| 02:18 | <zcorpan> | spam? http://blog.whatwg.org/proposing-features#comment-2393 |
| 02:34 | <zcorpan> | http://twitter.com/ddfreyne/statuses/37293072 |
| 02:36 | <Hixie> | is he your friend? |
| 02:36 | <Hixie> | we should get him to send us feedback |
| 02:36 | <Hixie> | so we can fix the problems he ran into |
| 02:36 | <zcorpan> | no, he just showed up in my google blog search feed |
| 02:38 | <zcorpan> | reading http://stoneship.org/journal/marked-up/ ... |
| 02:45 | zcorpan | added him on msn |
| 02:47 | <zcorpan> | nn |
| 05:35 | <Hixie> | ok i've officially run out of things to test on http://hixie.ch/tests/evil/acid/003/ |
| 05:36 | <Hixie> | and i have up to 87 more tests to write :-) |
| 05:37 | <Hixie> | testing DOM2 Core, DOM2 Events, DOM2 HTML, ECMAScript 3, HTTP |
| 05:38 | <Hixie> | and anything else you can think of testing via JS without it actually rendering |
| 07:53 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: are you at work? ping about dfn usage |
| 08:00 | <Hixie> | just got back from work, heh |
| 08:00 | <Hixie> | let me get my vpn card, hang on |
| 08:00 | <Hixie> | what was the question? |
| 08:06 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: what's the relative usage frequency of <dfn> compared to <i> (or perhaps <em>, too) |
| 08:08 | <Hixie> | on a per-page basis? |
| 08:08 | <Hixie> | as in, pages using dfn vs pages using i/em? |
| 08:08 | <hsivonen> | for example |
| 08:10 | <Hixie> | <i> is used on 178 times more pages than <dfn>, and <em> is used on 80 times more pages than <dfn> |
| 08:10 | <Hixie> | as of last september |
| 08:10 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: thanks. this is "several billion pages", right? |
| 08:11 | <Hixie> | <dfn> is used more than <del>, <ins>, <var>, <kbd>, <samp>, etc |
| 08:11 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 08:12 | <hsivonen> | thanks. <dfn> being more common than <var> and <kbd> is surprising to me |
| 08:12 | <hsivonen> | and <del> |
| 08:12 | <hsivonen> | lots of bloggers use <del> and <ins> these days |
| 08:12 | <Hixie> | <dfn> is used less than <zeroboard>, <st1:place>, <noembed>, <blink>, <bgsound>, <ilayer>, etc |
| 08:12 | <othermaciej> | <zeroboard>? |
| 08:12 | <hsivonen> | othermaciej: indeed |
| 08:12 | <Hixie> | don't ask me |
| 08:12 | <Hixie> | i just work here |
| 08:12 | <othermaciej> | <blink>?? |
| 08:12 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: thanks |
| 08:13 | virtuelv | wonders wtf <zeroboard> is |
| 08:13 | <othermaciej> | omg Sam Ruby posted on public-html |
| 08:13 | <othermaciej> | has IBM decided to join the Conspiracy of Light? |
| 08:14 | <virtuelv> | othermaciej: http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/2007/04/23/HTML-WG-me |
| 08:14 | <virtuelv> | "I’m the first to represent IBM, but there undoubtedly will be others." |
| 08:14 | <othermaciej> | nobody tells me these things |
| 11:43 | <Philip`> | <zeroboard> seems to come from e.g. http://www.nzeo.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=cgi_zskins2&no=19641 which has code like |
| 11:43 | <Philip`> | <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=99%> |
| 11:43 | <Philip`> | <tr> |
| 11:43 | <Philip`> | <td > |
| 11:43 | <Philip`> | <Zeroboard???</a> |
| 11:43 | <Philip`> | <Zeroboard????</a> |
| 11:43 | <Philip`> | .... |
| 11:44 | <Philip`> | (where the "?" are Korean) |
| 11:45 | <Philip`> | so it looks like a markup error rather than an actual tag |
| 11:45 | <Philip`> | (but it's on (apparently) Korea's most popular message board software, so it gets around a lot) |
| 12:08 | <hsivonen> | where should I look for mod_negotiation for dummies? |
| 12:09 | hsivonen | is puzzled by the difference between http://hsivonen.iki.fi/thesis/html5-conformance-checker and http://hsivonen.iki.fi/thesis/html5-conformance-checker.var in Opera |
| 12:09 | <hsivonen> | Apache docs say that .var should take precedence over automatic MultiViews |
| 12:22 | <virtuelv> | Hixie: I think Acid3 needs a cat picture |
| 12:22 | <zcorpan> | virtuelv: agreed |
| 12:23 | hsivonen | gives up on conneg for today |
| 12:28 | <hsivonen> | it appears that the html60 guy hasn't read HTML5 |
| 12:30 | <met_> | do you mean people in html-wg? |
| 12:34 | <Dashiva> | No, there's this russian with html60 as his email userpart. He keeps coming up with very dramatic declarative suggestions |
| 12:35 | <met_> | oh this |
| 12:36 | <Lachy> | oh wow! This has to be the longest subject line ever: "Now there is table-element with predetermined quantity of column.But sometimes we need to visualize three tables(for example, database tables) as one table:first table contains names of rows,second table contains names of columns (this table determine quantity of columns),third table contains data.New html-element: table-dim" |
| 12:58 | <Philip`> | No, the longest subject line ever is the one that says "Re: {all that}" |
| 13:19 | <krijnh> | Anybody in here know if it's possible to turn off the black outline when navigating to form elements in Opera? |
| 13:34 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: is there any chance you might be able to set up an archived mailing list to which webapps checkin messages get echoed? |
| 13:34 | <MikeSmith> | in my workflow at least (at work and in open-source projects), I'm used to scanning checkin message over e-mail |
| 13:35 | <MikeSmith> | maybe some other people are used to the same thing |
| 13:38 | met_ | is, it's in the /svn/hooks/post-commit sending mails with diff of commits |
| 14:08 | <Lachy> | MikeSmith, those checkin messages get posted to twitter |
| 14:09 | <MikeSmith> | Lachy - which is great, but I think it could also be useful for them to go to a mailing list |
| 14:10 | <Lachy> | you could hook into the twitter API with your own program that sends you an email. Perhaps someone has already written such a tool |
| 14:11 | <met_> | MikeSmith propably want also diffs |
| 14:12 | <met_> | which are included in svn mails |
| 14:12 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, would want to have the diffs |
| 14:14 | <zcorpan> | might be able to hook something to web-apps-tracker |
| 14:15 | <zcorpan> | s/able/possible/ |
| 14:16 | <met_> | /svn/hooks/post-commit has it ready |
| 14:16 | <MikeSmith> | right, what met_ said |
| 14:17 | <met_> | there is one line needed to add mail address of the receiver |
| 14:17 | <zcorpan> | ok |
| 14:17 | <MikeSmith> | yep |
| 14:18 | <met_> | like this /var/lib/svn/svn/hooks/commit-email.pl -h example.com -s '[SVN]' "$REPOS" "$REV" name⊙ec |
| 14:18 | <zcorpan> | but web-apps-tracker has a filter |
| 14:22 | <Lachy> | the easy way to get twitter updates by email would be to use http://www.rssfwd.com/ and subscribe to the twitter feed but that wouldn't give you the diffs |
| 14:23 | zcorpan | still thinks about making a feed for web-apps-tracker that is aware of the filter |
| 18:22 | <annevk> | http://html456.blogspot.com/ |
| 18:29 | <zcorpan_> | anyone know of a czech translator that works? |
| 18:31 | <annevk> | use a real person? |
| 18:31 | <annevk> | works for Swedish stuff I need translated :p |
| 18:32 | <zcorpan_> | anyone here know czech? :) |
| 18:33 | <hasather> | didn't we have a Czech person here? met_? Not here now though |
| 18:34 | <Philip`> | There's one that doesn't really work at http://www.tranexp.com:2000/Translate/result.shtml |
| 18:34 | <zcorpan_> | ddfreyne: welcome |
| 18:34 | <Philip`> | "WHATWG tender sleight propagujc altogether singly plus acquaintance thinking , that 5 2", etc |
| 18:34 | <hasather> | http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20070413#l-164 |
| 18:35 | <ddfreyne> | zcorpan_: hi |
| 18:36 | <zcorpan_> | Hixie: ddfreyne is the http://twitter.com/ddfreyne/statuses/37293072 guy :) |
| 18:36 | <Philip`> | (Those log links would work better if the page didn't rearrange itself to remove the join/part/quit messages after it's scrolled down to the right line...) |
| 18:36 | <ddfreyne> | Hixie: hi :) |
| 18:36 | <zcorpan_> | Philip`: (indeed) |
| 18:38 | <annevk> | krijnh, see the bit between ( and ) above from Philip` |
| 18:39 | <annevk> | krijnh, preferably, fix it, by resetting location.hash or something |
| 18:41 | <zcorpan_> | ddfreyne: so, do you have any feedback about why html5 wasn't so great after all? :) |
| 18:42 | <ddfreyne> | zcorpan_: I do… not written down though |
| 18:42 | <ddfreyne> | (yet) |
| 18:43 | <zcorpan_> | ok |
| 19:04 | <ddfreyne> | Interesting — google said "Did you mean: bioy _casares_" when I googled for HTML 5. |
| 19:12 | <annevk> | was there inside the Acid3 directory a list with tests? |
| 19:13 | <annevk> | well, a list with browser bugs to exploit? |
| 21:02 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: It would be nice to define how _anything_ is parsed first ;) Chris Wilson was very much against the idea of defining parsing |
| 21:03 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: that's true, but aren't we really bound by the charter to define how to? (Or rather, describing the language in such a way that it will imply how to parse it) |
| 21:03 | <jgraham> | (But I generally agree, although I would have thought that a HTML fragment would be parsed like the .innerHTML case) |
| 21:03 | <gsnedders> | Then I think we should state that. |
| 21:04 | <jgraham> | I entirely agree |
| 21:18 | <zcorpan_> | http://forums.whatwg.org/viewtopic.php?t=38#164 |
| 21:18 | <met_> | zcorpan_, http://html456.blogspot.com/ yes? 8-) |
| 21:18 | <zcorpan_> | met_: yeah, care to translate? :) |
| 21:19 | <met_> | yes I can, but it is not necessary i am author of html456 8-) |
| 21:19 | <met_> | if you want anything to know, ask |
| 21:19 | <zcorpan_> | ok :) |
| 21:21 | <Hixie> | zcorpan_: not exactly sure what he's asking in that forum post |
| 21:21 | <Hixie> | did someone want some sort of mail to go out on-commit or something? |
| 21:22 | <Hixie> | and how do i do that? :-) |
| 21:23 | <zcorpan_> | Hixie: not sure either, perhaps he wants guidelines for authors as to what to use |
| 21:23 | <Hixie> | there's a syntax section, maybe we should add informative text to that or something |
| 21:23 | <Hixie> | if you can get him to tell you in more detail what he wants, let me know |
| 21:23 | <met_> | svn commit mails it was in discuccesed today yes |
| 21:23 | <Hixie> | (or mail the list with his request) |
| 21:24 | <zcorpan_> | ok |
| 21:44 | <zcorpan_> | Hixie: do you have data about how many pages use non-color values for <body bgcolor>? (it seems browsers do funny things with them in the parser) |
| 21:45 | <Hixie> | not off-hand no |
| 21:45 | <zcorpan_> | ok |
| 21:46 | zcorpan_ | would write some testcases about that to find out exactly what happens but it would be nice to know if the web relies on it or not |
| 21:47 | <Hixie> | define non-colour |
| 21:48 | <Hixie> | if you mean whether pages depend on the handling of bogus colours, like bgcolor="2138a", then yes, they do |
| 21:50 | <zcorpan_> | ok |
| 22:03 | <zcorpan_> | hm. < in unquoted attribute values. have i bugged about that before? the parsing section says < in an unquoted attribute value terminates the tag but all browsers i've tested just append it to the attribute value |
| 22:07 | <zcorpan_> | data:text/html,%3C!doctype%20html%3E%3Cp%20class%3Dfoo%3Ci%3EThis%20text%20should%20not%20be%20italic. |
| 22:08 | <zcorpan_> | (or well, per spec currently it should be italic) |
| 22:09 | <Hixie> | feel free to send mail about that again |
| 22:09 | <Hixie> | have you checked what browsers do with end tags and <? |
| 22:10 | <zcorpan_> | you mean </p class=foo<i> ? |
| 22:11 | <zcorpan_> | or <p class=foo</i> ? |
| 22:13 | <zcorpan_> | in both cases (and with <p class=foo<?>) it's part of the attribute value |
| 22:15 | <Hixie> | or </p< or <p< for that matter |
| 22:18 | <zcorpan_> | those are dealt with correctly in the spec afaict, it's just < in unquoted attribute values |
| 22:18 | <Hixie> | k |
| 22:33 | <met_> | strange on http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=40318&public=1 is only D. Connolly marked as chair, not Ch. Wilson |
| 23:10 | <Hixie> | www-html: |
| 23:10 | <Hixie> | I /expect/ it to be shaped by my participation, alongside others, in |
| 23:10 | <Hixie> | the /standardization organization/ tasked with creating it the |
| 23:10 | <Hixie> | specification. |
| 23:11 | Hixie | wonders if Tina is aware that she is not participating in the right group |
| 23:12 | <othermaciej> | I wonder if Tina knows that she is using /too much/ punctuation to indicate *emphasis* |
| 23:17 | <Dashiva> | othermaciej: It's probably proprietary markup to indicate semantically different kinds of emphasis |
| 23:57 | <Dashiva> | acid3 got brutal overnight... |