| 00:11 | <annevk> | http://remiel.info/post/40766424/on-googles-web-the-user-is-1-google-is-0 |
| 09:00 | <hsivonen> | http://www.steamd.net/2008/06/html-vs-xhtml-rumble-in-the-ju.html |
| 09:06 | <Dashiva> | He seems to be missing the point |
| 09:07 | <Dashiva> | "No one can argue that HTML 4 is a well documented standard." |
| 09:08 | <Dashiva> | He left out a not, but it became all the more appropriate :) |
| 10:05 | <Lachy> | LOL. He is indeed a web standards wannabe. :-) |
| 11:43 | <takkaria> | I like Justin James' objection to including Web Forms 2 |
| 11:43 | <takkaria> | "This can only lead to problems. Without this, developers are forced to perform server-side validation. With it, developers will rely upon it, and create massive security holes in their applications." |
| 11:44 | <Dashiva> | Yeah, because nobody relies on client side validation right now |
| 11:48 | <Philip`> | It's not about absolutes - some developers will use it, and some of those will not do server-side validation when they otherwise would, because they're lazy or they don't understand why it's needed, and some of those cases will be security holes |
| 11:57 | <Lachy> | it seems he objects to the whole thing |
| 11:58 | <Lachy> | though I somewhat agree with him about the XML form submission. I don't see why it's necessary at all, it doesn't add any more expressiveness beyond other form submission methods |
| 11:59 | <Lachy> | and Hixie already said the repetition model would probably be dropped, but I don't mind it being included |
| 12:00 | <takkaria> | forms just aren't part of a static document, so by having forms in the spec at all HTML becomes a pseudo-declarative programming language |
| 12:01 | <takkaria> | to then claim that adding the repetition model makes a difference to that is a bit off, I think |
| 12:11 | <Philip`> | takkaria: I have lots of documents with forms that are very static since they're printed on paper |
| 12:11 | <Philip`> | but none of those have buttons to add or remove rows |
| 12:12 | <Philip`> | so the repetition does make a difference in that way compared to basic forms |
| 12:18 | <takkaria> | forms on the Web are interactive, though; they say "put a control here" and "put a control here" |
| 12:19 | <takkaria> | not "draw an outline here" |
| 12:20 | <takkaria> | you're certainly not marking up text by providing forms, so in that way forms are describing a UI |
| 12:21 | <takkaria> | so all that varies then is how much UI you want to allow |
| 20:45 | gsnedders | wonders how long this will last |
| 20:46 | <Lachy> | gsnedders, how long what will last? |
| 20:47 | <gsnedders> | Lachy: this wi-fi conneciton |
| 20:47 | <gsnedders> | On another note, I have an almost completely working spec-gen |
| 20:52 | <gsnedders> | that wasn't the answer I was looking for |
| 20:54 | <gsnedders> | heh. not only is my web connection teh sux the webserver I want it down :P |
| 21:53 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: Can you change /style/specification to reference .toc and not ul.toc (my spec-gen outputs ol, as it really should be) |
| 21:53 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: (mine also only has .toc on the out-most level) |
| 21:57 | gsnedders | is still debating whether to just do s/[DATE]/4th July 2008/ or something in the structure |
| 22:00 | <Hixie> | done |