| 00:43 | Hixie | ponders how to split websockets |
| 00:56 | <Hixie> | wakaba: wow, the whatpm and webhacc stuff has progressed a lot since i last looked at it |
| 00:56 | <Hixie> | wakaba: what's the status these days? is it stable enough to use? |
| 02:13 | <Hixie> | wakaba: looks like Message::Charset::Info is missing from the manakai-core tarball |
| 06:36 | <olliej> | hmm, no roc |
| 09:31 | <hsivonen> | http://twitter.com/diveintomark/statuses/1101238201 Smil 3.0 is over half the size of HTML5 |
| 09:33 | <annevk> | It's not really clear to me what we can conclude from that... |
| 09:34 | <annevk> | E.g. is it lacking detail? Is there a 100 pages devoted to different schema languages? |
| 09:34 | <annevk> | Do they use a page per namespace? :p |
| 09:34 | <hsivonen> | nothing to conclude except that it's a long spec |
| 09:36 | <annevk> | Previous versions of SMIL were too. There's a lot of stuff in there... I sort of hope we never have to implement more than the subset that is in SVG |
| 09:37 | <annevk> | and even that I wish we would not have to |
| 09:41 | hsivonen | wonders if markp is following accessibility at xiph dot org |
| 10:06 | <roc_> | SMIL is horrible |
| 10:08 | <Lachy> | hsivonen, yt? |
| 10:09 | <hsivonen> | Lachy: yes |
| 10:09 | <Lachy> | see http://validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brucelawson.co.uk%2Ftests%2Fhtml5-youtube.html |
| 10:09 | <Lachy> | The error report about the object element's missing attributes could be clearer about which attributes are required |
| 10:10 | <Lachy> | Bruce couldn't figure out why it wasn't valid and just asked me about it |
| 10:10 | <hsivonen> | Lachy: yes. still waiting for upstream to solve it :-/ |
| 10:10 | <Lachy> | ok |
| 10:10 | <hsivonen> | also, I have lots of fixed from MikeSmith pending deployment |
| 10:11 | <hsivonen> | s/fixed/fixes/ |
| 10:43 | annevk | finds https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imap5 |
| 10:52 | <zcorpan> | NAMESPACE: |
| 10:52 | <zcorpan> | Kill it after torturing it |
| 10:53 | <zcorpan> | http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/imap5/current/msg00116.html |
| 10:54 | <hsivonen> | I wonder how offering IE8 as a high-priority update goes considering that IE7 was supposed to be a high-priority update but IE6 is still out there |
| 10:56 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: since ie7 requires xp sp2 and there are users with windows pre xp sp2, i guess the ie6 users are mostly using pre xp sp2 and so will continue to be unaffected |
| 10:57 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: but most of the current ie7 users might well upgrade |
| 10:57 | <hsivonen> | isn't SP2 a high-priority update, too? |
| 10:57 | <zcorpan> | dunno |
| 10:57 | <roc> | it is |
| 10:58 | <roc> | I met a friend today who uses IE6 because it uses less memory than other browsers |
| 10:58 | <roc> | techie friend too |
| 11:01 | <hsivonen> | does XP1 still get security patches? |
| 11:01 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Well I built gecko with HTML 5 parsing and it consistently crashes at startup :) |
| 11:02 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: what platform? |
| 11:02 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: I've used Leopard on Intel and 32-bit Intrepid |
| 11:03 | <Philip`> | http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/imap5/current/msg00119.html - "During my recent job search, I was lectured that I had to get over this quaint notion that interoperability is important or even desirable. ... I have become convinced that it is hopeless to do anything in open standards beyond a general framework." |
| 11:03 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: 32-bit Intrepid |
| 11:03 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: interesting |
| 11:04 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Let me know if I can do anything useful to diagnose the issue' |
| 11:04 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: are you using a profile with non-default open tabs? |
| 11:05 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: I created a new profile. |
| 11:06 | <jgraham> | (it shows the profile manager before crashing) |
| 11:06 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: ok. It's hard to figure that out without a stack trace. |
| 11:12 | <rubys> | that's what I saw too when I used no-remote |
| 11:12 | <rubys> | and -P |
| 11:12 | <rubys> | with no options, it worked for me |
| 11:13 | <takkaria> | they're working on imap5? |
| 11:55 | <Philip`> | I also get a crash on startup after the profile manager (when running with -profilemanager) |
| 11:56 | <Philip`> | http://pastie.org/354574 |
| 11:58 | <Philip`> | and it still crashes if I just use -no-remote (and not -profilemanager) |
| 12:00 | <Philip`> | but otherwise it seems to work alright |
| 12:03 | <Philip`> | It seems incredibly slow at loading the HTML5 spec |
| 12:04 | <Philip`> | and I can see it redrawing the screen after every few words have been added to the bottom |
| 12:04 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: it probably triggers O(n^2) behavior on the CSS side |
| 12:26 | <zcorpan> | hmm... <form><div><span></form><h4> |
| 12:26 | <zcorpan> | html5 says to close the form |
| 12:27 | <zcorpan> | the top 4 browsers don't |
| 12:27 | <zcorpan> | our rendering is compatible with html5 afaict but he have to change it because it breaks sites (bug with 13 dups) |
| 12:27 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: ^ |
| 12:36 | <Hixie> | you mean the <h4> ends up in the <span>? |
| 12:37 | <Hixie> | cos the spec does do that now |
| 12:38 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: ^ |
| 12:40 | <annevk> | Hixie, how would you link window.XMLHttpRequest with a script execution context so that if you do var obj = {}; obj.XMLHttpRequest = otherwindow.XMLHttpRequest otherwindow.XMLHttpRequest is associated with its original script execution context and not the one obj is running in |
| 12:40 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: oh it does? ok then that's good and validator.nu is out of date |
| 12:41 | jgraham | guesses html5lib is also out of date |
| 12:41 | <jmb> | hubbub certainly is :) |
| 12:41 | <annevk> | Hixie, the SharedWorker IDL block uses <code> |
| 12:42 | <zcorpan> | jgraham: yep (at least the instance running at james.html5.org) |
| 12:42 | <annevk> | Hixie, showNotification is still present in Web Workers |
| 12:44 | <Hixie> | annevk: no idea, like i said though, this whole area is agoing to change radically |
| 12:44 | <Hixie> | annevk: (please file a bug about SharedWorker) |
| 12:44 | <Hixie> | (or send me a mail) |
| 12:45 | <Hixie> | time for bed |
| 12:45 | <Hixie> | nn |
| 12:46 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: Still wrong with the latest version. I must have missed that change and obviously we don't have tests for it :( |
| 13:18 | <zcorpan> | it seems that in firefox it's impossible to close the form with the above markup |
| 13:18 | <zcorpan> | and you can nest forms with <form><x></form><form> |
| 14:38 | <annevk> | heycam, does Web IDL define a way to define a prototype object, such as window.XMLHttpRequest? |
| 14:38 | <annevk> | heycam, also, does it define a way to say "interface X complements interface Y"? |
| 14:38 | <Dashiva> | Isn't that the Interface Object? |
| 14:39 | <annevk> | Dashiva, prolly true, now that we have "NoInterfaceObject"... bit confusing with Window members though |
| 14:53 | <annevk> | interface object is defined in section 4.3 of Web IDL btw |
| 14:55 | <annevk> | does DontDelete imply you cannot overwrite it? because you can do window.XMLHttpRequest = otherwindow.XMLHttpRequest in browsers |
| 14:57 | <annevk> | I guess ReadOnly would imply that, great |
| 14:58 | annevk | tries to avoid actually reading the ECMAScript spec for now |
| 14:59 | <Philip`> | annevk: DontDelete only affects [[Delete]], not anything else |
| 14:59 | <Philip`> | (as far as I can see) |
| 14:59 | <annevk> | heycam, why is "interface Dog;" present in the first example of section 3.3? |
| 14:59 | <Philip`> | "DontDelete: Attempts to delete the property will be ignored. See the description of the delete operator in section 11.4.1." |
| 15:01 | <annevk> | ta |
| 15:19 | <Philip`> | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/JSON_ARIA#Defining_the_widget - I suppose that's one way to get around the lack of comments in JSON - just make up your own syntax |
| 15:21 | <aroben> | hi everyone! |
| 15:24 | <Philip`> | Howdy |
| 15:25 | <webben> | Philip`: I suspect those aren't meant to be in the final JSON. I could be wrong. |
| 15:29 | <Dashiva> | Philip`: Comments are part of many JSON extensions, so it's probably not invented there :) |
| 15:37 | <webben> | Dashiva: Wouldn't they normally use something like // or /* */ rather than <!-- --> ? |
| 15:39 | <Dashiva> | Browsers have to support <!-- for (single-line) comments anyway |
| 16:44 | <Lachy> | hey brucel |
| 16:44 | <brucel> | hi |
| 21:58 | <webben> | cesar2: when you say "getting" to mean via the video API? |
| 21:59 | <cesar2> | webben: yeah |
| 22:00 | <webben> | cesar2: Something i've been suggesting to Hixie is that metadata in the source video should be available to the DOM API. |
| 22:00 | <webben> | cesar2: However, if you're including a video on a page, you're normally going to be able to extract that info and provide it to your page manually anyhow. |
| 22:01 | <cesar2> | webben: true. But I figure that it could be useful for extension developers for firefox |
| 22:02 | <webben> | hmm interesting point |
| 22:03 | <webben> | cesar2: Perhaps put together some use-cases and write to WHATWG mailing list with that suggestion? http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/FAQ#Is_there_a_process_for_adding_new_features_to_the_spec.3F |
| 22:03 | <webben> | cesar2: I suspect Hixie's likely to treat it as a version 2 feature ... but no harm in raising the issue early. |
| 22:03 | <cesar2> | webben: I'll think about it some more. thanks for pointing to the resource |
| 22:03 | <webben> | np :)] |
| 22:04 | <gsnedders> | I have some vague recollection of that being mentioned at TPAC |
| 22:04 | <gsnedders> | I also have a vague recollection of Hixie thinking that should be added |
| 23:14 | <Hixie> | cesar2, webben: exposing metadata from the video is already on the v2 list |
| 23:15 | <cesar2> | what is the v2 list? |
| 23:21 | <Hixie> | the comment in the spec near the video section that starts "v2 features:" or some such |
| 23:22 | <Hixie> | every now and then someone tries to upload gigabyte-sized files to my data url kitchen |
| 23:22 | <Hixie> | qtf |
| 23:22 | <Hixie> | wtf even |
| 23:47 | <hallvors> | think I submitted a 1mb image to the data-url maker at some point (by mistake) :-p |
| 23:49 | <Hixie> | 1mb is fine |
| 23:49 | <Hixie> | 1gb not so much |
| 23:49 | Hixie | imposses a 100mb limit |
| 23:49 | <Hixie> | imposes |
| 23:53 | <BenMillard> | annevk, "Ideal" entry on your blog has this after the doctype: <!-- last modified Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:00:00 --> |
| 23:53 | <takkaria> | fubky |
| 23:53 | <takkaria> | funky, even |