pit." |
| 08:56 | <Domenic> | I think it's sad when accessibility experts say that giving AT users experience parity with mouse/keyboard users is too hard, but, to be fair, I haven't tried to write AT software myself. |
| 14:00 | <annevk> | Mattias Buelens: any update on https://github.com/whatwg/streams/pull/1083? |
| 14:02 | <annevk> | Mattias Buelens: similar question for https://github.com/whatwg/streams/pull/1271. I guess they come down to https://github.com/whatwg/streams/pull/1264. Does what Youenn suggests there seem reasonable? |
| 16:31 | <Eric Portis (he/him)> | zcorpan: Why did you change the <img> to a <span class=img>, and why (or perhaps when) does an <img> have a computedStyle width of 0? https://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=11742 |
| 16:32 | <zcorpan> | Eric Portis (he/him): I changed it to remove weird behaviors of img |
| 16:33 | <Eric Portis (he/him)> | @zcorpan ok. Does sizes=auto have to contend with those weird behaviors? |
| 16:33 | <zcorpan> | Eric Portis (he/him): the size is 0 if it's inline or inline-block and no width or min-width, for example |
| 16:37 | <Eric Portis (he/him)> | I guess my question is, will the concrete size ignoring natural dimensions in this example be 60em, even though what's getting logged is 0px: https://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=11742 If so why? |
| 16:39 | <zcorpan> | Eric Portis (he/him): oh right it's 0px because img is a replaced element. So my span example is wrong |
| 16:40 | <Eric Portis (he/him)> | Ok! So both of the gist examples are correct, and this is testable by putting an empty img in a layout and looking at its dimensions. |
| 16:42 | <zcorpan> | Eric Portis (he/him): I think so, but might need to use alt="" so that the alt text doesn't affect sizing when testing since alt isn't shown while loading |
| 16:42 | <Eric Portis (he/him)> | zcorpan: makes sense. Thanks! |
| 17:02 | <zcorpan> | Eric Portis (he/him): to be sure fallback doesn't affect sizing, use a very-slow-loading image |
| 17:04 | <Eric Portis (he/him)> | zcorpan: what do you mean by āfallbackā? |
| 17:05 | <zcorpan> | Eric Portis (he/him): "showing alt" |
| 17:06 | <zcorpan> | even if the empty string, there can be a difference between inline box and replaced inline box |
| 17:09 | <Eric Portis (he/him)> | zcorpan: ok. I donāt see any differences in Safari/FF/Chrome but Iāll take your word for it that thatās not necessarily specād/guaranteed |
| 17:12 | <zcorpan> | Eric Portis (he/him): e.g. I think https://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visuren.html#position-props is different |
| 17:18 | <zcorpan> | Eric Portis (he/him): https://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/11743 |
| 17:19 | <zcorpan> | 3 different results in 3 browser engines, good times! |
| 17:22 | <zcorpan> | https://html.spec.whatwg.org/#images-3 - ah actually alt="" means it "repesents nothing" (if there's no image), and so it should act as a 0x0 replaced element |
| 23:30 | <Eric Portis (he/him)> | zcorpan: so an <img alt=""> should behave the same, for sizes="auto"-testing purposes, as an <img src="5-second-ttfb.jpeg" /> or whatever. Because the default object size of both a loading image and an "img element that represents nothing and the user agent does not expect this to change" are both 0x0. |
| 23:46 | <Eric Portis (he/him)> | zcorpan: although according to the loading image definition, images in this state "may trigger fallback rendering". Is there anything in the "concrete object size ignoring natural dimensions" spec that forbids fallback rendering dimensions from being used? |