| 07:51 | <annevk> | Is there a better client for Matrix than Element? I just discovered I missed updates to threads going back for years. And when you click on the Threads icon it doesn't even give you a way to view all unread threads. You have to keep scrolling back in time letting it load all the things, which I'm not going to do so I just marked it all as read and hope to keep better track of it going forward. |
| 07:58 | <sideshowbarker> | There are no better clients I'm aware of. IMHO at this point we'd be better off migrating to Discord. Whatever other problems Discord has, it at least seems to not have the serious UX deficiencies that Element has. |
| 08:00 | <Psychpsyo> | One UX deficiency that Discord has is having phantom unread message badges on a bunch of channels all the time cause some Bitcoin scammer came through and had to be banned. |
| 08:00 | <sideshowbarker> | When we started out with Matrix, it seemed to have some promise, and there was some hope that its ecosystem would improve. But it's been years now, and IMHO it's really not improved. So I feel like it's time to give up on it, and cut our losses. |
| 08:01 | <sideshowbarker> | Yeah it's not perfect. It's just better that Matrix at least |
| 08:02 | <annevk> | I guess if you're already using Discord that would be nice, but I'm not and I really don't want another thing. |
| 08:08 | <sideshowbarker> | Yeah that's the main problem —just trying to get everybody on the same thing. However many years ago, it seemed like betting on Matrix was a good bet. But it's really not gotten wider uptake outside the projects that are already using it — Mozilla and TC39 and us. I spent a lot of time trying to get set W3C to migrate over to it, but it ended up that nobody cared (they were happy enough with IRC), so that never went anywhere. |
| 08:10 | <sideshowbarker> | Maybe somebody can be convinced to spend a weekend using a coding agent to code up a decent Matrix client. |
| 08:20 | <Psychpsyo> | Some people in the CSSWG have recently created a Matrix channel and I think the plan is to bridge it with the IRC one. |
| 08:27 | <JaseW> | In TC39 when we migrated from IRC, one of our options was Discord, it was ruled out due to not being accessible from China. It was also unpopular with many members. You may have the same issue with W3C/WHATWG too. |
| 08:33 | <annevk> | Web Engines Hackfest and WPT are here too. And I personally don't think the situation is dire enough to migrate away. |
| 08:33 | <annevk> | Psychpsyo: ooh, can you link it? I keep having issues with the web-based IRC client whenever I'm in a CSS + WHATWG call. |
| 08:34 | <JaseW> | I can link to it I set it up.
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| 08:35 | <annevk> | Haha, of course that's the icon. |
| 08:36 | <JaseW> | I did try to use some “official” icon and I couldn’t find one, so just went with that lol |
| 08:37 | <Psychpsyo> | Isn't it the purple box that says CSS on it? (I'm not saying the channel icon should be changed, I like the current one) |
| 08:37 | <JaseW> | I agree with this completely. We shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good. No one thinks matrix is “great” but we’re in a much better place than before. I also can’t imagine everyone happily moving to discord without fragmenting the community. |
| 08:38 | <JaseW> | Good point |
| 08:38 | <annevk> | For a long time the CSS WG had a sheep on its home page, but it seems that has gone away with the rebranding. |
| 08:45 | <JaseW> | Apparently the last time W3C had channels on matrix they were subject to a lot of spam and abuse. I’d love to hear if this WHATWG has had anything like that or if there’s mitigations in place on this channel to reduce spam/bad actors etc. (Learnings we could apply to the CSS channel) |
| 08:50 | <annevk> | We get some spam, but we have enough active admin/moderators that it's usually quickly removed. Spam situation on GitHub seems worse. |
| 08:51 | <Psychpsyo> | If all the messages are automatically cross-posted to IRC, just deleting them on Matrix might not solve the problem. |
| 08:53 | <JaseW> | The plan is to bridge, but only the W3C systems team can do this, it’s out of our hands. Because they were bitten by the spam issue last time they may be reluctant to enable it again. |