| 00:00 | <Hixie> | apparently |
| 00:00 | <Hixie> | i think i'll wait for adam to write the i-d though |
| 00:00 | <annevk> | there will be an ID? ok |
| 00:01 | <annevk> | guess he can define authoring requirements and such then, neat-o |
| 00:01 | <Hixie> | i hope so |
| 00:01 | <Hixie> | gonna be pretty short, i expect |
| 00:01 | <annevk> | the header is already registered fwiw, but I guess doing it separately from both HTML5 and CORS is fine |
| 00:01 | <Hixie> | it's CORS now? |
| 00:02 | <annevk> | pretty much |
| 00:02 | <Hixie> | cool |
| 00:02 | <Hixie> | remind me to update xbl next year or so |
| 00:02 | <Hixie> | :-) |
| 00:02 | <annevk> | hehe |
| 00:03 | <annevk> | hopefully xbl has some implementor traction by then |
| 00:03 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 00:03 | <Hixie> | i've heard louder rumblings than usual recently |
| 00:03 | <Hixie> | so we'll see |
| 00:04 | <Hixie> | i want people to implement type=date and type=color |
| 00:04 | <Hixie> | in multiple browsers |
| 00:04 | <Hixie> | that would get us a lot of traction i think |
| 00:04 | <annevk> | that'd be cool |
| 00:04 | <Hixie> | (from the average author) |
| 00:04 | <Hixie> | i mean, i'd love to blog about html5 and say why it's a great idea and all, but it'll sound hollow until we have something concrete that authors can use widely |
| 00:24 | <Lachy> | I found the videos that taught me about complex numbers http://www.dimensions-math.org/Dim_download2_E.htm (chapters 5 and 6) |
| 01:32 | olliej | is honestly not sure what to make of the latest whatwg mailing |
| 01:33 | olliej | has drafted multiple replies and decided they're all too far at the "what the hell are you talking about" end of the spectrum |
| 01:40 | <Lachy> | olliej, which mail are you talking about? |
| 01:40 | <olliej> | oh |
| 01:40 | <olliej> | web apps wg list |
| 01:41 | <Lachy> | ah, do you mean "[Web Workers API] Data synchronization" |
| 01:41 | <olliej> | yup |
| 08:13 | Hixie | collects interesting data for how to handle <a href="javascript:'...'" target=iframe> for various cases like same-origin, cross-origin, same-browsing-context, child browsing context, etc |
| 09:27 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: "Advanced maths"? Even in my sister's day (i.e., before yours), it was "further maths". |
| 10:05 | <annevk> | hmm, afaict most on* attributes start out as undefined in most browsers |
| 10:19 | <hendry> | annevk: why did you "dropped the RSS feed in favor of Atom. If someone can increase the acceptance of rel="feed" in user agents that would be much appreciated as it would save me thirty-three characters on several pages. No, I donât have Googleâs bandwidth bill, but readability counts. |
| 10:19 | <hendry> | 16th January 2009 |
| 10:19 | <hendry> | annevk: oh crap copy and paste :) |
| 10:20 | <hendry> | annevk: was thinking Atom is draconian right? so why use it |
| 10:21 | <annevk> | RSS is too |
| 10:21 | <annevk> | but no feed reader is so in practice it doesn't matter much |
| 10:22 | <hendry> | annevk: i noticed when i had an error in my atom feed, it wouldn't render in firefox |
| 10:22 | <hendry> | annevk: though an error in rss rendered |
| 10:22 | <hendry> | hence i stopped using atom |
| 10:22 | <annevk> | ok |
| 10:22 | <annevk> | my RSS feed sucks though, it's not full text |
| 10:25 | <annevk> | I mean sucked, it's gone now |
| 10:25 | <annevk> | to a nice place Ubuntu calls trash:/// |
| 10:25 | <hendry> | urgh |
| 10:25 | <gsnedders> | hendry: Fx uses the same XML parser for both |
| 10:26 | <hendry> | gsnedders: i could be wrong, i didn't really investigate |
| 10:26 | <gsnedders> | So the same error should cause a fatal XML error in both |
| 10:27 | <gsnedders> | annevk: And SP supports @rel=ffed' :P |
| 10:27 | <gsnedders> | *feed |
| 10:29 | <Philip`> | hendry: Couldn't you have just fixed the error in your Atom feed? :-) |
| 10:33 | <hendry> | Philip`: i just switched to RSS and things started working. Hence I was thinking why Atom? :) |
| 10:33 | <annevk> | for a moment I thought http://hixie.ch/specs/hsf/hsf might of help when it is done, but it uses XHTML, go figure |
| 10:33 | <annevk> | might be of help* geez |
| 10:33 | <gsnedders> | It's what became hAtom |
| 10:33 | <gsnedders> | Last-Modified: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 12:48:48 GMT |
| 10:34 | <gsnedders> | However, that has even less support in normal feed readers than @rel='feed'. |
| 10:34 | <annevk> | no need to tell me things I already know :) |
| 10:34 | <gsnedders> | annevk: Then why link to that and not hATOM ?:P |
| 10:34 | <gsnedders> | *hAtom |
| 10:35 | <gsnedders> | Damned Anne trying to confuse me! |
| 10:38 | <annevk> | i'm not at fault, you're trying to apply logic to this situation |
| 10:42 | <gsnedders> | True. |
| 14:23 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: (It always will, because it does more. But the cost is greater than it need be at the moment.) |
| 16:08 | <Philip`> | I suggest calling them "cabalists" |
| 16:09 | <gsnedders> | An unauthorised calculator is defined as: |
| 16:09 | <gsnedders> | ♦ a calculator with inadmissible facilities, eg a computer algebra system (CAS) |
| 16:09 | <gsnedders> | ♦ a calculator which contains inadmissible data or text |
| 16:09 | <gsnedders> | ♦ any form of hand-held computer, eg a personal digital assistant (PDA) |
| 16:09 | <gsnedders> | So that's what I need. |
| 16:09 | <Philip`> | You need an authorised calculator? |
| 16:10 | <gsnedders> | No, just one that isn't unauthorised :P |
| 16:10 | <Philip`> | Oh |
| 16:10 | <Philip`> | I typoed |
| 16:10 | <Philip`> | I meant: |
| 16:10 | <Philip`> | You need an unauthorised calculator? |
| 16:11 | <gsnedders> | No, I need one that is authorised :P |
| 16:11 | <Philip`> | So when you said "that's what I need", you meant the complete opposite? |
| 16:11 | <gsnedders> | Yeah. |
| 16:11 | <gsnedders> | Obviously. |
| 16:11 | <Philip`> | But I can't complain since I said "authorised" when I meant the complete opposite :-( |
| 16:11 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: is diamond #2 something that you are allowed to address by letting a teacher reset your calculator? |
| 16:12 | <gsnedders> | diamond #2? |
| 16:12 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: or do you need one that they can tell is authorized by looking at it |
| 16:12 | <gsnedders> | Oh, that sort of diamond. |
| 16:12 | <gsnedders> | I dunno. |
| 16:14 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: if you need the latter, I suggest pushing as close to the limit as you can by getting a calculator that has an editable input buffer |
| 16:15 | <gsnedders> | Yeah, I already have such a calculator (just non-graphical). |
| 16:15 | <gsnedders> | Anyone have any opinion on the TI-84? |
| 16:54 | <annevk> | yay, more RDF e-mail :) |
| 16:54 | annevk | &heart; RDF e-mail |
| 16:59 | <Dashiva> | You should express that as RDF so that it can be reused |
| 17:01 | <gsnedders> | Also, I'd be able to add it to my knowledge-base about you. |
| 17:01 | <annevk> | two good reasons not to me |
| 17:01 | <annevk> | s/ me// |
| 17:02 | <annevk> | and a knowledge-base about me, wtf? |
| 17:02 | <annevk> | you guys are crazy |
| 17:02 | <gsnedders> | We stalk you, don't you know? |
| 17:02 | <annevk> | aah, that explains why my garbage bin moves at night |
| 17:02 | <gsnedders> | It's one of many great uses of RDF! |
| 17:25 | <annevk> | more xml:id fallout: http://blog.jclark.com/2009/01/relax-ng-and-xmlid.html |
| 18:18 | <Dashiva> | Oh, Shelley... |
| 19:22 | <hsivonen> | Shelley's mention of RSS 1.0 is interesting, because after flirting with RDF, the feed community knowingly moved away from RDF |
| 19:23 | <hsivonen> | also, Mozilla implemented RDF when it was a new and unproven thing and has since moved away from using RDF internally |
| 19:42 | <annevk> | per definition all the xmlns="" and xmlns:<foo>="" attributes are different in HTML and XML |
| 19:42 | <annevk> | apart from that, everything is equal I think |
| 19:42 | <annevk> | as far as RDFa goes |
| 19:44 | <Dashiva> | "SVG and MathML had valid use cases. Therefore RDFa must be added for no real reason." |
| 19:44 | <annevk> | Dashiva, you know, remarks like that is why I voted three times for you on lastweekinhtml5 :) |
| 19:45 | <annevk> | ooh, jgraham is close to BenMillard now |
| 19:45 | <Dashiva> | annevk: Plan "make anne confess", great success |
| 19:46 | <annevk> | Dashiva, :p |
| 19:47 | <Dashiva> | I'm confused with the top, though |
| 19:47 | <Dashiva> | Ben isn't very smeggy at all |
| 19:48 | <annevk> | http://zaa.ch/past/2009/1/17/the_future_of_the_web/ |
| 19:49 | <hsivonen> | at least we've moved from the Vast Browser-Wing Conspiracy towards a Google Conspiracy |
| 19:50 | <Dashiva> | hsivonen: That ruins your mozilla example, though |
| 19:50 | <Dashiva> | Since they're obviously being pressured by their sugar daddy Google to avoid RDF |
| 19:50 | <annevk> | Plan "make people think it's a Google Conspiracy", great success |
| 19:51 | <annevk> | Dashiva, yeah, and Google was also involved in Atom! Bastards. |
| 19:52 | <hsivonen> | annevk: I thought they they hired Atom people afterwards |
| 19:52 | <Dashiva> | Cover operation |
| 19:52 | <annevk> | hsivonen, Blogger was one of the first to deploy Atom 0.3 |
| 19:52 | <annevk> | Blogger was part of Google already, right? |
| 19:52 | <hsivonen> | oh |
| 19:53 | <gsnedders> | annevk: yeah |
| 19:53 | <BenMillard> | Dashiva, thanks. :) The poll still puts me at 10x more smeggy than you, though. |
| 19:53 | <gsnedders> | And I still have no votes. |
| 19:54 | <BenMillard> | annevk, plan "mark everything on Public-HTML as read unless includes me in the To or CC line", great success. :) |
| 19:54 | <Dashiva> | annevk: Going back to your link |
| 19:54 | <Dashiva> | "(...) any realization of a Semantic Web will depend on structured data." |
| 19:55 | <svl> | gsnedders: I see four votes for you under "all of the above" |
| 19:55 | <gsnedders> | svl: Smartass. |
| 19:55 | <svl> | ^_^ |
| 19:55 | <Dashiva> | So not only is RDF axiomatically going to happen, the semantic web is too |
| 19:55 | <gsnedders> | Hmmm… |
| 19:55 | <annevk> | Dashiva, great, guess we don't have to do anything then :) |
| 19:55 | <gsnedders> | $x = \frac{16}{b-1}$ |
| 19:56 | <gsnedders> | $x$ and $b$ are natural numbers. |
| 19:56 | <annevk> | no math post-5PM |
| 19:56 | <gsnedders> | There is a sequence, x, x + 8, bx. |
| 19:56 | <Dashiva> | annevk: Fix the mathml bug |
| 19:56 | <gsnedders> | What possible values of x and b are there? |
| 19:56 | <gsnedders> | annevk: I have a maths exam on Monday, thus maths will appear after 17:00 |
| 19:56 | <annevk> | Dashiva, what MathML bug? |
| 19:57 | <Dashiva> | The one where we only render the first part in a mfenced |
| 19:57 | <annevk> | gsnedders, they can appear after 17:00, but only if it's also after 5:00 |
| 19:57 | <gsnedders> | annevk: It is currently after 5:00. |
| 19:57 | <annevk> | Dashiva, if by we you mean Opera, yeah, we should just do MathML natively |
| 19:57 | <annevk> | gsnedders, true, I meant the 5:00 that comes after 17:00 though |
| 19:57 | <Dashiva> | gsnedders: Multiply by b-1 and factorize? |
| 19:57 | <annevk> | gsnedders, i.e. tomorrow |
| 19:58 | <gsnedders> | annevk: Oh, I didn't realize. |
| 19:58 | <gsnedders> | :P |
| 19:58 | BenMillard | chuckles at time format humour, sadly. |
| 19:59 | <gsnedders> | x(b-1) = 16… |
| 19:59 | gsnedders | wonders how to factorize that |
| 20:00 | gsnedders | blatently sucks at maths |
| 20:02 | <Philip`> | gsnedders: I suggest finding the factors of 16 |
| 20:02 | <Dashiva> | Try x = any divisor of 16 (including negative) and see if it works |
| 20:02 | <Philip`> | $ factor 16 |
| 20:02 | <Philip`> | 16: 2 2 2 2 |
| 20:03 | <Philip`> | Oh, that's only prime factors, which isn't so useful |
| 20:03 | <gsnedders> | 1, 2, 4, 8 |
| 20:03 | <gsnedders> | It's not that hard to work them out :P |
| 20:03 | <Philip`> | and 16 |
| 20:04 | <gsnedders> | and it should work for all. |
| 20:04 | <gsnedders> | according to the answers. |
| 20:04 | <Philip`> | Since b-1 divides 16, b-1 must be 1 or 2 or 8 or 16 and it's trivial to find x |
| 20:04 | <Philip`> | ...or 4... |
| 20:07 | <hsivonen> | did Opera include some RDF APIs at some point? I can't find documentation. |
| 20:08 | <annevk> | hsivonen, I don't think so |
| 20:08 | <hsivonen> | oh. interesting |
| 20:09 | <annevk> | all we support is the RDF meaning RSS 1.0 ... |
| 20:11 | <hsivonen> | annevk: do you parse it into a graph? |
| 20:14 | <annevk> | no |
| 20:25 | <gsnedders> | Hmm, for all those (i.e., (x,b) = (1.17)…(16,2)) "calculate the sum of the first 10 terms". So, using $0.5*10(x+(10-1)8)$ I get the wrong answers |
| 20:25 | <gsnedders> | But s/x/2x/ gives the right answers. |
| 20:25 | <gsnedders> | (Assuming the given answsers are correct) |
| 20:25 | <gsnedders> | *answers |
| 20:26 | <gsnedders> | Why would it be 2x? |
| 20:27 | <Dashiva> | First ten in what order? |
| 20:27 | <Philip`> | First ten of what? |
| 20:28 | <gsnedders> | The arithmetic sequence x, x + 8, bx |
| 20:28 | <Philip`> | That's not a sequence, it's just three numbers |
| 20:28 | <gsnedders> | (for which we found possible values of x and b) |
| 20:28 | <gsnedders> | Sorry, that's the first three terms of the sequence |
| 20:28 | <gsnedders> | So the sequence should be, I think, x + (n-1)8 |
| 20:29 | <Dashiva> | I don't think this qualifies as well-defined |
| 20:29 | <gsnedders> | Dashiva: That's normal in this textbook. |
| 20:29 | <gsnedders> | :( |
| 20:29 | <Dashiva> | You're holding out on us |
| 20:30 | <gsnedders> | Yet the only way this works for the final part of the question is 2x + (n-1)8 |
| 20:30 | <gsnedders> | Which inevitably breaks what I asked above |
| 20:30 | <Dashiva> | Why don't you tell us the whole question :) |
| 20:30 | <gsnedders> | Dashiva: Because Im lazy? :) |
| 20:30 | <Philip`> | x + (n-1)8 doesn't look like it involves b at all |
| 20:31 | <jcranmer> | arithmetic sequences you can solve given only two terms |
| 20:32 | <jcranmer> | well, two terms and you know what number those are |
| 20:33 | <Philip`> | That's true but, I think, irrelevant :-p |
| 20:34 | <Philip`> | Oh, maybe not |
| 20:34 | <Philip`> | "The arithmetic sequence x, x + 8, bx" is only an arithmetic sequence if bx = x+16 |
| 20:34 | <Philip`> | and the earlier condition on b and x means that's true |
| 20:34 | <gsnedders> | http://pastebin.ca/1311084 |
| 20:34 | <gsnedders> | There's the full question. |
| 20:35 | <Dashiva> | ... that's a very different question! |
| 20:35 | <gsnedders> | The bx part is completely irrelevant in the final part. |
| 20:35 | <Dashiva> | And Philip` answered it |
| 20:35 | <gsnedders> | Where? |
| 20:35 | gsnedders | is blind |
| 20:36 | <Dashiva> | Guess you're out of luck then :( |
| 20:36 | <gsnedders> | :P |
| 20:36 | <gsnedders> | The final part it gives answers 370–520. |
| 20:36 | <gsnedders> | I got 365–440. |
| 20:38 | <Philip`> | The first term in the sequence is x, the tenth term is x+8*9, so the mean is (x+x+8*9)/2 and the sum is 10*(x+x+8*9)/2 |
| 20:38 | <Philip`> | which is 5x+36 |
| 20:38 | <gsnedders> | If the sequence were $2x + (n - 1)8$ for the $n$th term, and not $x + (n-1)8$, I would get those answers |
| 20:39 | <Philip`> | Wait, I can't do arithmetic |
| 20:39 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: That disagrees with both me and the textbook |
| 20:39 | <Philip`> | It's 10x+360 |
| 20:39 | <Philip`> | so the answers are 370, 520, etc |
| 20:40 | <gsnedders> | It should be $0.5n(x+(n-1)8)$ |
| 20:40 | <gsnedders> | Oh wait. |
| 20:40 | <Philip`> | I think you're missing a +x in the middle |
| 20:40 | <gsnedders> | I can't read. |
| 20:40 | <gsnedders> | It should be 2x |
| 20:41 | gsnedders | can't read the textbook |
| 20:42 | jcranmer | sighs |
| 20:42 | <gsnedders> | Scary problem: I'm meant to know a large number of equations on Monday |
| 20:42 | <Philip`> | You shouldn't know the equations, you should just know how to derive them :-) |
| 20:43 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: deriving everything from axioms in a test takes time |
| 20:43 | <jcranmer> | hsivonen: that's how I survived AP Physics |
| 20:43 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: Yeah, I do that with the computing things (mainly we are meant to remember algorithms). But in maths, as hsivonen, it takes precious time. |
| 20:43 | <Philip`> | (e.g. I don't know the equation for summing arithmetic sequences, but I know it's the average of the first and last terms multiplied by the number of terms) |
| 20:44 | <Philip`> | hsivonen: You don't need to start from the axioms and produce a formal proof, so it's not quite that bad :-) |