| 00:00 | <BenMillard> | jgraham, updated the first analysis: http://projectcerbera.com/blog/2008/08/headers |
| 00:01 | <BenMillard> | (search for "request") |
| 03:30 | <PatomaS> | Hi |
| 03:32 | <PatomaS> | i have a lot of questions, and of course for you most of them should be boring, but well, i'm just trying to get a better idea of this |
| 03:32 | <kingryan> | hi PatomaS |
| 03:32 | <PatomaS> | :) |
| 03:32 | <PatomaS> | hi |
| 03:32 | <kingryan> | what are your questions? |
| 03:33 | <PatomaS> | well, many of them, after reading here and there, and trying to think a little, usually have one thing in common and that is, When and why was the necessity of joining html and xhtml born? |
| 03:34 | <PatomaS> | or may be i should rephrase that |
| 03:34 | <PatomaS> | ? |
| 03:35 | <kingryan> | well, they've always been joined, in that xhtml is an xml dialect of the html language |
| 03:35 | <PatomaS> | yes, that's true |
| 03:36 | <PatomaS> | but the line was evolving/changing in one direction and now it seems a bit chaotic ... |
| 03:36 | <PatomaS> | i mean |
| 03:37 | <kingryan> | yes, there was a fork: xhtml2 went one direction and, well, everyone else went another |
| 03:37 | <PatomaS> | ha ha ha |
| 03:37 | <PatomaS> | yes, specially when they wrote that the v2 won't be backwards compatible ... |
| 03:38 | <PatomaS> | but reading some of their material in the list, it seems that at the end, it won't be as differente, if it makes it till the end, of course |
| 03:38 | <PatomaS> | i meant that different |
| 03:40 | <PatomaS> | i suppose that part of the chaos feling comes from two main areas, at least for me, one is the extremely complex specification of html 5, and the mess in the w3c lists |
| 03:41 | <kingryan> | yeah |
| 03:41 | <PatomaS> | for instance, the changes in css3, using namespaces, plus the overlapping with the html group and the xhtml group, and things like that ... |
| 03:41 | <kingryan> | the html5 spec is complex, but not as complex as browsers :) |
| 03:41 | <PatomaS> | that's true |
| 03:42 | <PatomaS> | i'm sure they are complex, specially adding more and more features |
| 03:43 | <PatomaS> | and of course the idea of a browser behaving purist is 100% unachievable |
| 03:43 | <kingryan> | purity doesn't matter, only interoperability. it doesn't matter what browsers do, as long as they all do the same thing |
| 03:44 | <PatomaS> | well, yeah, which we know it is not happenning |
| 03:44 | <PatomaS> | but they are behaving closer, i think ... |
| 03:44 | <PatomaS> | at least in many aspects, common aspects |
| 03:44 | <kingryan> | right, things are getting better. and i think the whatwg has facilitated that |
| 03:45 | <PatomaS> | well, i know this is not the best place to say it, but i don't know if the whatwg, but the people that forms it ... |
| 03:45 | <PatomaS> | and with that i mean |
| 03:46 | <PatomaS> | that the people in the group have been fighting for get thigs right, or better, or easier, most of them are kind of icons or referents you can use to follow or to help develop yourself (myself) |
| 03:47 | <PatomaS> | and for that, i'm ver very thankful |
| 03:48 | <PatomaS> | but about the html5 thing, i'm still, reluctant in may aspects, mainly with reasons, why's and the linke, and agree with many of the contents and ideas ... |
| 03:48 | <PatomaS> | i don't know if i that was clear enough? |
| 03:50 | <takkaria> | are you asking a question or just thinking out loud? :) |
| 03:50 | <codedread> | annevk: because despite outward appearances, i do have other work I need to do :) |
| 03:51 | <PatomaS> | sorry for that ... |
| 03:52 | <PatomaS> | yes, i had questions, and some of them are not that straight forward ... |
| 03:52 | <PatomaS> | so, i'l try to write that in the forum ... |
| 03:52 | <PatomaS> | :) |
| 03:53 | <codedread> | (and i had the quote handy from an email) |
| 07:39 | <annevk> | codedread, ok, though testing that should have taken as long as writing the e-mail or less (simply pasting the given example in a file and loading that in Opera) |
| 07:43 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: good to see changes on the EULAs. thanks. |
| 08:29 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, are you here? |
| 11:28 | Philip` | thinks browsers should detect when text/plain content looks like RSS, and then still display it as text/plain but show the little feed autodiscovery icon so you can still choose to subscribe to it (at which point it'll start ignoring the content-type entirely) |
| 11:36 | <zcorpan> | aaronlev: i've checked "watch this page" but i'm not getting emails. is that the way to subscribe to changes? |
| 11:37 | <aaronlev> | zcorpan: check your preference |
| 11:37 | <aaronlev> | your prefs |
| 11:46 | <annevk> | euh, since when is #%3F supposed to match name="%3F" rather than name="?" |
| 11:46 | <annevk> | or is it supposed to match both? |
| 11:46 | <annevk> | and browsers do this for id="" too?! |
| 11:47 | <annevk> | (I couldn't find the door) |
| 11:48 | <zcorpan> | annevk: for usemap? |
| 11:49 | <annevk> | dunno about usemap, this is about fragids |
| 11:49 | <annevk> | eg, href="#%3F" |
| 11:50 | <zcorpan> | annevk: ah. i remember that being discussed on the list sometime ago. didn't firefox do the right thing? |
| 11:50 | <Hixie> | annevk: when you figure it out, mail the list :-) |
| 11:50 | <annevk> | ah, yes, but not for the name="" attribute |
| 11:51 | <annevk> | Hixie, sure thing |
| 11:51 | annevk | goes back to fixing XHR2 from which he was distracted as it's quite boring |
| 12:22 | <Hixie> | two more elements to summarise |
| 12:22 | <Hixie> | and then the hard work begins |
| 12:23 | <annevk> | whatwg.org is rather quick again, nice |
| 12:23 | <Hixie> | nn |
| 12:25 | <annevk> | Hixie, btw, new Option takes 4 args |
| 12:25 | <annevk> | I e-mailed about this a long time ago iirc |
| 12:42 | <zcorpan> | is <input type=hidden> interactive content? |
| 12:42 | <codedread> | annevk: fair enough - i should have tested (and I did after I sent the email actually), but i also thought it important that there was an apparent difference of opinion between some folks at Opera (chaals seemed to think that making things stricter wouldn't cause any problems with content creators while Erik seemed to think the opposite) ... though as you mention I may have confused what each were referring to |
| 12:43 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: I am now! Even if you aren't! |
| 12:48 | <Philip`> | Email needs better metadata markup, since Gmail's heuristics keep getting it wrong -- 'Would you like to... Add to calendar: "r2148 - [] (0) WF2: Thu Sep 4, 2008 3:51pm"' |
| 12:49 | <Philip`> | (It's doing alright at extracting the date, just not at determining whether that date is the kind of thing I might possibly want to include in a calendar) |
| 12:50 | <annevk> | codedread, on further reflection, no big deal, I get annoyed sometimes with public-html people always asking questions and never really doing anything, but you don't really fit into that category |
| 12:51 | <gsnedders> | WF2 merge started, then? |
| 12:54 | <annevk> | gsnedders, day ago or so |
| 12:55 | <annevk> | Philip`, did you get lxml to work on DreamHost? |
| 12:55 | gsnedders | is somewhat he's amazed that he totally missed it |
| 12:55 | <annevk> | I'm willing to work on an Anolis Web service soonish but I need some help getting the dependencies to run |
| 12:56 | <Philip`> | annevk: No, but I never tried |
| 12:56 | <Philip`> | I just run the spec-splitter on my own server |
| 12:57 | <Philip`> | (I'm not sure whether running the spec-gen on there would be sensible or not, since the server doesn't have much CPU or bandwidth) |
| 12:57 | <annevk> | your own server? |
| 12:58 | <Philip`> | (If it used lxml's HTML parser/serialiser instead of html5lib then that'd probably solve the CPU concerns :-) ) |
| 12:58 | <annevk> | I don't really need you to run it, I need to able to play with it myself :) |
| 12:58 | <gsnedders> | As I said, I can host it P |
| 12:58 | <gsnedders> | * :P |
| 12:58 | <Philip`> | annevk: Yes, or at least my server-like computer that is sitting in my parents' house behind an ADSL line :-) |
| 12:59 | <Philip`> | annevk: If you just want to play with it yourself, can't you install it on your own local machine? |
| 12:59 | <annevk> | that didn't work out either for some reason |
| 12:59 | <annevk> | oh well, back to XHR2 for me I guess |
| 13:01 | <Philip`> | Hixie: By the way, if you want to start using the new spec-gen some time, I've got an updated version of the spec-splitter that should work properly with it |
| 13:24 | <annevk> | grmbl, so IE does not decode the name="" attribute |
| 13:26 | <annevk> | I meant, does not decode name="" or fragment |
| 13:27 | <annevk> | which seems like a violation of RFC 3986 |
| 13:27 | <annevk> | (fragment takes pchar, which takes pct-encoded) |
| 13:28 | <annevk> | Firefox decodes both |
| 13:28 | <annevk> | Opera decodes just fragment |
| 13:30 | <annevk> | (as per HTML5) |
| 13:31 | annevk | makes a few tests so people can cross test |
| 14:26 | <Philip`> | Hmm, it seems I had some code that was crashing Eclipse's Java compiler |
| 14:27 | <Philip`> | and every time I started Eclipse, it started automatically compiling all my code in the background, and crashed |
| 14:27 | <Philip`> | But it seems alright now after I moved the project files away and then moved them back again, which I don't really understand :-( |
| 15:17 | Philip` | discovers unsurprisingly but happily that the Validator.nu parser works in Jython very easily |
| 15:18 | <hdh> | is that jython2.5? does it cope with unicode well? |
| 15:18 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: nice. which Jython version? |
| 15:19 | <Philip`> | 2.5a1 and 2.2.1 |
| 15:20 | <Philip`> | though I'm only using it in the trivialest possible way, parsing a string (via StringReader) to SAX and printing tag names |
| 15:22 | <zcorpan> | Philip`: cool |
| 15:25 | <Philip`> | Unicode seems to work in both versions, at least in my limited testing |
| 15:25 | <Philip`> | (Passing the front page of ja.wikipedia.org to the parser (via FileInputStream), it calls the SAX characters method with something like |
| 15:25 | <Philip`> | array('c',[u'\u51fa', u'\u5178', ':', ' ', u'\u30d5', u'\u30ea', u'\u30fc', u'\u767e', u'\u79d1', u'\u4e8b', u'\u5178', u'\u300e', u'\u30a6', u'\u30a3', u'\u30ad', u'\u30da', u'\u30c7', u'\u30a3', u'\u30a2', u'\uff08', 'W', 'i', 'k', 'i', 'p', 'e', 'd', 'i', 'a', u'\uff09', u'\u300f']) |
| 15:25 | <Philip`> | which looks about right, I think) |
| 15:26 | <hdh> | thanks |
| 15:38 | <Philip`> | hsivonen: http://about.validator.nu/htmlparser/apidocs/nu/validator/htmlparser/sax/HtmlParser.html - "void parseFragment(InputSource input, String context) Parser a fragment." - s/Parser/Parses/ |
| 15:50 | <Philip`> | http://www.jython.org/Project/roadmap.html - "Jython 3.0 (or Jython 3000 to denote the likely year of appearance) ..." - that's not sounding very optimistic |
| 16:02 | <hendry> | does anyone know about the browser supportedMimeTypes object? http://static.webvm.net/supportedMimeTypes.html ? I've seen it in scripts but I can't find good docs about it and my test fails. :/ |
| 16:03 | <annevk> | don't rely on it |
| 16:04 | <hendry> | annevk: i'm trying to find a reliable way of detecting plugins cross-platform. BrowserPlus use it and several other ppl like Apple I think. Any other suggestions? :) |
| 16:05 | <hendry> | still doesn't explain why the test doesn't finish ... http://static.webvm.net/supportedMimeTypes.html |
| 16:06 | <annevk> | don't use plugins? :) |
| 16:06 | <hendry> | annevk: plugins are the future dude :) |
| 16:09 | <hendry> | oops i see the problem. navigator.mimeTypes was what I needed. Crikey i need coffee. |
| 16:10 | <smedero> | In Gecko I think you have to use navigator.mimeTypes, right? http://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/window.navigator.mimeTypes |
| 16:10 | <smedero> | ahh |
| 16:10 | <smedero> | Not sure what support for that is like either... |
| 16:11 | <Philip`> | hendry: Plugins are so much not the future that Google released a whole web browser to get around the problems of distributing Gears as a plugin :-) |
| 16:11 | <hendry> | Philip`: that's one theory :) |
| 16:12 | <Philip`> | Plugins look boring so nobody's going to bother downloading them; but a new browser can have an exciting shiny new interface which will make people pay attention and download in their millions |
| 16:12 | <annevk> | hendry, hopefully it stays that way |
| 16:13 | <Philip`> | and if that happens to have the plugin's functionality integrated into it, so much the better |
| 16:14 | <annevk> | hmm, Firefox doesn't work with <!doctype> (Opera and IE do), but we've been over that, I think |
| 16:14 | <Philip`> | It works with <!doctypehtml> though, as do Opera and IE |
| 16:14 | <hendry> | well i'm working on a product that hopes to compete ultimately with gears. so i'm hoping it will become easier to install plugins (like extensions) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=453632 |
| 16:15 | <Philip`> | which is one less character, which is like a terabyte less data when you consider the whole web |
| 16:15 | <annevk> | though per hixie's argument Firefox 3 doesn't matter anymore when the spec is done |
| 16:15 | <Philip`> | Maybe HTML5 should say that <!doctype> must trigger standards mode, so HTML6 can shorten the required doctype? |
| 16:17 | <annevk> | maybe, in some way <!doctype html> is sensible, as it still works for XML |
| 16:18 | <annevk> | but then it doesn't work with common XML tools |
| 18:27 | <Philip`> | http://www.google.com/search?q=css3-color - "www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/ - 125k - Cached - Similar pages / by A Authors - Related articles - All 6 versions" - that author name detection thing is really a bit rubbish |
| 18:27 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: just a bit |
| 18:28 | Philip` | sees that page even uses hCard to mark up names |
| 18:30 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: without profile! |
| 18:30 | <tantek> | I think I added the hCards to CSS3 Color before we had a profile URI for hCard |
| 18:31 | <hsivonen> | tantek: does profile solve a Real Problem and do hcard consumers have an incentive to start observing rel=profile? |
| 18:31 | <hsivonen> | tantek: that is, isn't class=vcard enough of a disambiguator? |
| 18:32 | <tantek> | profiles references solve the same real problems that !DOCTYPE references do |
| 18:33 | <hsivonen> | I read that as a "no" :-) |
| 18:34 | <tantek> | class="vcard" is enough of a disambiguator as much as the <html> root element start tag is enough of a disambiguator |
| 18:34 | <Philip`> | The <html> root element start tag is optional :-) |
| 18:34 | <tantek> | hsivonen, it means that those that care about !DOCTYPE references also care about profile references, and those that don't, don't. |
| 18:35 | <hsivonen> | tantek: I see |
| 18:36 | <tantek> | ah, correction, class="vcard" is enough of a disambiguator as much as the <body> start tag is enough of a disambiguator |
| 18:36 | <Philip`> | The <body> start tag is optional :-) |
| 18:36 | <tantek> | are we talking HTML4 here or HTML5? |
| 18:36 | <Philip`> | Both |
| 18:37 | <tantek> | ah, just <title> then? |
| 18:37 | <tantek> | right, that's the one then |
| 18:38 | <Philip`> | <!DOCTYPE html><title></title> is the shortest (syntactically?) valid HTML5 document, and I think <!DOCTYPE blah blah blah etc etc etc><title></title> is the shortest HTML4 one |
| 18:39 | <hasather> | Philip`: you need body element in HTML 4 at least |
| 18:39 | Philip` | wonders if class="vcard" could be unambiguously optional |
| 18:39 | <tantek> | Philip, feel free to join us in #microformats on that question ;) |
| 18:40 | <Philip`> | Oh, okay |
| 18:40 | <Philip`> | I think <!DOCTYPE blah blah blah etc etc etc><title></title>x is the shortest HTML4 one, then |
| 18:41 | <Philip`> | tantek: That would put me dangerously close to doing something useful, rather than just wondering randomly in an unrelated IRC channel |
| 18:48 | <Philip`> | krijnh: Your logs' referrer list has an interesting positive feedback effect |
| 18:48 | <Philip`> | You are the top result on Google for "chrome error 104", because it matches the occurrences of that string in your referrer list |
| 18:49 | <Philip`> | and the string is in your referrer list because lots of people are visiting your site through Google with it, because you are the top result on Google |
| 18:50 | <annevk> | sounds like epic fail on Google's behalf |
| 18:53 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: Only under Transitional can you have just "x". Strict is a shorter word than Transitional in the DTD, so <p>x is needed |
| 18:53 | <Philip`> | Indeed, since it's their fault that people are searching for that string in the first place |
| 18:54 | <Philip`> | gsnedders: Bah :-( |
| 18:54 | <Philip`> | gsnedders: though you can use just <p> and not <p>x |
| 18:54 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: yeah |
| 18:57 | <Philip`> | <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC"-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN"><title></title><p> gets through the W3C validator with no errors, though I don't entirely understand how |
| 18:57 | <Philip`> | (The lack of space after PUBLIC saves one character) |
| 18:58 | <Philip`> | (The validator says it's Transitional, but appears to apply Strict rules to it) |
| 18:58 | gsnedders | extracts his copy from under the Oxford Style Manual |
| 18:58 | <gsnedders> | *of the SGML Handbook |
| 18:59 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: You need the space |
| 19:00 | <Philip`> | gsnedders: Tell that to validator.w3.org :-p |
| 19:00 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: No |
| 19:00 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: I'm lazy :P |
| 19:00 | <Philip`> | gsnedders: I'm lazier |
| 19:01 | Philip` | is currently too lazy to even bother going home |
| 19:01 | gsnedders | sometimes stays in the school library after school due to that |
| 19:09 | <gsnedders> | smedero: Nice mix of English and French |
| 19:11 | <hasather> | Philip`: you don't need the space |
| 19:11 | <hasather> | it's a parameters separator IIRC |
| 19:11 | <smedero> | gsnedders: I thought you might enjoy the "english language" version of their site... |
| 19:11 | Philip` | will go home and let gsnedders and hasather fight it out :-) |
| 19:11 | <hasather> | Philip`: those can be ommitted in some circumstances |
| 19:11 | <hasather> | *omitted |
| 19:12 | <gsnedders> | smedero: No, I just gave up on that mix and looked at the French |
| 19:12 | <gsnedders> | hasather: Ah, I just assumed ps+ meant you needed one or more ps char |
| 19:12 | <gsnedders> | smedero: No room for three people though :( |
| 19:13 | <smedero> | sigh |
| 19:13 | <gsnedders> | smedero: They seem to never have three bedroom rooms free |
| 19:14 | <hasather> | gsnedders: p. 372: "A required ps that is adjacent to a delimiter or another ps can be can be omitted if no ambiguity would be created thereby." :) |
| 19:14 | <gsnedders> | hasather: ah |
| 19:14 | <gsnedders> | hasather: I was too lazy to check that |
| 19:14 | <gsnedders> | :) |
| 19:14 | <smedero> | they don't have a "unlucky sob, gets to sleep on the floor" checkbox? |
| 19:14 | smedero | is actually quite happy to sleep on floors |
| 19:15 | <Philip`> | Maybe they would be happier if you claimed you were going to share a bed |
| 19:15 | <Philip`> | (but then you could actually sleep on the floor instead, depending on your preferences) |
| 19:17 | <gsnedders> | smedero: As I said, I can just stay elsewhere before the TPAC |
| 19:17 | <gsnedders> | smedero: And it's only us two on the Friday night |
| 19:17 | <gsnedders> | (That sounded wrong) |
| 19:17 | <smedero> | snuggletastic |
| 19:18 | <smedero> | alright, I can't actually remember what BenMillard found at the other hotel now... |
| 19:18 | <smedero> | was it 4 nights? |
| 19:18 | <gsnedders> | smedero: Mon–Fri |
| 19:18 | <smedero> | oh, well that's not so bad. |
| 19:18 | <gsnedders> | smedero: Yeah, 4 nights |
| 19:18 | <smedero> | not sure what I'm doing about saturday. |
| 19:19 | gsnedders | can probably find some distant relation to scrounge off if he has to |
| 19:19 | <smedero> | could probably find someone at the conference willing to lend a hand. |
| 19:19 | <smedero> | well, let's just do the 4 nights then |
| 19:19 | <gsnedders> | smedero: Hmm. All they have is doubles for the Friday night |
| 19:28 | <annevk> | Philip`, http://damowmow.com/playground/not-html-yet-valid.html |
| 19:39 | <Dashiva> | Error: Required children missing from element body. |
| 19:40 | <Dashiva> | Is that another way of saying "implied body must have at least one child"? |
| 21:53 | <gsnedders> | Anyone got anything they want me to do before the weekend? |
| 21:54 | <annevk> | release a Web service? |
| 21:54 | <annevk> | have fun? |
| 21:54 | gsnedders | sighs |
| 21:54 | <gsnedders> | s/want/need/ |
| 21:54 | <virtuelv> | stop feeling like I've been run over |
| 21:54 | gsnedders | inflates virtuelv |
| 21:55 | <virtuelv> | gsnedders: nothing worse than having been on my first run in ten years |
| 21:55 | <virtuelv> | I couldn't do it back then, because of shin splints |
| 21:55 | <virtuelv> | and now I feel like shit |
| 22:01 | <Hixie> | so has there ever been an htmlwg telecon where someone changed their mind about something? or where any other kind of actual progress was made? |
| 22:01 | <Hixie> | every time i read the minutes they just seem to be people repeating the arguments they made in the mailing list |
| 22:01 | <Hixie> | like some sort of weird group therapy session |
| 22:02 | <annevk> | I wasn't sure either why we had this telcon. Seemed that DanC shared my feelings for at least some of the topics |
| 22:03 | <annevk> | I thought I'd volunteer for minuting this time so we wouldn't get the fallout that was there last week |
| 22:03 | <annevk> | (so far so good) |
| 22:04 | Hixie | wonders why this xslt thread is continuing now that the issue has been resolved |
| 22:05 | <Hixie> | why can't the people using libraries like java just output "<!DOCTYPE HTML>" and then use the serialiser without a doctype? |
| 22:05 | <Hixie> | or output whatever DOCTYPE they want and then just change it using a one line regexp? |
| 22:05 | <annevk> | "wc" |
| 22:05 | <Hixie> | or output XML and use one of the several convertors to convert the XML to HTML5? |
| 22:05 | <Hixie> | annevk: ? |
| 22:06 | <annevk> | (wc being wrong channel) |
| 22:06 | <Lachy> | Hixie, I don't know. That's what I've been saying all along |
| 22:06 | <annevk> | hard to find XSLT fans around here |
| 22:07 | <Dashiva> | It's probably the usual problem fragmentation where three people have three different problems they want solved, and every time one solution is proposed it is rejected as not solving a different problem |
| 22:07 | <annevk> | anyway, fragment tests: 4 engines, all different |
| 22:08 | <Lachy> | If there's one thing the XSLT thread has proven, it's that XSLT is not a suitable system to use for serialising HTML at all and I really don't understand why people insist on being able to use it for that at all |
| 22:13 | <annevk> | -Future of HTML, XML, etc. See Tim's talk to April 2008 AC meeting. Could be worthy of 1/2 day of discussion in several sessions (Steve) |
| 22:13 | <annevk> | -HTML spec management (Arun volunteered to moderate) |
| 22:13 | <annevk> | --http://www.w3.org/2008/10/TPAC/TPDay-Agenda.html |
| 22:17 | <annevk> | in other news: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Sep/att-0007/2008-09-03.html#topic7 |
| 22:37 | <Philip`> | Konqueror says B on all eight of those tests |
| 22:37 | <Philip`> | (v3.5.9) |
| 22:38 | <annevk> | that makes 5, I think |
| 22:38 | <Philip`> | It converts 001.htm#? into 001.htm?# and then the empty fragment identifier matches the B div |
| 22:39 | <annevk> | oh? wow |
| 22:39 | <annevk> | maybe I shouldn't have assumed correct URL parsing |
| 22:40 | <Philip`> | WebKit makes 001.htm# show B too |
| 22:41 | <Philip`> | (Maybe it's just matching the first element with any name?) |
| 22:54 | <annevk> | hmm, just # should show the top of the document in theory |
| 22:55 | <Dashiva> | On the other hand, a *good* teacher would teach not to edit directly, |
| 22:55 | <Dashiva> | but to use a proper set of tools. For instance, editing in XHTML, and |
| 22:55 | <Dashiva> | then serializing to text/html. |
| 22:55 | <Dashiva> | ... with XLST? |
| 23:24 | <Philip`> | Hixie: What do you expect IE to do with a text/plain movie file? |
| 23:25 | <Philip`> | Some version of IE6 (in Wine) gives a file download box; IE8 seems to display it as plain text, regardless of nosniff |
| 23:28 | <Hixie> | Philip`: display a download dialog, as per http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#content-type1 |
| 23:30 | <Philip`> | Hixie: Ah |
| 23:31 | <Hixie> | well you can add http://wiki.opensocial-templates.org/index.php?title=OpenSocial_Data_Pipelining to the list of pages showing misunderstanding of namespaces |
| 23:31 | <Hixie> | there's a prefix used without even a declaration |
| 23:31 | <Philip`> | Hixie: I do get a download dialog if the file is served as application/octet-stream or foo/bar etc, but it's just shown as text if it's text/plain |
| 23:31 | <Hixie> | (s/you/we/) |
| 23:31 | <Hixie> | Philip`: wow |
| 23:31 | <Hixie> | Philip`: that's surprising |
| 23:33 | <Hixie> | wow in fact it's intentional: |
| 23:33 | <Hixie> | http://wiki.opensocial-templates.org/index.php?title=OpenSocial_Markup |
| 23:33 | <Hixie> | opensocial totally calls prefixes "namespaces" |
| 23:33 | <Hixie> | that's funny |
| 23:33 | <Hixie> | you can't process opensocial using an xml namespace-aware parser |
| 23:33 | <Philip`> | Better be careful not to tell Microsoft that they're not sniffing videos, in case it's a bug and they fix it |
| 23:34 | <Philip`> | XML Namespace-aware parser? Is that like a really fancy type of regexp? |
| 23:35 | <Philip`> | Their <os:PeopleSelector> example seems to forget the > on the <form> element |
| 23:35 | <Philip`> | so I guess they haven't tested this incredibly carefully |
| 23:35 | <Hixie> | heh |
| 23:35 | <Hixie> | it's deployed, as i understand it |
| 23:37 | <Philip`> | How does the deployed implementation work? Given that they've seemingly got a properly namespaced schema, it might just be the spec writer didn't understand what was going on |
| 23:37 | <Hixie> | dunno |
| 23:46 | Philip` | discovers that Chrome's canvas is a bit buggy |
| 23:47 | <Philip`> | When I walk up to the walls in Canvex, they go all stripey-black :-( |
| 23:47 | <Philip`> | (Also it does ugly upscaling of images) |
| 23:47 | <Philip`> | (But at least it's pretty fast) |
| 23:48 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: validating this: <!DOCTYPE html><title></title><dl><dt></dt><dd><code></dd></dl> |
| 23:48 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: results in a message that talks about a "p" end tag |
| 23:49 | <annevk> | heh, prolly c&p |