| 00:01 | <Philip`> | "wow. fascinating. depressing." - that's an appropriate response to pretty much any attempt to look at a random collection of real-world markup |
| 00:02 | <Dashiva> | Or humanity in general :) |
| 00:02 | <Philip`> | I hope nobody is going to notice that there's some weird euc-jp decoding issues on my table-summary-values-dotbot page where it inexplicably misses the '"' at the end of an attribute value |
| 00:03 | <Philip`> | (I assume it's an euc-jp decoding issue because all the offending values look kind of Japanese or something foreign like that) |
| 00:03 | <Philip`> | (I can't reproduce the problem with parsetree.validator.nu but I don't care enough to debug it further) |
| 00:04 | <Dashiva> | Shouldn't the URL show whether it's Japanese or not? |
| 00:04 | <Philip`> | I guess so |
| 00:04 | <Philip`> | but I didn't look very closely |
| 00:05 | <Philip`> | and I'm not going to look now because it's a 5MB page and I have to pay the equivalent of half a chocolate digestive biscuit per megabyte of traffic |
| 00:06 | <Dashiva> | Well, I just clicked the expand link in your summary table :) |
| 00:07 | <Philip`> | You could look for some of the values lower down that have strings like "<tr>" in them |
| 00:08 | <Philip`> | and see if those are .jp pages |
| 00:08 | <Dashiva> | Yup |
| 00:08 | <Hixie> | Philip` needs a better network service provider |
| 00:08 | <Hixie> | one that charges a flat rate |
| 00:08 | <Lachy> | I'm surprised by how well Shelly wrote those emails about summary. Is she the same Shelly who's been complaining about RDFa stuff? |
| 00:08 | <Hixie> | and not per bit |
| 00:09 | <Dashiva> | Maybe they charge per byte, so it still costs the same if he only downloads 7 bits |
| 00:09 | <Philip`> | Hixie: I have one of those, but the wireless router appears to be dead, so I'm using a mobile broadband thingamy instead |
| 00:10 | <Hixie> | Philip`: fix the router :-P |
| 00:10 | <Dashiva> | Philip`: I checked a few different ones, they all contain Japanese sites. I can't say every site listed is Japanese, but it seems likely. |
| 00:10 | <Philip`> | Hixie: I can't fix it myself - all I can do is complain to the owners, and they're asleep now :-p |
| 00:11 | <Lachy> | although, I really hate it when people claim that "... the folks who really want this attribute gone, really have no alternative solution in mind." because that's just complete nonsense. |
| 00:11 | <Hixie> | Philip`: ah |
| 00:12 | Philip` | found that most "flat rate" mobile broadband thingamy plans had a limit of 3GB per month, and cost £15/month, which isn't so good |
| 00:13 | <Philip`> | (so I got one that's £15/GB and doesn't expire for 6 months, which is better value when I don't use it much) |
| 00:13 | <takkaria> | Philip`: hm, is that 3G USB stick-type stuff? who did you get yours from? |
| 00:14 | <Philip`> | takkaria: It is |
| 00:14 | <Dashiva> | Bah. Why is it so hard to get that stuff like autoplay are author hints, the UA is perfectly capable of overriding. |
| 00:14 | <Philip`> | takkaria: It's a Vodafone one |
| 00:15 | <takkaria> | Philip`: ah cool, sounds like what I want really |
| 00:16 | <Philip`> | takkaria: (Also it works on Linux, with a couple of configuration files found via Google) |
| 00:30 | <jjlee> | what's the best way to get character indices of tags out of html5lib? |
| 00:31 | <jjlee> | I had a quick look a few weeks back, and suspected that copy and pasting chunks of html5lib into my code was likely my best option |
| 00:31 | <jjlee> | any other ideas? |
| 01:20 | <ezyang> | So, is the dash-dash-bang-angle comment terminator change solid now? |
| 01:20 | <ezyang> | (If it is, we should add tests) |
| 01:22 | <Hixie> | i think so |
| 01:23 | <ezyang> | Great! |
| 04:33 | <Hixie> | uh oh |
| 04:33 | <Hixie> | i've reached microdata e-mails |
| 04:34 | <Hixie> | time to go home i think! |
| 04:35 | <Dashiva> | But it's not even midnight yet! |
| 05:21 | <Hixie> | http://digg.com/comedy/W3C_s_Response_to_the_sarcasm_Tag_in_HTML_5_PIC is sad |
| 05:22 | <Hixie> | first of all, whoever is behind the w3c twitter account clearly doesn't know html5 well |
| 05:23 | <Hixie> | secondly, clearly the people commenting there don't either :-P |
| 05:27 | <ezyang> | Yaya |
| 05:27 | <ezyang> | But you should take a deep breath |
| 05:28 | <jruderman> | you disagree with the reply from the w3c account? |
| 12:44 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: maybe <hgroup> without <h1>-<h6> descendant should be ignored altogether instead of being equivalent to <h1> |
| 15:54 | gsnedders | wants resizable text fields in all browsers… |
| 15:54 | gsnedders | grumbles |
| 17:25 | <Philip`> | <li><a href...>Menu item <!--[if IE 7]><!--></a><!--<![endif]--> <!--[if lte IE 6]><table><tr><td><![endif]--> <ul> Sub-menu items... </ul> <!--[if lte IE 6]></td></tr></table></a><![endif]--> </li> |
| 17:25 | <Philip`> | Conditional comments let people do scary things |
| 17:52 | <krijnh> | Philip`: almost every example on http://www.cssplay.co.uk/ uses that |
| 17:54 | <krijnh> | I think it started with http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menus/dd_valid_2.html |
| 18:02 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: WTF? |
| 18:26 | jgraham | wonders if he should clean up the table summary long terms solution page so that it isn't so biased |
| 18:27 | <jgraham> | Or failing that at least so that it makes sense |
| 18:28 | <jgraham> | And actually has the proposal I made rather than a worse variation on it |
| 20:47 | <gsnedders> | Is there anyway to get a a Document object from an HTML string? |
| 20:47 | <gsnedders> | *a string containing HTML |
| 20:48 | <Philip`> | document.write into an iframe? |
| 20:49 | <gsnedders> | how do I do it in an iframe? |
| 20:50 | <gsnedders> | I mean, the iframe will already have html/head/body… |
| 20:52 | <Philip`> | Do what the Live DOM Viewer does, I guess |
| 20:52 | <gsnedders> | What does that do? |
| 20:52 | <gsnedders> | :P |
| 20:55 | <Philip`> | document.writes into an iframe, I think |
| 20:56 | <Philip`> | (after calling document.open) |
| 20:57 | gsnedders | always gets confused when he looks at the Live DOM Viewer's source :P |
| 21:16 | <webben> | (OT): http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/syndata.html#charset Anybody know what CSS2.1 means by "byte" here? |
| 21:17 | <webben> | I'm trying to implement CSS2.1 character encoding sniffing, and I'm just looking at the character encodings that involve transcoding. |
| 21:17 | <webben> | Starting with GSM 03.38. |
| 21:17 | gsnedders | notes this would be easier if he hadn't just crashed his web browser |
| 21:19 | <webben> | What's confusing me is that whereas you can grab octets for (say) UTF-8 bytes (i.e. octets) and match against their regexes, GSM 03.38 takes packs 7-bit codepoints into octets. |
| 21:19 | <webben> | so if you just naively grab the octets, they won't match that regex |
| 21:19 | <gsnedders> | Well, if it is codepoints then doesn't that give you the Unicode string? |
| 21:19 | <webben> | you actually have to decompose them to septets. |
| 21:20 | <webben> | gsnedders: I'm using codepoints loosely. These aren't unicode codepoints. |
| 21:20 | gsnedders | thinks this would be easier to answer if he actually knew what GSM did :) |
| 21:21 | <webben> | There the abstract hex values in the GSM 03.38 character encoding, which can be represented into 7 bits, which are then packed into octets such that one octet contains bits from multiple codepoints. |
| 21:21 | <webben> | http://pda.etsi.org/exchangefolder/ts_100900v070200p.pdf is the GSM 03.38 spec. |
| 21:22 | <webben> | and http://www.dreamfabric.com/sms/ is a English-language description of what it does. |
| 21:22 | <webben> | I've been wrestingly with this in increasing confusion all day; figured there's quite a lot of spec-compliance and character encoding knowledge in this channel ;) |
| 21:23 | gsnedders | would ignore that table in CSS21 :) |
| 21:23 | <gsnedders> | Other things make more sense for GSM 03.38, IMO. |
| 21:23 | <gsnedders> | Or maybe I'm wrong |
| 21:23 | gsnedders | shrugs |
| 21:23 | <gsnedders> | Don't ask me! |
| 21:23 | <webben> | I've also been wondering: who delivers CSS in GSM 03.38? I can't find any reference to this anywhere else. |
| 21:24 | webben | is also amused that i18n's test cases for CSS and charset don't actually cover all these random encodings. |
| 21:24 | <webben> | (http://www.w3.org/International/tests/list-html-css#charset) |
| 21:30 | Philip` | discovers that if you don't have setuptools installed, Trac will silently choose not to attempt to load any plugins |
| 21:48 | <virtuelv> | GSM 03.38 brings back bad memories |
| 23:17 | <ezyang> | Hixie, you update the tree-construction and tokenization parts of the spec too much :-( |
| 23:22 | <ezyang> | In other news, it would be totally awesome if the diffs would actually tell you what section you were, instead of some bogus function. |
| 23:23 | <gsnedders> | Uh, yeah. We discussed this at TPAC. If someone writes the code to do this :P |
| 23:23 | <ezyang> | We could cheeze it by adding <!-- function section1header4 { --> |
| 23:53 | <gsnedders> | ezyang: We're above that :P |