| 09:24 | <jgraham> | ". They have clearly told us several times that the reason they use our products is to view pages on the web" heh |
| 09:34 | <erlehmann> | jgraham, wat? |
| 09:35 | <hsivonen> | erlehmann: see sicking's email to public-html |
| 09:47 | <jgraham> | BenMillard: I have some semi-working code for the HTML5 table header lgorithm but I won't get to finish it before Wednesday at the earliest |
| 09:48 | <BenMillard> | jgraham, that's OK. Don't bust a gut over it. :) |
| 09:48 | <jgraham> | No guts will be busted |
| 09:48 | <BenMillard> | lol |
| 11:19 | <gsnedders> | MikeSmith's doc breaks ISO 2145! |
| 11:20 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: does ISO 2145 have two interoperable implementations? |
| 11:20 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: LaTeX, MediaWiki, and Anolis at least |
| 11:22 | <Philip`> | I think you should be much more concerned that it breaks XHTML 1.0, rather than a boring numbering spec that nobody cares about :-p |
| 11:23 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: Nobody is an exaggeration. We have at least one case of a person caring. |
| 11:23 | <Philip`> | But he's a nobody :-p |
| 11:23 | <gsnedders> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2005JulSep/0003.html |
| 11:24 | hsivonen | wonders how long will it take for someone to complain about the browser-relatedness of the default style sheet bits |
| 11:27 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: is ISO 2145 the same for all locales? |
| 11:27 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: Yes |
| 11:28 | <hsivonen> | what a great opportunity for a country who wants to feel important to deviate from the standard |
| 11:36 | Philip` | notes that Markus Kuhn seems to be quite unhappy with the US's deviation from the standard A4-style paper sizes |
| 11:39 | <hsivonen> | I'd take the decimal separator and spelling from the U.S. but I'd take paper sizes and electricity sockets from Germany |
| 11:40 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: ISO 216 paper sizes, not A4-style |
| 11:40 | gsnedders | ducks |
| 11:40 | <hsivonen> | (seriously, the EU should do something about British/Irish and Italian electricity sockets) |
| 11:40 | <takkaria> | I have a suspicion gsnedders has most of the ISO specs in his bedroom. :) |
| 11:41 | <gsnedders> | takkaria: I'm not rich enough :P |
| 11:41 | <takkaria> | hsivonen: aren't the european sockets only two-pronged? |
| 11:41 | <gsnedders> | takkaria: No |
| 11:41 | <gsnedders> | Well, depends where |
| 11:41 | <gsnedders> | Some earted sorkets are three; most are two |
| 11:41 | gsnedders | can't type |
| 11:42 | <hsivonen> | takkaria: no. Both the German and French sockets have 3-wire extensions and the common plug design fits both French and German 3-wire sockets |
| 11:42 | <takkaria> | sounds useful |
| 11:42 | <takkaria> | otoh, I don't see that the EU can do anything about the UK's sockets now really |
| 11:43 | <hsivonen> | The unearthed plug on my magsafe charger fits pretty much any EU socket except British/Irish |
| 11:43 | <hsivonen> | the earthed plug doesn't fit into Italian sockets |
| 11:43 | Philip` | has a Danish desk lamp, which has a two-pronged plug, but it fits fine in a three-prong socket if he uses another plug to temporarily stick into the plug's earth socket to open up the other two holes, and he hopes that's not too dangerous a thing to do |
| 11:44 | <takkaria> | heh, I have done that before |
| 11:44 | <hsivonen> | the kind of unearthed plug that fits into Italian sockets can be crammed onto a British one, too, but not well |
| 11:44 | <takkaria> | what with the UK generally being a bit Eurosceptic, the general public would get very pissed off with any attempt to change plug sockets |
| 11:46 | <gsnedders> | BS 1363 is also widely regarded as safer |
| 11:46 | <Philip`> | How would it be possible to migrate the plug/socket format without suddenly breaking backward compatibility and forcing everyone to buy dozens of adapter thingies? |
| 11:46 | <hsivonen> | I'm not so concerned about using adapters when traveling in Britain/Ireland. What bothers me is the waste of all the UK-style cords that I've received just in case in various hardware packages |
| 11:47 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: I think it should be possible to construct a socket that has the UK and German earthing features |
| 11:49 | <gsnedders> | The problem is fitting circular and rectangular plugs in |
| 11:55 | <gsnedders> | BS 546 wouldn't have that problem, but is only used in lighting applications in the UK now :P |
| 12:07 | <gsnedders> | Also, my understanding is the main issue is most British houses use 30A ring circuits, and thus the plugs really need to be fused |
| 12:09 | <Philip`> | We should just move to a wireless power infrastructure |
| 12:09 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: is there a fuse in the *plug*?? |
| 12:10 | <Philip`> | hsivonen: Yes, like in http://www.leadsdirect.co.uk/images/technical/uk%20mains%20plug%20wiring.png |
| 12:11 | <hsivonen> | wow. that's a design choice I didn't think about at all |
| 12:12 | <Philip`> | Where else would you put the fuses? :-) |
| 12:13 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: at the point where the apartment's wiring connects to the building wiring |
| 12:14 | <Philip`> | Ah |
| 12:16 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: That's the case with BS 546, which is why they are used in theatres a lot |
| 12:16 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: If you have a fuse inaccessible on a lighting rig… |
| 12:17 | <Philip`> | I suppose that's less sensitive (and therefore less safe?) than having a fuse in each plug |
| 12:17 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: It's just as safe |
| 12:17 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: It's the same amperage as in the socket |
| 12:18 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: There's a separate wire from the connector box to each plug |
| 12:18 | <takkaria> | hsivonen: wikipedia has some history of why it was put in the plug |
| 12:19 | <gsnedders> | High amperage ring circuits to lose less copper post-war |
| 12:19 | <gsnedders> | s/lose/use/ |
| 12:19 | <takkaria> | that could be a headline |
| 12:19 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: my apartment has 6 fuses: one for stove, two for lighting and 3 for regular sockets |
| 12:20 | <Philip`> | If I have a 3A fuse in the plug for some device that usually uses 2A, and then that device gets a bit shorted or something so that it starts drawing as much current as a kettle, then it'd be nice for it to blow the fuse rather than to happily pass through a 13A fuse that's installed miles away in some cupboard where I don't know what device is connected to what socket |
| 12:20 | <hsivonen> | and I have more than 3 regular sockets |
| 12:20 | <hsivonen> | so if a fuse burns, several devices lose power |
| 12:21 | <gsnedders> | And the plug is less than half the amperage of the ring circuit, so for safety reasons that it has to be in the plug/socket. Having it in the plud allows smaller fuses in low power devices |
| 12:21 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: But do several sockets just share 16A? |
| 12:22 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: yes |
| 12:22 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: That's not the case in the UK so much |
| 12:24 | <Philip`> | gsnedders: So we can blame the Nazis for our electric socket design? |
| 12:24 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: In part :P |
| 12:24 | <Philip`> | They're a soft target, so I'm happy to wholly blame them |
| 12:26 | gsnedders | has no idea what the wiring like in this Edwardian house is like |
| 12:26 | <gsnedders> | It has had several systems in it |
| 12:28 | <gsnedders> | We have BS 546 plugs still |
| 12:28 | <gsnedders> | Still live, too |
| 12:30 | <hsivonen> | Ah. Wikipedia confirms my suspicion of Denmark not being a Nordic team player when it comes to electricity sockets |
| 12:38 | Philip` | sees someone complaining about the limited range of fonts in Google Docs, and supposes that's a good opportunity for using downloadable fonts so it's not limited to the intersection of what all users have installed by default |
| 12:48 | <takkaria> | uploadable fonts would be useful too |
| 12:55 | <Philip`> | Hmm, can you upload fonts from web browsers? |
| 12:56 | <Philip`> | Windows Explorer handles its fonts directory really weirdly and seems to try to prevent you from ever seeing that there's actual files in there |
| 13:00 | <takkaria> | you probably could |
| 13:00 | <takkaria> | just browse to c:\windows\fonts or wherever, I would have thought it would let you select font files that wya |
| 13:03 | <Philip`> | But that's a magic folder |
| 13:03 | <hsivonen> | does IE allow EOT fonts for contenteditable parts of HTML? |
| 13:04 | <Philip`> | (I'm not sure quite how magic it is, though) |
| 13:09 | <yecril71> | If any equivalence between mouse position and sound balance |
| 13:09 | <yecril71> | for the blind should be invented, |
| 13:10 | <yecril71> | it should be invented by the operating system GUI |
| 13:10 | <yecril71> | or an assistive technology add-on. |
| 13:10 | <yecril71> | HTML has nothing to do with that. |
| 13:15 | <takkaria> | ever thought of publishing a book of philosophical remarks on HTML? :) |
| 13:19 | <yecril71> | Never in my life. |
| 13:20 | <yecril71> | HTML is a very practical thing to me. |
| 13:20 | <yecril71> | That is, since Yucca explained to me not to expect too much. |
| 13:27 | <hsivonen> | what's Yucca working on these days? |
| 13:35 | <yecril71> | I have seen his post to www-html quite recently. |
| 18:09 | <hsivonen> | I'm aware of problems wih html5.validator.nu. validator.nu works. sorry about the inconvenience. I'll fix. |
| 18:42 | <hsivonen> | html5.validator.nu is back up |
| 18:42 | <hsivonen> | sorry about the outage |
| 18:51 | gsnedders | wonders where he could get a job for three months next summer |
| 18:54 | <jcranmer> | intern for some company |
| 18:55 | <wilhelm> | gsnedders: http://www.opera.com/company/jobs/opening.dml?id=211 |
| 18:55 | <Philip`> | Your local supermarket might have some vacancies |
| 18:56 | <gsnedders> | wilhelm: "Enrollment in a 3-5 year university program, or completing such a program in 2009." — not me |
| 18:57 | <hsivonen> | looks like the AI meme is continuing: http://www.cynicalturtle.net/kame/index.php/2008/11/14/487-liens-du-14-11-2008 |
| 18:57 | <jcranmer> | gsnedders: ask politely? |
| 18:57 | <gsnedders> | wilhelm: And May is too soon. My last exam is first Friday of June |
| 18:57 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: That won't pay so well :P |
| 18:58 | <jcranmer> | GSoC? |
| 18:58 | <hsivonen> | does GSoC not require university enrollment? |
| 18:58 | <jmb> | not strictly, no |
| 18:58 | <gsnedders> | jcranmer: see hsivonen, and I'll be < 18 |
| 18:59 | <wilhelm> | gsnedders: If it looks interesting, apply anyway. I didn't fulfil the formal requirements when I applied. |
| 18:59 | <jmb> | the <18 thing may be more of an issue there |
| 18:59 | <jcranmer> | starts May 26 |
| 18:59 | <jcranmer> | too early |
| 19:00 | <gsnedders> | I know someone who tried to get exempt from that, as he was 17 at the application deadline but was 18 at the start of the time |
| 19:00 | <gsnedders> | He didn't get exempted. |
| 19:01 | <jcranmer> | Yes. You must be 18 years of age or older by April 14, 2008 to be eligible to participate in Google Summer of Code in 2008. |
| 19:01 | gsnedders | will be 18 on 20100420 |
| 19:01 | <jcranmer> | trying to get something under 18 is a tad difficult |
| 19:01 | <Philip`> | You could lie about your age |
| 19:02 | <jcranmer> | any government-based summer internships? |
| 19:02 | <jcranmer> | I did a SEAP program (through the U.S. Navy) before my junior year |
| 19:02 | <gsnedders> | jcranmer: In Scotland age of majority is 16 :P |
| 19:03 | <gsnedders> | anyhow, supper |
| 19:18 | <takkaria> | wilhelm: hmm, that's an interesting link, thanks. :) |
| 19:25 | <wilhelm> | (c: |
| 19:58 | <Hixie> | Philip`: you can make magic folders non-magic by deleting the hidden file in them that makes them magic |
| 19:58 | <Hixie> | something .ini iirc |
| 20:04 | <gavin> | desktop.ini |
| 20:50 | Philip` | wonders if someone should tell bz that arguing with Rob Burns is probably not going to be very productive |
| 23:29 | <Hixie> | http://www.w3.org/mid/5AB52079-5CDC-4AA5-BD60-458A6A8ACD0E⊙gc |
| 23:29 | <Hixie> | i really have no idea what to make of that |
| 23:31 | <Philip`> | You could print it out and make a paper plane of it |
