| 00:00 | <Lachy> | BenMillard: "... So you could add an extra layer of heuristics to disambiguate those cases...but then there's another layer you could add, and another...ad infinitum" "ESPN uses <td class> ... how much heuristics do you want?" |
| 00:02 | <Lachy> | hmm, maybe that's the continuum fallacy, not slippery slope http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_fallacy |
| 00:03 | <|tbb|> | anyone familar with this event-source thing? |
| 00:03 | <Lachy> | yes |
| 00:03 | <|tbb|> | what im trying to do is create an offline app, that loads serval stuff when it becomes online |
| 00:04 | <|tbb|> | ive found out that thing with the manifest file where you can define whats from cache and whats from network |
| 00:05 | <|tbb|> | but i dont know how to read that stuff, or better i dont know how the sourcefile should look like |
| 00:05 | <|tbb|> | for example <event-source src="onlinesource.php"> |
| 00:06 | <|tbb|> | how can i read and output that file |
| 00:06 | <Lachy> | I don't understand, you seem to be confusing offline webapps with event-source, which are 2 different things |
| 00:09 | <|tbb|> | maybe point 3 descripes it better -> http://www.browseking.com/cgi-bin/nph-bk1.pl/010110A/http/www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-offline-webapps-20080530/ |
| 00:10 | <Lachy> | what is browseking.com and why are you proxying the spec through that server? |
| 00:11 | <|tbb|> | found this url through google while searching for a solution, sorry |
| 00:11 | <Lachy> | this is a more up to date version http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/offline.html#offline |
| 00:11 | <BenMillard> | Lachy, so it was the jump from <td><b> to <td class>, then? |
| 00:11 | <Lachy> | yes |
| 00:12 | <BenMillard> | ok, that makes sense |
| 00:12 | <|tbb|> | ive pasted the content -> http://pastebin.ca/1272831 |
| 00:15 | <Lachy> | ah, that's just an example showing what the different sections of the manifest file do |
| 00:16 | <|tbb|> | that manifest file works for me, but i dont know how to integrate an network(online) file into my cached site |
| 00:17 | <Lachy> | the eventsource element (previously known as "event-source") allows you to send events to the client from the server. See http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-eventsource-element |
| 00:18 | <Lachy> | basically, the client creates a persistent connection with the server and the server can send events to the client through that connection. Then the scripts in the page can listen for those events as they're fired on the eventsource element |
| 00:19 | <|tbb|> | oh, like a webservice |
| 00:20 | <Lachy> | this section describes the format for the events http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#server-sent-events |
| 00:21 | <BenMillard> | Lachy, the "can of worms" criticism of "add extra heuristics until <td><b> works" is valid before jumping to <td class>, though? |
| 00:22 | BenMillard | is learning logic today. |
| 00:23 | <Lachy> | I think your argument would have been valid by pointing out that there are so many other cases that would give false positives and false negatives, that the simple solution I proposed wouldn't be very effective. |
| 00:24 | <BenMillard> | Lachy, yeah that's what I was trying to say. :) |
| 00:24 | <Lachy> | ok, fair enough |
| 00:26 | <BenMillard> | Lachy, is characterising that as "it opens a can of worms which is difficult to close" valid? |
| 00:27 | <|tbb|> | lachy, the ticker.php which is descriped in that server-sent example, how does this file look like |
| 00:27 | <BenMillard> | (that section will include a link to these logs, I'm just figuring out a short way to describe it) |
| 00:27 | <Lachy> | BenMillard, I don't know. possibly. |
| 00:28 | <Lachy> | |tbb|, http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#parsing-an-event-stream |
| 00:29 | <Lachy> | ticker.php would need to have logic in it that makes the server maintain a persistent connection, and then each event the server sends would need to be in that format |
| 00:31 | <|tbb|> | how can i set the mime type of the ticker, is that correct-> header("Content-Type: text/event-stream"); |
| 00:31 | <Lachy> | for PHP, yes |
| 00:31 | <Lachy> | I don't know how to make PHP maintain a persistent connection though |
| 00:33 | <|tbb|> | for me it where enough, to send the content of the ticker.php once |
| 00:33 | <|tbb|> | maybe im thinking completly wrong |
| 00:33 | <|tbb|> | for what i want to do |
| 00:34 | <Lachy> | I'm not sure what you're trying to do though. Why are you using server sent events for? |
| 00:34 | <Lachy> | s/Why are/What are/ |
| 00:34 | <Philip`> | If you just want to download the immediate output of that script, and aren't doing any kind of streaming, it sounds like you could just use XMLHttpRequest instead |
| 00:36 | <Lachy> | |tbb|, read http://labs.opera.com/news/2006/09/01/ |
| 00:36 | <Lachy> | that's based on an older version of the spec, which has since changed, but it will give you a better understanding of what it does and how it works |
| 01:04 | <|tbb|> | Lachy: ive found an php example which should sent the server-time each 3 secs, http://my.opera.com/WebApplications/blog/index.dml/tag/server-sent%20events |
| 01:06 | <|tbb|> | ive changed the sented data to -> data: YHOO data: -2 data: 10 to use it with the example in whatwg example but nothing happends, any idea? oh btw, ive changed the header also to text/event-stream |
| 01:07 | <Lachy> | which browser are you using? |
| 01:07 | <|tbb|> | safari (iphone) |
| 01:07 | <Lachy> | that doesn't implement it yet |
| 01:08 | <Lachy> | if you want to experiment with it, use Opera, but you have to use the old MIME type because that's what has been implemented |
| 01:11 | <|tbb|> | lachy, sorry because ive asked again, are you sure that the latest safari iphone os fw.2.2 doesnt support it? |
| 01:12 | <Lachy> | yes, I'm sure |
| 01:12 | <olliej> | Lachy: what are we talking about? |
| 01:12 | <Lachy> | server sent events |
| 01:12 | <olliej> | ah |
| 01:12 | olliej | isn't sure if those are supported in webkit trunk |
| 01:14 | <Lachy> | http://www.google.com/search?q=Server-sent+events+webkit returns some discussions about reviewing patches to implement it |
| 01:14 | <Lachy> | first result: https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-reviews/2007-September/019931.html |
| 01:14 | <Lachy> | so it looks like there was an implementation at least started |
| 01:15 | <Lachy> | https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14997 still marked NEW |
| 01:20 | <ajnewbold> | gsnedders: *poke* |
| 01:20 | <Hixie> | http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E...%3Cscript%3C%2Fscript%3E%3Cx%3E%3C%2Fx%3E%3Cselect%3E%3Cscript%3C%2Fscript%3E%3Cx%3E%3C%2Fx%3E%3Coptgroup%3E%3Cscript%3C%2Fscript%3E%3Cx%3E%3C%2Fx%3E%3Coption%3E%3Cscript%3C%2Fscript%3E%3Cx%3E%3C%2Fx%3E |
| 01:20 | <Hixie> | sigh |
| 01:20 | Hixie | mumbles something about <script> being annoying |
| 01:20 | <ajnewbold> | cool, <x> |
| 01:20 | <ajnewbold> | is that a real element? |
| 01:21 | ajnewbold | has been out of touch with web stuff for too long now :( |
| 01:21 | <Lachy> | ajnewbold, no |
| 01:21 | <ajnewbold> | darn |
| 01:21 | <ajnewbold> | <x> would make for a pretty cool element, I think |
| 01:22 | <Lachy> | it used to be. But it was renamed, several times and finally dropped |
| 01:22 | <ajnewbold> | <x>spot</x> |
| 01:22 | <ajnewbold> | oh. |
| 01:22 | <Lachy> | I can't remember what it was for though |
| 01:23 | <Hixie> | it's <i> now |
| 01:23 | <Lachy> | http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2006-October/007481.html |
| 01:24 | <ajnewbold> | I see |
| 01:26 | <Hixie> | http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E...%3Cscript%3E%3C%2Fscript%3E%3Cx%3E%3C%2Fx%3E%3Ctable%3E%3Cscript%3E%3C%2Fscript%3E%3Cx%3E%3C%2Fx%3E%3Ctbody%3E%3Cscript%3E%3C%2Fscript%3E%3Cx%3E%3C%2Fx%3E%3Ctr%3E%3Cscript%3E%3C%2Fscript%3E%3Cx%3E%3C%2Fx%3E%3Ctd%3E%3Cscript%3E%3C%2Fscript%3E%3Cx%3E%3C%2Fx%3E is even worse |
| 01:26 | <Hixie> | i hate browsers |
| 01:28 | <Lachy> | heh |
| 01:28 | <Hixie> | ok no really, wtf is IE8 doing with http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E...%3Cscript%3E%3C%2Fscript%3E%3Cx%3E%3Cb%3Ea%3C%2Fb%3E%3C%2Fx%3E%3Ctable%3E%3Cscript%3E%3C%2Fscript%3E%3Cx%3E%3Cb%3Ea%3C%2Fb%3E%3C%2Fx%3E |
| 01:29 | <Lachy> | I suppose keeping <script> in place, instead of moving it, is necessary to deal with document.write() weirdness |
| 01:30 | <Lachy> | e.g. <table><script>document.write("<tr>...")</script>...</table> |
| 01:30 | <Hixie> | yes |
| 01:31 | <Hixie> | why is there no second /X element in http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E...%3Cx%3E%3Cb%3Ea%3C%2Fb%3E%3C%2Fx%3E%3Cselect%3E%3Cx%3E%3Cb%3Ea%3C%2Fb%3E%3C%2Fx%3E%3C%2Fselect%3E in IE8?? |
| 01:32 | <Lachy> | aargh! WTF! "Internet Explorer has modified this page to prevent a potential cross-site scripting attack." |
| 01:32 | <Lachy> | how the hell do I disable that annoying "feature" |
| 01:32 | Lachy | uploads to the clipboard from a real browser first |
| 01:33 | <Philip`> | You tell the author of the site you're using to add a special header to disable the XSS protection :-) |
| 01:33 | <Hixie> | i don't ever get that message |
| 01:33 | <Hixie> | did i do something wrong? |
| 01:33 | <Philip`> | I do get it |
| 01:34 | <Hixie> | how do i get it to come up? |
| 01:34 | <Lachy> | Hixie, copy and paste that URL above into IE8 |
| 01:34 | <Lachy> | it seems to detect the <script> in the URL and thinks it's a XSS attack |
| 01:35 | <Philip`> | By visiting a URL with <script> in the query string, and <script> in the body, which makes IE8 think it's possibly XSS and so it destroys all the <script> tags in the page |
| 01:35 | <Lachy> | Philip`, what's the special header to use? |
| 01:35 | <Lachy> | I'll need to add that to html5.lachy.id.au too |
| 01:36 | <Lachy> | http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/07/02/ie8-security-part-iv-the-xss-filter.aspx |
| 01:36 | <Philip`> | http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/07/02/ie8-security-part-iv-the-xss-filter.aspx says X-XSS-Protection: 0 |
| 01:39 | <Hixie> | wow it just does s/<script>/<sc#ipt>/, that's so insane |
| 01:39 | <ajnewbold> | heh |
| 01:41 | <Hixie> | i don't get it if i go to http://ln.hixie.ch/?<script>; |
| 01:41 | <Hixie> | weird |
| 01:52 | <Lachy> | the X-XSS-Protection: 0 header seems to work |
| 01:53 | <Lachy> | but apparently using Apache's Header directive in .htaccess doesn't affect PHP scripts :-( |
| 02:03 | <Hixie> | r2500! |
| 02:05 | <Hixie> | i need to start sticking ?<script> at the end of all my URLs |
| 02:17 | Lachy | attempts to downgrade to iTunes 7.7.1, backup the keys, and then upgrade to 8.0.2 again to see if that works |
| 02:17 | <Lachy> | with requiem |
| 02:23 | <ajnewbold> | I found it interesting how html4 bitched if I had <a> right after <hr>, telling me that I had to put it in something else first |
| 02:23 | <ajnewbold> | but html5 is totally cool with it |
| 02:23 | <ajnewbold> | well, the validator is anyway |
| 02:24 | <ajnewbold> | plus, the doctype is shorter |
| 02:24 | <ajnewbold> | html5 wins every which way |
| 02:24 | <Hixie> | yeah in html5 you can put blocks in <a>s |
| 02:25 | <ajnewbold> | awesome. |
| 02:25 | <Hixie> | Lachy: doesn't the latest requiem support the latest itunes? |
| 02:26 | <ajnewbold> | Hixie: earlier today I was reading about acid3 on wikipedia |
| 02:26 | <ajnewbold> | the article mentions you quite a bit |
| 02:26 | <ajnewbold> | kind of neat to see you here |
| 02:26 | <Hixie> | makes sense, i wrote it :-P |
| 02:26 | <ajnewbold> | oh, hehe |
| 02:26 | <ajnewbold> | :) |
| 02:26 | <Hixie> | acid3, that is, not the article :-) |
| 02:26 | <ajnewbold> | ah, heh |
| 02:26 | <ajnewbold> | acid3 is pretty frigging insane |
| 02:26 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 02:27 | <ajnewbold> | I suspect acid4 will perform a lapdance or something |
| 02:27 | <Hixie> | acid4 will be more like acid2 |
| 02:27 | <Hixie> | it'll have some sort of picture |
| 02:27 | <Hixie> | probably a cat |
| 02:27 | <Hixie> | and will test primarily non-scripting things |
| 02:27 | <ajnewbold> | yay |
| 02:27 | <Hixie> | probably svg 1.1 stuff |
| 02:27 | <Hixie> | but i'll have to learn svg to do that |
| 02:27 | <Hixie> | so we'll see |
| 02:27 | <ajnewbold> | it'll be fun |
| 02:27 | <Hixie> | won't be for some time |
| 02:28 | <ajnewbold> | I know virtually nothing about svg |
| 02:28 | <ajnewbold> | except that it's amazing |
| 02:28 | <Hixie> | that's one word for it |
| 02:28 | <ajnewbold> | oh, wait, I've got it! |
| 02:28 | <ajnewbold> | acid4 could consist of this: <cat> |
| 02:28 | <ajnewbold> | first browser to correctly render that wins. |
| 02:29 | <ajnewbold> | :D |
| 02:29 | <ajnewbold> | sorry, <cat/> |
| 02:29 | <Hixie> | acid tests are based on "old" standards |
| 02:29 | <Hixie> | so we'd have to get cracking on making a Cat standard |
| 02:29 | <ajnewbold> | oh. |
| 02:29 | <ajnewbold> | good point |
| 02:31 | <Lachy> | Hixie, I want to get the 7.7.1 keys and see if using that with 1.7.4 works for me, just like it seems to continue working for you |
| 02:31 | <Hixie> | aah |
| 02:31 | <Hixie> | is 1.8 causing problems then? |
| 02:31 | Hixie | wonders why we preserve case for doctype names |
| 02:31 | <ajnewbold> | I wonder if I'll live to see an intelligent content display agent |
| 02:31 | <Lachy> | 1.8 using 8.0.1 keys doesn't decrypt content bought with 8.0.2 |
| 02:32 | <ajnewbold> | something that can take raw content, pure text or whatever, and display it accordingly |
| 02:32 | <ajnewbold> | it could generate its own navigation based purely on analysis of what links to what, not through any kind of specific declaration |
| 02:33 | <Hixie> | Lachy: ah, interesting |
| 02:39 | <Hixie> | i'm going to shoot the first person who asks for what i just did to be uppercase instead of lowercase (and who didn't read this line) |
| 02:41 | <Lachy> | Hixie, can you make what you just did uppercase instead of lowercase? |
| 02:41 | <Lachy> | :-) |
| 02:42 | Lachy | prefers lowercase for the DOCTYPE name anyway |
| 02:47 | <blooberry> | does anyone here have any experience with rss/atom syntax? |
| 02:50 | Hixie | grumbles as he re-opens IE to examine its behavior around <form></form> |
| 02:58 | <Hixie> | crap, i used the wrong annotation for the last checkin |
| 04:41 | <Lachy> | Hixie, downgrading to iTunes 7.7.1 and having it generate a new set of keys now allows me to decrypt everything bought with 8.0.2 :-) |
| 05:18 | <Hixie> | Lachy: cool |
| 07:12 | <MikeSmith> | I see a note at http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MicrosyntaxDescriptions#datetime-tz that says: |
| 07:12 | <MikeSmith> | "(This format deviates from the spec draft.)" |
| 07:12 | <MikeSmith> | anybody know why it deviates? |
| 07:31 | <roc> | MikeSmith: what's the point of "Typical default display properties" for <audio> and <video> in http://www.w3.org/html/wg/markup-spec/ ? |
| 07:31 | <Hixie> | what spec defines that + means %20 in an HTTP URI's query component? |
| 07:40 | <MikeSmith> | roc: no point except that the webkit default UA stylesheet provides CSS for them, so the build just picks that up |
| 07:42 | <roc> | So you have a script that replaces "webkit" with "vendor"? |
| 07:42 | <roc> | I think it's highly likely to confuse people |
| 07:44 | <roc> | same for form controls |
| 07:44 | <roc> | all those rules are highly UA-specific |
| 07:45 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, I realize that |
| 07:45 | <Hixie> | we need someone to actually edit a spec that defines all this stuff |
| 07:45 | <MikeSmith> | and, yeah, the script replaces "webkit" with "vendor" |
| 07:45 | <Hixie> | otherwise i'm gonna have to end up doing it and i don't wanna :-P |
| 07:46 | <MikeSmith> | if the CSS WG could produce a real-world reference default UA stylesheet, I much rather use that |
| 07:47 | <MikeSmith> | I guess I could just have the script ignore anything that's got a vendor-specific prefix in it |
| 07:47 | <roc> | the rendering of media and form controls are far from fully described by the UA stylesheet |
| 08:39 | <annevk3> | Hixie, I thought there was a reasong for not munging the DOCTYPE case, ask hsivonen |
| 08:39 | <Hixie> | he's the one who asked to munge it |
| 08:41 | <annevk3> | well then :) |
| 08:48 | <annevk3> | oh, way over 2500 revisions already |
| 09:18 | <aaronlev> | hi hsivonen |
| 09:54 | <annevk3> | hsivonen, the spec also has document.innerHTML for which it seems logical, even necessary, to create a Document object a |
| 09:55 | <annevk3> | (XMLHttpRequest currently uses the serialization algorithm of that) |
| 10:07 | <zcorpan> | annevk3: couldn't you put the document object on the stack? |
| 10:12 | <Hixie> | i thought innerHTML was the very case hsivonen was arguing that we shouldn't use a separate doc for |
| 10:17 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: document.innerHTML (as opposed to elm.innerHTML) |
| 10:17 | <Hixie> | oh |
| 10:18 | <Hixie> | really? |
| 10:18 | <Hixie> | i missed the distinction. |
| 10:18 | <Hixie> | interesting. |
| 10:26 | <annevk3> | whoa |
| 10:26 | <annevk3> | http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/ |
| 10:27 | <annevk3> | guess that means we can start dropping XML 1.1 support in Opera... |
| 10:53 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: sorry, forgot the 'c' annotation on r2524 |
| 11:06 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: why ban the empty string in placeholder? |
| 11:18 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: what would it be if not an authoring mistake? |
| 11:18 | <jgraham> | placeholder should probably be limited to have a length <= @size |
| 11:20 | <Philip`> | jgraham: Why? |
| 11:22 | <jgraham> | Philip`: Because, in theory if the control has a size attribute set you will only be able to see that many characters |
| 11:22 | <jgraham> | Having a placeholder that is wider than the number of visible characters seems odd |
| 11:22 | <Philip`> | It doesn't seem to make much sense to allow <input placeholder=wwww size=4> but not <input placeholder=iiiii size=4>, if the concern is how many characters get visibly rendered |
| 11:23 | <jgraham> | Yeah, proportional fonts suck ;) |
| 11:24 | <jgraham> | But it seems like an authouring error to put a long string in @placeholder which may not be visible in all UAs |
| 11:25 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: a placeholder :) |
| 11:25 | <Hixie> | fair enough |
| 11:25 | <Hixie> | will change |
| 11:27 | <Lachy> | Hixie, will change what? |
| 11:27 | <Hixie> | allow placeholder="" to be empty |
| 11:27 | <Lachy> | why? zcorpan's argument seemed pretty weak |
| 11:28 | <Hixie> | we allow title="" to be blank |
| 11:28 | <Hixie> | class="" to be blank |
| 11:28 | <Lachy> | oh |
| 11:28 | <Hixie> | etc |
| 11:28 | <Lachy> | ok |
| 11:32 | <jgraham> | Hixie: FWIW the definition of the size attribute seems like it is inaccurate; presumably the UA can allow the user to see more or less characters depending on CSS |
| 11:32 | <jgraham> | s/less/fewer/ |
| 11:32 | <Lachy> | Hixie, there's a bug in the update notification script on the multipage version. It still says "This specification has been updated. You are reading r2526 but the latest revision is r2527..." even after reloading |
| 11:32 | <Hixie> | jgraham: the definition has no UA normative criteria |
| 11:33 | <Hixie> | Lachy: it takes time for the multipage version to update |
| 11:33 | <Hixie> | Lachy: you probably _are_ reading r2526 |
| 11:35 | <jgraham> | Hixie: Well it is still misleading even if it is not normative |
| 11:36 | <Hixie> | i guess |
| 11:36 | <Hixie> | what dos it define then? |
| 11:36 | <Hixie> | anyway send feedback, i'm going to bed soon |
| 11:36 | <Hixie> | :-) |
| 11:38 | <jgraham> | I guess it defines the default width, in characters (dunno what that means, exactly) of the control when presented in a visual UA |
| 11:38 | <Hixie> | what's a "default width"? |
| 11:39 | <jgraham> | Oh, I assume all undefined terms will be dealt with in the rendering section ;) |
| 11:39 | <Hixie> | mmhm :-) |
| 11:49 | <|tbb|> | hi all, anyone has experience with creating offline apps? |
| 11:50 | <|tbb|> | http://www.w3.org/TR/offline-webapps |
| 12:00 | <Lachy> | Hixie, the last update to the placeholder attribute section appears in the multipage version, but the notice still appears on the page with the TOC. |
| 12:00 | <Hixie> | odd |
| 12:01 | <Hixie> | well if you can work out what the problem is, let me know and i'll fix it |
| 12:01 | <Hixie> | i'm going to bed now |
| 12:01 | <Hixie> | nn |
| 12:03 | <MikeSmith> | |tbb|: probably best to just ask a question |
| 12:04 | <|tbb|> | lachy and others, hours ago, and im still looking for a solution for my needings. maybe you can give me the special hint to get my prob solved. im trying to build and offline-webapp, so if i stay online, the browser should read particluary data from the online ressource anyway. |
| 12:07 | <|tbb|> | what i figure out is that -> var online = navigator.onLine; will tell me if im online or not but when i trying to change style of an element in case of the online or not online state it wont work, it always shows me the html source which i have stored for offline viewing |
| 12:09 | <Lachy> | I don't understand what you mean |
| 12:10 | <Lachy> | it might help if you could show us a minimised sample page illustrating what you are trying to do |
| 12:11 | <|tbb|> | im doing it right now |
| 12:16 | <annevk3> | navigator.onLine should work quite well nowadays, onoffline and ononline might not |
| 12:28 | <|tbb|> | ok, here it is |
| 12:28 | <|tbb|> | http://pastebin.com/d1918cc75 |
| 12:28 | <Dashiva> | <meta names ? |
| 12:31 | <|tbb|> | typing error but this isnt the problem it self |
| 12:33 | <Lachy> | |tbb|, you have listed myofflineapp.php in the NETWORK section of the manifest, meaning that it won't be cached. Are you sure that's what you want? |
| 12:34 | <|tbb|> | what i really like to do is, that a particluary file always load if the user is online, so i can provide updates or something |
| 12:35 | <|tbb|> | it doesnt matter if i put the myofflineapp.php in network section or not it always loads the cached one |
| 12:37 | <Lachy> | AIUI, the browser should check for an update on the server |
| 12:37 | <annevk3> | standardssuck.org is now upgraded |
| 12:37 | <Lachy> | which browsers are you testing with? |
| 12:38 | <|tbb|> | safari on iphone |
| 12:38 | <|tbb|> | fw 2.2 |
| 12:39 | <Lachy> | annevk3, there were plugins that needed upgrading too. I did that for you |
| 12:39 | <annevk3> | k |
| 12:40 | <Lachy> | are you sure that version of Safari implements offline webapps, as defined in HTML5? |
| 12:41 | <Lachy> | this page says only Chrome implements that feature via a plugin. http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Implementations_in_Web_browsers |
| 12:41 | <|tbb|> | aaaahrrrrggggg, (online=true) should mean (online==true) now it works, damnd sorry |
| 12:41 | <Lachy> | of course, that page could be out of date |
| 12:41 | <Lachy> | oh, right. I didn't notice that ;-) |
| 12:42 | <MikeSmith> | I did also hear that safari on iphone supports the offline-webapps stuff |
| 12:42 | <MikeSmith> | I think the "Save to Home Screen" feature makes use of it |
| 12:42 | <MikeSmith> | (if the app actually has a manifest specified) |
| 12:42 | <MikeSmith> | as of iphone OS 2.1 at least |
| 12:43 | <|tbb|> | MikeSmith: thats what im talking about |
| 12:43 | <Lachy> | ok, then someone should update the wiki |
| 12:48 | <|tbb|> | one more problem, like open the browser look at the page (allready online) it shows me the state online. if im deactivating wlan then, and reopen the site it says he is online, but if im reloading the page again it shows me the correct onlinestat |
| 13:00 | <|tbb|> | lachy, i wonder if the event-source thing will work also (may enabled but not announced) but im doing something wrong because i dont know much about it? |
| 13:01 | <Lachy> | |tbb|, the WebKit bug for eventsource is still marked as NEW, not FIXED, so it seems unlikely that a release version of Safari would have it |
| 13:01 | <Lachy> | btw, it's <eventsource> now, not <event-source> |
| 13:05 | <|tbb|> | ah, k. how can i write the content from anyotherfile.php into a div on my current page from javascript is that possible ? |
| 13:05 | <annevk3> | zcorpan, Hixie stated in some other e-mail that all events would get a global event handler attribute |
| 13:05 | <annevk3> | zcorpan, and do we really want to group events? readystatechange sucks balls |
| 13:14 | <zcorpan> | annevk3: not sure but i'd like to see use cases for some events |
| 13:15 | <zcorpan> | what's wrong with readystatechange? |
| 13:21 | <annevk3> | that you need to check all kinds of other things to know what's going on rather than being able to directly trigger something based on the event name |
| 13:22 | <annevk3> | you basically need some conditional logic inside the event; it's much nicer if that's handled by different event names instead |
| 13:22 | <annevk3> | (e.g. the difference between a successful load and an aborted one) |
| 13:25 | <zcorpan> | ok |
| 15:35 | <annevk3> | http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2008/12/02/google-closes-the-web-in-korea :/ |
| 16:42 | <annevk3> | is there an easy .htaccess line to kill the connection if someone uses a certain browser? |
| 16:44 | <annevk3> | or a more friendly heuristic, if the URI contains "&" |
| 16:54 | <annevk3> | SetEnvIf Request_URI "&" evil |
| 16:54 | <annevk3> | Deny from evil |
| 16:54 | <annevk3> | ? |
| 16:56 | <annevk3> | Deny from env=evil |
| 17:00 | <annevk3> | hmm, that doesn't work |
| 17:02 | <svl> | SetEnvIf Request_URI "&" evil=1 |
| 17:03 | <svl> | ? |
| 17:03 | <annevk3> | nope |
| 17:03 | <annevk3> | the documentation is crap |
| 17:04 | <svl> | oh yeah, looks like that's redundant. You have <FilesMatch "(.*)"> \n Order Allow,Deny \n Allow from all \n Deny from env=evil \n </FilesMatch> |
| 17:05 | <svl> | (specifically the order bit?) |
| 17:05 | <annevk3> | currently no |
| 17:05 | <annevk3> | can they appear inside <FilesMatch? |
| 17:06 | <svl> | that's the way I have it - which works for me. :) |
| 17:07 | <svl> | (but the problem with .htaccess is that there's so many other things setting up things inside it that there's a high chance of conflicts...) |
| 17:07 | <svl> | well, _a_ problem. |
| 17:07 | <annevk3> | no, doesn't work |
| 17:07 | <annevk3> | there's almost nothing configured here |
| 17:08 | <svl> | pastebin the entire .htaccess file? |
| 17:08 | <svl> | wfm: http://juima.org/stuff/test&test |
| 17:09 | <annevk3> | http://html5.org/x.htaccess |
| 17:11 | <svl> | iirc the latter option overrides the former, hence allow,deny instead of deny,allow (blaklisting versus whitelisting) |
| 17:12 | <annevk3> | i tried that too |
| 17:12 | <annevk3> | will try again |
| 17:12 | <svl> | what I have is http://pastebin.com/d7a7644ea |
| 17:13 | <Philip`> | Maybe mod_rewrite would be easier |
| 17:13 | <svl> | "Deny,Allow: First, all Deny directives are evaluated; if any match, the request is denied unless it also matches an Allow directive." |
| 17:14 | <svl> | that's the problem with the current version |
| 17:14 | <annevk3> | it seems that for query strings it does not work? |
| 17:14 | <annevk3> | can that be true? |
| 17:14 | <svl> | yes |
| 17:14 | <annevk3> | see e.g. http://juima.org/stuff/?test&test |
| 17:14 | <svl> | querystring isn't part of request_uri |
| 17:14 | <annevk3> | geez |
| 17:14 | <svl> | meh, should've remembered that immediately. |
| 17:14 | <svl> | yeah, that sucks |
| 17:14 | <annevk3> | do you know the variable? |
| 17:14 | svl | remembers being frustrated by it not two months ago |
| 17:15 | <svl> | iirc there isn't one, and I indeed moved to mod_rewrite as Philip` suggested. Back then it was: |
| 17:15 | <svl> | RewriteCond %{QUERY_STRING} DECLARE |
| 17:15 | <svl> | RewriteRule ^(.*) - [F] |
| 17:16 | <annevk3> | "See the RewriteCond directive of mod_rewrite for extra information on how to match your query string." sigh |
| 17:16 | <svl> | so s/DECLARE/&/ and put a RewriteEngine On above it. |
| 17:17 | <annevk3> | nice |
| 17:17 | <annevk3> | there is this bot hitting web-apps-tracker for a couple of months now and eating 15 gigabytes a month or so |
| 17:18 | <svl> | youch |
| 17:18 | <annevk3> | it apparently fetches & URIs |
| 17:23 | <annevk3> | seems to work |
| 17:23 | <Philip`> | I wish there was a nicer way to write RewriteRule when you don't actually care about the URIs |
| 17:23 | annevk3 | serving lots of 403 |
| 17:24 | <Philip`> | I suppose "RewriteRule . - [F]" is the most concise thing you can do |
| 17:24 | <svl> | The bot doesn't come from a single ip? In extreme cases I just toss them in iptables so I don't even have the apache hit. |
| 17:27 | <annevk3> | nope, lots of different IPs |
| 17:28 | <Philip`> | Whose IPs are they? |
| 17:29 | annevk3 | opens access.log again |
| 17:31 | <annevk3> | 59.173.21.194, 82.161.78.95, 62.171.194.43, 80.255.43.29, etc. |
| 17:35 | <Philip`> | Does not exist, haarlemwms.demon.nl, proxy-23.swgfl.ifl.net, does not exist |
| 17:35 | <Philip`> | Doesn't look like much of a pattern in there yet |
| 17:36 | <svl> | I've seen 62.171.194.43 legitimately browsing on my site |
| 17:36 | <svl> | (came in via google image search, loads css files and images, etc) |
| 17:37 | <annevk3> | 88.247.148.23 |
| 17:38 | <svl> | 'course, since it's a proxy... |
| 17:38 | <annevk3> | 80.90.160.97 |
| 17:38 | <annevk3> | 200.68.29.118 |
| 17:39 | <Philip`> | dsl88-247-37911.ttnet.net.tr, does not exist, mail.tucapel.cl |
| 17:39 | <annevk3> | maybe they're all proxies in some way? |
| 17:40 | <Philip`> | Maybe it's a botnet trying to DDOS the spec tracker |
| 17:42 | <hsivonen> | :-( making content-language non-conforming without changing the processing reqs seems impractical |
| 17:43 | <annevk3> | Philip`, haha, nice try Mr. Last Week! |
| 18:20 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: the date microformat deviation from spec was probably related to something that Hixie dealt with in http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2008-November/017421.html |
| 18:22 | <hsivonen> | annevk3: why would you create a new Document object for document.innerHTML instead of using the one bound to document? |
| 18:24 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: r2524 noted. thanks |
| 21:41 | <gsnedders> | I am not hopeless. I am not hopeless. I am not hopeless. I am not hopeless. |
| 21:41 | <gsnedders> | If I say it enough I'll believe it! |
| 21:55 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, if you hope that you are not hopeless then you are hopeful. :) |