| 06:12 | <Hixie> | man, some people are weird |
| 06:13 | <Hixie> | i'm continuously amazed at the conclusions people draw from things such as the fact that localstorage is now published in a different document than, say, <canvas> |
| 06:13 | <Hixie> | given that there is no practical difference |
| 06:13 | <Hixie> | same source document, same editor, same timetable, same implementation priorities |
| 06:15 | <Hixie> | aboodman: i think it's too late to change the localStorage API; IE8 shipped with it already |
| 06:15 | <Hixie> | and they don't lock across instances of their browser |
| 06:15 | <Hixie> | so they don't guarantee that localStorage.foo == localStorage.foo |
| 06:15 | <aboodman> | Hixie: it's never too late. I thought that was the point. |
| 06:15 | <aboodman> | isn't there a big disclaimer at the top of the spec to that effect? |
| 06:16 | <Hixie> | disclaimer or not, realistically speaking it would be stupid of us to do something that breaks compatibility with IE |
| 06:16 | <Hixie> | it'll be 2 or 3 years before they ship IE9 |
| 06:17 | <Hixie> | so the earliest we could expect them to implement a new API is long after we can expect the API to be used widely |
| 06:17 | <aboodman> | it's a very small incompatibility that's being proposed. |
| 06:17 | <aboodman> | easily papered over by js |
| 06:18 | <aboodman> | i doubt other vendors will be into the idea of shipping something obviously broken when a simple fix exists. |
| 06:18 | <Hixie> | i guess |
| 06:19 | <Hixie> | we should bring this up on public-html |
| 06:19 | <Hixie> | see what they think |
| 06:19 | <aboodman> | sure. |
| 06:19 | <Hixie> | they did, after all, fail to implement the spec as written |
| 06:19 | <Hixie> | which might give us _some_ leverage |
| 06:35 | <Hixie> | jwalden: i didn't really understand what you were asking for regarding your blog post section headers |
| 06:36 | <jwalden> | Hixie: each post has this basic format: <article><h1>post title</h1> ...post content...</article> |
| 06:36 | <jwalden> | Hixie: if I want each post's content to be able to contain headers (but not *necessarily* contain any), and I want that content to be able to use the natural style of h1, h2, h3, etc. headers, I need to put it in a sectioning element |
| 06:37 | <jwalden> | but if I do that, any entry which doesn't contain a header shows up in outlines as "Untitled Section" or similar |
| 06:37 | <Hixie> | just use <h2> - <h6> for subheaders |
| 06:37 | <jwalden> | that's possible, sure |
| 06:38 | <Hixie> | doesn't that solve the problem? :-) |
| 06:38 | <jwalden> | it just seems odd, because I thought one of the prime goals of this was to make it easy to copy-paste from elsewhere where h1 could have been used |
| 06:38 | <Hixie> | if you use <h1> and <section>, you can copy paste that content anywhere, yes |
| 06:39 | <Hixie> | i guess i don't understand the problem still |
| 06:39 | <jwalden> | beyond that, it just seems odd that a section with no heading would show up in an outline |
| 06:40 | <Hixie> | so always title your sections :-P |
| 06:41 | <jwalden> | it seems reasonable for a post author to think that there's an implicit section around his post's content; maybe that's just relying too much on the exact format of the blog templates, but it's what I'd expect had I not ginned this up on my own |
| 06:42 | <Hixie> | i don't understand why you can't rely on there being an implicit section |
| 06:43 | <Hixie> | either you write your content as "bla bla intro bla bla <h2>subsection</h2> subbla subbla" or you write it as "bla bla intro bla bla <section> <h1>subsection</h1> subbla subbla</section>" |
| 11:46 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: You got any outliner testcases? |
| 12:38 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: no |
| 12:53 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Oh, well that's lame |
| 12:53 | <jgraham> | :) |
| 13:58 | <gsnedders> | Is this another address for Philip TAYLOR? |
| 14:00 | <Philip`> | I don't think it's a new one |
| 14:06 | <jgraham> | Seen it before |
| 14:41 | <rubys> | Anybody have any idea why Chrome and Safari clip the image in the lower right on this page? http://intertwingly.net/blog/ Opera and Firefox3 display it without clipping. IE8 ignores it. |
| 14:43 | <Alkarex> | rubys: It is not only clipped, but also not the same size |
| 14:44 | <rubys> | agreed |
| 14:49 | <Alkarex> | rubys: Changing your viewbox to e.g. viewBox="-10 -10 150 250" makes it completely visible in Chrome |
| 14:52 | <Alkarex> | rubys: Seems to be only SVG and not CSS related |
| 14:54 | <rubys> | that same image appears elsewhere on the page.. intact. |
| 14:55 | <Alkarex> | Something to do with units maybe? |
| 14:57 | <rubys> | I guess the real question is: who is "right"? |
| 14:59 | <Alkarex> | rubys: Hum, it is interesting to see the differences between the browsers when setting <svg width="100%" height="100%"> |
| 14:59 | <jgraham> | Does anyone have html5lib svn installed? Assuming they can run the unit tests, which version of simplejson do they have? I seem to be getting character encoding realted errors on a clean checkout |
| 14:59 | <Alkarex> | rubys: with 100% 100% it stays within the dimensions defined by CSS in Firefox, but not in Chrome |
| 15:02 | <Alkarex> | rubys: Ok, with 100% 100% it works also in Chrome when defining height in CSS |
| 15:08 | <rubys> | Weird... adding height to css but not changing the svg causes it to be clipped in both directions. |
| 15:17 | <Alkarex> | rubys: works ok with, in CSS footer svg {height:14em;} and in SVG <SVG width="100%" height="100%" viewBox="0 0 160 160"> and <g stroke="#940" transform="scale(1.5)"> :-P |
| 15:18 | <Philip`> | rubys: You could replace it with a PNG image |
| 15:18 | <Alkarex> | Philip`: It would not be funny |
| 15:21 | <Alkarex> | Today, I came accross DotBot: http://www.dotnetdotcom.org/ They are crawling the Web, and have a free database to download (68GB so far). Could be useful to make usage statistics |
| 15:25 | <Philip`> | Alkarex: That looks pretty interesting |
| 15:26 | <Philip`> | Maybe it would be nice if they could store the data on a public Amazon EBS disk, so people can mount it into an EC2 machine and process it without having to download the data... |
| 15:27 | <Alkarex> | Philip`: They seem to be welcoming comments and suggestions |
| 15:30 | <Alkarex> | rubys: my modified code seems to give the precise same results in Opera, Chrome and Firefox |
| 16:04 | <jgraham> | Hmm, does the dotbot thing really use null seperated fields? Isn't that rather easy to confuse? I guess they must be escaping the content somehow but they don't obviously say how |
| 16:08 | <takkaria> | yknow, the big benefit to reading public-html on the archives is that the urge to reply is greatly reduced |
| 16:10 | <annevk5> | jgraham, yeah, would be nice to know actually how much content uses null bytes |
| 16:11 | <Philip`> | annevk5: Lots does |
| 16:11 | <Philip`> | including all the pages encoded in UTF-16 |
| 16:12 | <Philip`> | and all the PNG and JPEGs |
| 16:13 | <Philip`> | *PNGs |
| 16:13 | <Philip`> | and PDFs |
| 16:13 | <Philip`> | etc |
| 16:13 | <Philip`> | many of which are likely to be mislabeled as text/html |
| 16:13 | <annevk5> | hmm, true |
| 16:28 | <takkaria> | ah, the urge to post got too great |
| 16:28 | <takkaria> | ah well |
| 16:30 | gsnedders | is surprised to find takkaria has only emailed public-html three times |
| 16:31 | <takkaria> | oh, it's more than that |
| 16:31 | <takkaria> | I've just used different email addresses |
| 16:31 | <gsnedders> | Ah, and use Andrew in the From field |
| 16:31 | <gsnedders> | Just searching for sidwell turns up 53 matches |
| 16:32 | <takkaria> | I keep quiet, since most of the time I just add more noise to noise. :) |
| 16:32 | <gsnedders> | takkaria: I like the last thing on that list |
| 16:32 | <gsnedders> | takkaria: Your analogies will certainly be wrong, according to others on the list. |
| 16:33 | <takkaria> | well, they're wrong :) |
| 16:35 | gsnedders | sighs and dares look at the amount of red written on his draft computing project |
| 16:35 | <takkaria> | I had a terrifying dream last night |
| 16:35 | <gsnedders> | takkaria: Did it involve getting a job? |
| 16:35 | <gsnedders> | I ought to get one of those. |
| 16:36 | <takkaria> | no, it involved resitting GCSEs |
| 16:36 | <gsnedders> | Okay, interesting dream… |
| 16:42 | <gsnedders> | takkaria: Are you going to expand on that, or was that it? |
| 16:43 | jgraham | always dreams that he has to resit his German GCSE when he has that kind of dream |
| 16:44 | <jgraham> | And obviously I haven't learnt any words |
| 16:44 | <jgraham> | (in the dream) |
| 16:44 | Philip` | usually dreams of more interesting things than GCSEs, e.g. leaping out through the cockpit window of an AT-ST |
| 16:45 | <takkaria> | gsnedders: that was pretty much all of it. I had to do an extra year at high school and it was just bad, bad voodoo really |
| 16:45 | gsnedders | has an absurd number of dreams involving drugs |
| 16:47 | <takkaria> | legal or illegal? |
| 16:47 | <gsnedders> | takkaria: Both |
| 16:47 | <takkaria> | fun times |
| 16:48 | gsnedders | realizes he probably ought to buy something to wear for ball |
| 16:49 | <gsnedders> | Biggest question is whether I wear a kilt or not |
| 16:50 | <takkaria> | I recommend corset, kilt and heels |
| 16:50 | <gsnedders> | I don't think that'll go down overly well |
| 16:51 | <takkaria> | shame |
| 16:51 | <gsnedders> | Also, the girl I'm going with probably wouldn't overly appove… |
| 16:51 | <gsnedders> | *approve |
| 16:51 | <gsnedders> | Even if she has, like most of my friends, concluded that almost all purposes I am a girl. |
| 16:54 | gsnedders | also has no faith in his ability to dance in heals |
| 18:53 | <Lachy> | gsnedders, is it common for people to wear kilts to balls in Scotland? |
| 18:53 | <gsnedders> | Lachy: yes |
| 18:53 | <Lachy> | wow. They look so aweful. Why?! |
| 18:53 | <gsnedders> | But for guys to where corsets and heels? No. |
| 18:53 | <Lachy> | haha |
| 18:54 | <gsnedders> | Lachy: Ask any friend of mine. They certainly won't say they look awful. |
| 18:54 | <Lachy> | I'd like to see a photo of you wearing a kilt, corset and heels. |
| 18:54 | <gsnedders> | (where friend implies female) |
| 18:55 | <gsnedders> | Oh dear… |
| 18:55 | <gsnedders> | Last time I got dared such a thing I ended up having green hair to a ceilidh |
| 18:55 | <gsnedders> | s/to/at/ |
| 18:55 | <Lachy> | what's a ceilidh? |
| 18:55 | <gsnedders> | Exactly what Wikipedia says it is. |
| 18:57 | <Lachy> | ok, so it's just a dance. |
| 19:02 | <takkaria> | not any dance |
| 19:03 | <gsnedders> | It has to be some type of Gaelic dancing |
| 20:25 | <Lachy> | gsnedders, the documentation for Automagic Bibliography doesn't mention anything about the <!--begin-normative-->/<!--end-normative--> and <!--begin-informative-->/<!--end-informative--> comments that need to be in the HTML file |
| 20:51 | <Lachy> | gsnedders, the documentation also fails to mention that [[foo]] is an informative reference and that [[!foo]] is a normaitive referecne. |
| 20:55 | <jgraham> | Kilts are aweful. They inspire awe. |
| 20:56 | <jgraham> | Wearing one shows reall balls. Often literally. |
| 21:13 | <gsnedders> | Lachy: Email, please |
| 23:04 | <annevk3> | http://www.thespanner.co.uk/2009/03/20/html5-xss/ |
| 23:13 | <Lachy> | that same xss technique can be used with many of the new event attributes on other elements, given the abillity to inject such elements into another site. The solution is for sites to use whitelist based filtering that only allows known, safe elements and attributes |
| 23:20 | <Philip`> | http://sla.ckers.org/forum/read.php?12,8085,27026#msg-27026 |
| 23:20 | <Philip`> | refers to http://php-ids.org/ |
| 23:21 | <Philip`> | where the idea seems to be act as a layer that detects dodgy requests, to prevent people exploiting XSS holes |
| 23:21 | <Philip`> | (where XSS holes are caused by forgetting to escape output, so the idea of whitelists is irrelevant because you weren't intending to let people output any sort of HTML at all) |
| 23:40 | <karlcow> | http://www.w3.org/2009/03/web-demo.xhtml |