| 00:45 | Philip` | wishes Gmail didn't destroy his careful formatting by using a variable-width font |
| 00:55 | colione | thinks the gmail devil is laughing |
| 14:59 | <hendry> | i don't quite understand the difference beween <object> and <embed> |
| 15:01 | <hendry> | perhaps its a legacy thing |
| 15:01 | <hendry> | though i've seen <embed> as a child of <object> |
| 15:05 | <gsnedders> | hendry: <object> has fallback content, <embed> does not. that's the main difference |
| 15:30 | <hendry> | gsnedders: thanks |
| 15:38 | <hsivonen> | hendry: seen this? http://www.faculty.idc.ac.il/arik/IMRet-All.mov |
| 15:38 | <hsivonen> | (content adaptation) |
| 15:38 | <jgraham> | (browser crash) |
| 15:39 | <jgraham> | It seems to be working this time :) |
| 15:42 | <hendry> | hsivonen: woo, thanks for the link |
| 15:52 | <hendry> | hsivonen: that's amazing. though I guess it's going to require a 'bit of work', hence server side. Also that stuff with faces.... |
| 15:57 | <hendry> | hsivonen: i remember you doing some jp2 tests. any future thoughts? I guess we will be playing around with jpg/png for sometime to come... |
| 15:59 | <hsivonen> | hendry: PNG has much better characteristics when it comes to downloading less data in order to render a smaller image |
| 15:59 | <hsivonen> | (assuming Adam interlacing) |
| 16:02 | <hsivonen> | hendry: the problem is that the current crop of browsers downloads full PNGs, and one would want the current browsers to load quarter data and new browsers versions for HD desktop displays to load full images |
| 16:02 | <hendry> | that would make sense |
| 16:02 | <hendry> | hsivonen: do you have an opinion on Opera's img { display: none;} ? |
| 16:03 | <hsivonen> | hendry: I don't. |
| 16:03 | <hsivonen> | hendry: is it that Opera doesn't load the HTTP resource but other browsers do? |
| 16:03 | <hendry> | hsivonen: yeah |
| 16:03 | <hsivonen> | seems reasonable |
| 16:04 | <hsivonen> | the canonical way to preload images from a script is new Image |
| 16:04 | <hendry> | in html5 it's speced that img must download |
| 16:05 | <hsivonen> | hendry: I don't understand the problem space well enough to have an educated opinion right now |
| 16:06 | <hendry> | hsivonen: how do you come across this 'Adam interlacing' stuff? do you have tests? |
| 16:06 | <hsivonen> | hendry: in the PNG spec :-) |
| 16:07 | <hsivonen> | hendry: http://www.schaik.com/pngsuite/pngsuite_int_png.html |
| 16:08 | <hendry> | is there some reason why "the current crop of browsers" don't implement interlaced aware downloads? |
| 16:09 | <hendry> | because I am always thinking that if images were somehow well dealt with for mobile env., we'd see a massive break through |
| 16:10 | <hsivonen> | hendry: I'm not sure. but I'd be surprised if current browsers stopped PNG downloads after a quarter of data when the display size to device pixels only needs a quarter of the samples |
| 16:10 | <hsivonen> | hendry: I haven't actually tested |
| 16:11 | <hsivonen> | hendry: I'd be happy to have guessed wrong :-) |
| 16:11 | <hsivonen> | gotta go |
| 16:14 | <hendry> | hsivonen: cheers |
| 16:37 | <Philip`> | http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/dom-viewer/?%3C%21DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0D%0A%3Ch1%20id%3D%22logo%22%3E%3Cimg%20alt%3D%22WordPress%22%20src%3D%22wp-admin/images/wordpress-logo.png/%3E%3C/h1%3E%0D%0A%3Cp%3E%0D%0A%3Ch1%3EError%20establishing%20a%20database%20connection%3C/h1%3E |
| 16:38 | <Philip`> | http://james.html5.org/cgi-bin/parsetree/parsetree.py?source=%3C%21DOCTYPE+html%3E%0D%0A%3Ch1+id%3D%22logo%22%3E%3Cimg+alt%3D%22WordPress%22+src%3D%22wp-admin%2Fimages%2Fwordpress-logo.png%2F%3E%3C%2Fh1%3E%0D%0A%3Cp%3E%0D%0A%3Ch1%3EError+establishing+a+database+connection%3C%2Fh1%3E |
| 16:38 | <Philip`> | Is that a bug in HTML5, since it loses information that IE/Firefox/Opera all preserve? |
| 16:38 | <Philip`> | (on real-world content, too) |
| 16:45 | <Philip`> | Hmm, Safari does about the same as HTML5 (except it doesn't even create the img element) |
| 16:50 | <Philip`> | http://hasteworld.co.uk/ has exactly the same error message too - the whole page is blank in Safari (and HTML5) |
| 19:45 | <Hixie> | Lachy: someone sent me mail saying a blog post was pending |
| 20:57 | <Philip`> | Hixie: I made some changes to the multipage-generator so it splits into more sensible-sized sections and tries to redirect users when things have moved - would it be possible/convenient some time to set that up on whatwg.org? |
| 20:57 | <Hixie> | iirc i had to make a bunch of changes to get it to work in my current setup |
| 20:57 | <Hixie> | i'll have to look into it |
| 20:57 | <Hixie> | ping me during the week some time? |
| 20:58 | <Philip`> | Okay, sure |
| 20:58 | <Hixie> | the current setup on whatwg.org is complicated -- the files get sent off to a server in the uk for splitting, and that's where your script actually runs |
| 20:58 | <Hixie> | then it gets sent back to whatwg.org as a tarball and extracted |
| 21:15 | <Hixie> | http://www.whatwg.org/issues/ |
| 21:28 | <Philip`> | Hixie: When registering, I got the "Your code is: ..." email twice |
| 21:29 | <Philip`> | (I suppose I might have accidentally double-clicked, though) |
| 21:29 | <Philip`> | (but I don't think I did) |
| 21:30 | <Philip`> | After seemingly having logged in with that code, it still says "You must be logged in to vote." |
| 21:31 | <Philip`> | If I log in with an invalid address/code, it doesn't actually do anything different - it just reloads the page with ?email=x%40y.com&code=z and nothing much happens |
| 21:32 | <Philip`> | In FF3, the whole page just says "Scripting error: Script error. in javascript:%20eval(__firebugTemp__); line 0" (plus a Reload button) |
| 21:33 | <Philip`> | (perhaps partly because I've got a half-broken Firebug installed) |
| 21:33 | <Philip`> | Oh, now it says "Scripting error: document.getElementById("no-js-warning") has no properties in http://www.whatwg.org/issues/ line 157" |
| 21:35 | <Philip`> | IE6 (in Wine) has nothing other than a single empty button on the page |
| 21:36 | <Philip`> | (My earlier problems were in Opera) |
| 21:37 | <Philip`> | Aha, Konqueror can log in |
| 21:37 | <Philip`> | but nothing happens when clicking a "vote" button |
| 21:37 | <Philip`> | (Browser interoperability is fun!) |
| 21:39 | <Philip`> | Nice idea, though :-) |
| 21:41 | <Philip`> | I think it would be nice if you could vote on a whole category, rather than having to choose specific emails, since e.g. someone implementing <video> would probably want all of the graphics-video issues to be addressed |
| 21:46 | <Hixie> | Philip`: what browser? |
| 21:46 | <Hixie> | i only tested firefox3 and safari3 |
| 21:47 | <Philip`> | I was using Opera 9.2 first |
| 21:48 | <Hixie> | yeah opera has some weird bugs |
| 21:48 | <Hixie> | i didn't work around any bugs in this |
| 21:48 | <Hixie> | you'll need a 100% compliant browser :-) |
| 21:49 | <Hixie> | (for the things i use) |
| 21:49 | <Hixie> | interesting idea regarding voting for a category |
| 21:49 | <Hixie> | though i don't really want to allow that since the categories can change on a whim |
| 21:51 | <Philip`> | Aha, it seems to work in FF3 if I remove Firebug |
| 21:52 | <Philip`> | It also looks like the vote I made in Konqueror did actually get counted, though it didn't give me any feedback in the browser (whereas it does give feedback in FF3) |
| 21:54 | <Hixie> | cool |
| 21:54 | zcorpan_ | will hunt down the bugs in opera tomorrow |
| 21:55 | <Philip`> | Is it intentional that it doesn't say who each email is from? |
| 21:55 | <Hixie> | yes |
| 22:04 | <mpt> | So much for HTML 5 being backward-compatible :-P |
| 22:04 | <jgraham> | Hixie: Am I blind or is there a step missing from the table model construction algorithm? Somewhere around step 18 I expect current element to be set to the next child of the table element but I can't see where that happens |
| 22:04 | jgraham | can send email if you don't want to look now |
| 22:29 | zcorpan_ | voted for "Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName" |
| 22:30 | <zcorpan_> | Hixie: when pressing the Vote button, shouldn't there be some feedback that the vote was successful or something? |
| 22:31 | <Philip`> | zcorpan_: There was feedback when I did it in FF3 |
| 22:31 | <zcorpan_> | Philip`: oh. i didn't get any feedback. Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9a8pre) Gecko/2007081505 Minefield/3.0a8pre |
| 22:33 | <Philip`> | It changes into a "Remote Vote" button and lists me as having voted for it, as soon as I click |
| 22:33 | <Philip`> | in Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9a8pre) Gecko/2007081904 Minefield/3.0a8pre |
| 22:38 | <zcorpan_> | oh yep, works in today's build |
| 22:54 | <zcorpan_> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Har-PRP4X9U svg + <video> |
| 22:56 | <hasather_> | zcorpan_: cool |
| 22:56 | <zcorpan_> | http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2007/08/svg-video-demo.html is the post about it |
