| 00:00 | <Hixie> | they didn't check robots.txt, either |
| 00:01 | <jruderman> | Hixie: clearly, a big tic tac toe fan |
| 00:01 | <gsnedders> | I mean, I don't read robots.txt everytime before I read a site |
| 00:02 | <jruderman> | gsnedders: you need the "Grab robots.txt" Firefox extension |
| 00:02 | gsnedders | doesn't use Fx |
| 00:03 | <jruderman> | gsnedders: it has an option to show whether the current page is robot-excluded in the status bar |
| 00:03 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: no, but presumably one would do so before crawling the entire site |
| 00:03 | <jruderman> | (just kidding, i made that up) |
| 00:03 | <gsnedders> | jruderman: knowing how useless some extensions are, that's believable :) |
| 00:04 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: maybe I would. depends how busy I am. |
| 00:04 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: i'd hope your software would, at least :-) |
| 00:04 | <jruderman> | lol at "The clouds of tagging" |
| 00:04 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: oh, I was talking about doing it all manually |
| 00:05 | <chipig> | roy needs to making posse badges. |
| 00:05 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: this was clearly an automatic thing |
| 00:05 | <Philip`> | If you're writing some automated web-page-downloader that only downloads one page per site, should you still respect robots.txt (given that fetching it would double the number of requests)? |
| 00:05 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: well, from the size of your site, that's obvious. I was hardly serious |
| 00:05 | <gsnedders> | (I mean, when was I ever serious?) |
| 00:05 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: :-) |
| 00:05 | gsnedders | tacklehugs Hixie |
| 00:06 | Hixie | steps out of the way of the tackle |
| 00:06 | <Hixie> | Philip`: probably not |
| 00:06 | <jruderman> | http://www.google.com/search?q=mordorsoft "Did you mean: microsoft" |
| 00:06 | <jruderman> | google++ |
| 00:06 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: and the hugs? |
| 00:06 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: dunno, i don't know you :-) |
| 00:07 | gsnedders | adds to list of things to do when he first meets Hixie |
| 00:07 | <Hixie> | -_- |
| 00:07 | <gsnedders> | :D |
| 00:07 | <gsnedders> | (not that there is actually a list with anything on it, but…) |
| 00:09 | <gsnedders> | rm list-of-things-to-do-when-I-meet-hixie |
| 00:09 | <gsnedders> | and on that rm, g'nite |
| 00:10 | <Hixie> | nn |
| 00:14 | <jgraham> | Hmm. Sleep would be a good idea I guess |
| 00:23 | <karlUshi> | robots.txt is useful for certain things but not all unfortunately. |
| 00:23 | <karlUshi> | I think it is useful to say, I want this indexed. |
| 00:24 | <karlUshi> | but very poor for blocking access. |
| 00:25 | <karlUshi> | For some bots, I have been using .htaccess instead of robots.txt |
| 00:25 | <karlUshi> | things like this in the .htaccess |
| 00:25 | <karlUshi> | SetEnvIfNoCase User-Agent "Technoratibot" bad_bot |
| 00:25 | <karlUshi> | SetEnvIfNoCase User-Agent "Technorati Feed Engine" bad_bot |
| 00:25 | <karlUshi> | SetEnvIfNoCase User-Agent "Microsoft Office" bad_bot |
| 00:25 | <karlUshi> | Order Allow,Deny |
| 00:25 | <karlUshi> | Allow from all |
| 00:25 | <karlUshi> | Deny from env=bad_bot |
| 00:27 | <Hixie> | hm, dave raises an interesting point about auto-pausing cue ranges |
| 00:27 | <Hixie> | since seeking affects them now, it's hard to know when to fire the autopause |
| 00:50 | <bradee-oh> | Hixie: okay okay |
| 00:50 | <Hixie> | heh |
| 00:50 | <bradee-oh> | Hixie: you've beat me over the head with "not important enough for v1" |
| 00:50 | <Hixie> | :-) |
| 00:50 | <bradee-oh> | Hixie: enough times... that I'll let it go :) |
| 00:50 | <Hixie> | i'm mostly chanelling aaron on this i think |
| 00:53 | <bradee-oh> | Hixie: okay okay =D |
| 02:47 | <jruderman> | Hixie: "mouseydown"? |
| 02:47 | <jruderman> | on http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/section-contenteditable.html |
| 02:47 | <jruderman> | is that a typo? |
| 02:54 | jwalden | snickers |
| 02:59 | <othermaciej> | heh |
| 03:00 | <Hixie> | fixed. |
| 03:00 | <Hixie> | (good catch.) |
| 03:02 | <jruderman> | Hixie: "The in-memory representation is known as 'DOM5 HTML'" -- i think that's confusing and it should be "HTML5 DOM" instead |
| 03:02 | <jruderman> | Hixie: i often say "DOM 2 Core" to mean "DOM Level 2 Core", but "DOM5 HTML" does not mean "DOM Level 5 HTML" |
| 03:03 | <jruderman> | Hixie: it's not just me; see http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/DOM_Levels for example |
| 03:04 | <othermaciej> | I find DOM5 HTML confusing too |
| 03:04 | <othermaciej> | HTML5 DOM makes more sense |
| 03:04 | <othermaciej> | just as there is an SVG1.2 DOM, not DOM1.2 SVG |
| 03:05 | <jruderman> | 'Comments that contain the string "-->" can be represented in "DOM5 HTML" but not in "HTML5" and "XHTML5".' mmm, non-serializable doms |
| 03:05 | <jruderman> | well |
| 03:05 | <jruderman> | they can be serialized as scripts to generate them |
| 03:05 | <jruderman> | (i have a script that does that) |
| 03:09 | <jruderman> | it even has a text/html mode that whines about some non-serializable things, such as BR elements with children |
| 03:09 | <jruderman> | but it doesn't complain about adjacent text nodes |
| 03:31 | <jruderman> | what does "This specification is independent of the various proprietary UI languages that various vendors provide." mean? |
| 03:31 | <jruderman> | http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#relationship1 |
| 03:35 | <othermaciej> | I think it's supposed to be some sort of odd aspersion on XUL and XAML and the like |
| 03:39 | <jruderman> | the sentence after it, sure |
| 03:39 | <jruderman> | but i don't understand the sentence i pasted |
| 03:50 | <Hixie> | jruderman: btw please send feedback to one of the lists (or me directly); with few exceptions, i don't track feedback sent on irc |
| 03:50 | <jruderman> | you should track feedback sent on irc ;) |
| 03:50 | <Hixie> | maybe |
| 03:50 | <Hixie> | but i don't :-) |
| 03:51 | <Hixie> | re "DOM5 HTML", i just took the previous name -- DOM2 HTML, with its earlier DOM1 HTML -- and incremented the number to 5. |
| 03:54 | <othermaciej> | yeah but those were part of the DOM, not part of HTML, as would be the current practice |
| 04:06 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: *shrug* |
| 04:07 | <Hixie> | same language, new version... |
| 04:07 | <othermaciej> | it's hardly the world's most important issue |
| 04:10 | <Hixie> | true |
| 07:11 | <jacobolus> | hsivonen: is there a version of the conformance checker which would be of a reasonable size, and able to run w/o a server component, to include with a text editor? |
| 07:26 | <jacobolus> | hsivonen: incidentally, it doesn't seem to like "irc://…" hrefs in a elements. is that proper behavior? |
| 07:56 | <gsnedders> | jacobolus: well, there's no specification for the IRC scheme, which makes any occurrence non-conforming |
| 07:57 | <jacobolus> | hmm. but it's quite useful to put in different schemes in hyperlinks of html documents :) |
| 08:05 | <gsnedders> | jacobolus: from a purely conformance POV, nothing that isn't registered should be used :) |
| 08:24 | <hsivonen> | jacobolus: there is currently only a server version. |
| 08:24 | <hsivonen> | jacobolus: the current way to integrate with a text editor is to run the HTTP server on localhost and to use the Web service API locally as an interprocess communication protocol |
| 09:45 | <Hixie> | is the semicolon at the end of a sql statement part of the sql statement? |
| 09:47 | <Philip`> | Most SQL APIs only accept a single statement-like-thing with no semicolon, so I assume the actual statement doesn't include a semicolon (and it's handled by command-line UIs instead), but that's not very helpful if you want to be precise about what SQL calls a statement |
| 09:48 | <Hixie> | what i really want to know is what are people going to implement? |
| 09:49 | <Lachy> | I thought the semicolon was required |
| 09:51 | <Philip`> | http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/c-api-multiple-queries.html talks about statements "separated" by semicolons (though only when you turn on an appropriate flag), so they're separators rather than terminators in that kind of API |
| 09:52 | <Philip`> | http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/mysql-stmt-prepare.html - "You should not add a terminating semicolon (“;”) or \g to the statement." |
| 09:53 | <Hixie> | yeah but sqlite seems to do it differently |
| 09:57 | <Philip`> | sqlite3_complete is the only thing that the documentation says cares about semicolons, and that's just designed for command-line input - I'm fairly sure the rest of the API doesn't need semicolons (unless that's being hidden by all the language bindings I've used) |
| 09:59 | <Philip`> | (I vaguely think different systems differ in whether a trailing semicolon is ignored or a syntax error, but can't really remember) |
| 10:00 | <Hixie> | need is one thing; i'm worried about allow |
| 10:01 | <Hixie> | <div> is gonna be a pain |
| 10:01 | <Hixie> | i really don't want <body><div>test</div></body> to be conforming (or <body><div><img ...></div></body>) |
| 10:02 | <Hixie> | but people are having issues with my suggestion of <form><p>...</p><p>...</p></form> instead of <form><div>...</div><div>...</div></form> (where ... = <label> ... </label>) |
| 10:05 | Philip` | no longer thinks about block vs inline when writing HTML because it's just a waste of time and makes no practical difference, and would like it if conformance checkers didn't complain about that, but maybe that's just laziness :-) |
| 10:15 | <Hixie> | i think it makes a difference, but i conveniently have to sleep now and can't defend my position. :-) |
| 10:15 | <Hixie> | nn |
| 14:42 | <rene32> | Good morning! ;-) |
| 14:51 | <rene32> | I have an HTML5 feature request. Where do I have to go to so that this is discussed and maybe considered? |
| 14:55 | <Philip`> | rene32: http://www.whatwg.org/mailing-list#specs should be a good place to send ideas |
| 14:56 | <rene32> | Hmm, I don't like mailinglists. Isn't there a place where I can just drop the idea and then leave? :-) |
| 14:57 | <hsivonen> | rene32: well, if you don't take the trouble of subscribing to a list and sending your use cases there, you could state them here and risk them getting forgotten |
| 14:57 | <Philip`> | There's http://forums.whatwg.org/ too |
| 14:58 | <rene32> | hsivonen: Sounds good :-D |
| 14:58 | <rene32> | Maybe I subscribe, discuss the idea and unsubscribe again. |
| 15:02 | <rene32> | In case someone is interested in the idea: I'd like to see a parameter "ellipsis" that tells the browser to replace some text by "..." in case the space to render all text is not sufficient. I think I'll write an email about it to the list. |
| 15:04 | <OmegaJunior> | Doesn't CSS3 do that already? |
| 15:04 | <hsivonen> | rene32: I can tell you right away that there's almost zero chance of that making it into HTML5 |
| 15:04 | <hsivonen> | rene32: you might have better luck with CSS |
| 15:05 | <hsivonen> | rene32: I wouldn't be too surprised if CSS overflow was already extended like this |
| 15:05 | <rene32> | Wrong place? |
| 15:05 | <Dashiva> | text-overflow: ellipsis |
| 15:05 | <rene32> | So I have the right ideas but post them in the wrong places and too late.... tough luck :-D |
| 15:06 | <Dashiva> | Opera has some support for it, but it's a pain to use |
| 15:06 | <Dashiva> | Don't know about other browsers |
| 15:06 | <rene32> | is that CSS3? |
| 15:07 | <rene32> | it's probably end ellipsis only (opposed to centre ellipsis) |
| 15:07 | <Dashiva> | Yes |
| 15:08 | <rene32> | 9.5 has it implemented already? |
| 15:08 | <Dashiva> | It used to be in css3-text, but was removed. It's also listed on msdn |
| 15:09 | <rene32> | What does it mean "it's listed on msdn"? |
| 15:09 | <Dashiva> | Meaning IE supports it somehow, but I don't know the details myself |
| 15:09 | <OmegaJunior> | That's the documentation network for Microsoft Programmers: msdn.microsoft.com |
| 15:10 | <rene32> | I know. But I did not know what it means when something is listed there. I know what it means if something is listed on eBay though ;-) |
| 15:10 | <OmegaJunior> | :) |
| 15:33 | <Lachy> | hey, does anyone know what the country code is for calling the USA? |
| 15:34 | <Lachy> | oh, it's +1. How simple :-) |
| 15:35 | Philip` | wonders who chose that numbering system |
| 15:36 | <OmegaJunior> | From the USA to my country: 0011 |
| 15:36 | <OmegaJunior> | I don't know why. |
| 21:20 | <ezyang> | Hi, I'm curious to know what the development status of PH5P is <http://jero.net/lab/ph5p/>; |
| 21:29 | <ezyang> | I submitted a patch to Jero a few month backs that corrected some minor implementation bugs, but the public code doesn't seem to have been updated |
| 21:39 | <ezyang> | t |
| 21:39 | <ezyang> | . |
| 21:43 | <Hixie> | ezyang: do you know who's doing it? |
| 21:46 | <ezyang> | As in wrote the program? |
| 21:46 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 21:46 | <Hixie> | hm, i expect the latest mail to public-xhtml2 will make things interesting |
| 21:46 | <ezyang> | I'm under the impression that it's the work of Jeroen van der Meer, since it's on his website |
| 21:46 | <ezyang> | I'm probably misunderstanding something |
| 21:47 | <Hixie> | no, i was just curious |
| 21:47 | <Hixie> | i don't think Jeroen is here, though |
| 21:47 | <ezyang> | Yeah |
| 21:47 | <Hixie> | he would be the one who would know how he was doing |
| 21:48 | <Hixie> | :-) |
| 21:48 | <ezyang> | I was trawling the IRC logs, though, and he's popped in here once or twice before, so I was wondering if any of you guys knew :-) |
| 21:49 | <ezyang> | thanks though |
| 21:49 | <ezyang> | public-xhtml2? |
| 21:51 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: what email? link? |
| 21:53 | <gavin_> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0001.html , presumably |
| 21:55 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 22:21 | <Hixie> | wtf is with this lack of e-mail |
| 22:22 | <Hixie> | i've gotten almost no e-mail recently |
| 22:22 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: you want me to send you some? :) |
| 22:22 | <Hixie> | not so much |
| 22:22 | <Hixie> | i'm just curious as to why i haven't gotten any |
| 22:22 | <Hixie> | i suppose it could be because people are travelling to the plenary |
| 22:23 | <gsnedders> | already? wow. |
| 22:24 | <Hixie> | if i wasn't in the US already, i'd be leaving tomorrow morning |
| 22:24 | <Hixie> | or even tonight |
| 22:24 | <Hixie> | gotta acclimate |
| 22:27 | <gsnedders> | meh. I can't really remember much about going to the US when I last went (around 10 years ago, when I was five) |
| 22:27 | <gsnedders> | I can remember being amazed at arriving in CA at the same time as I left home |
| 22:30 | <gsnedders> | hopefully I'll be able to go next year to France |
| 22:54 | jgraham | hopes he won't get too jetlagged on the way out |
| 22:54 | <Hixie> | going west isn't too bad |
| 22:55 | <jgraham> | Hixie: So I'd been led to believe, but I went to Japan and was fine on the way there and really bad on the way back |
| 22:55 | <Hixie> | heh |