| 00:35 | <Darxus> | Is there any other markup language that has anything equivalent to an html table's ability to have overlapping cells? |
| 00:36 | <Darxus> | ..which I should consider while writing a schema language that can specify that a table should not have overlapping cells? |
| 00:51 | <Darxus> | Or can you think of a case where anyone would be likely to create a markup language with a structure different from: All cells are in rows, all rows must be the same width, all columns must be the same height, and there must be no overlapping cells? |
| 00:51 | <Darxus> | I realize cells could be contained in columns instead... do you think that will ever happen? |
| 01:09 | <Dashiva> | Darxus: Have you ever used GridBagLayout? |
| 01:51 | <Darxus> | Dashiva: No. |
| 01:52 | <takkaria> | Darxus: hmm |
| 01:52 | <takkaria> | well, someone might write a markup language where you had to lay out the table both in columns and rows separately |
| 01:52 | <takkaria> | and if the two don't match up, it's an error |
| 02:01 | <Darxus> | Heh. |
| 02:18 | <deltab> | Darxus: Microsoft Excel has the ability to merge (span) cells; other spreadsheet formats likely have the same ability |
| 02:20 | <deltab> | so OOXML and ODF |
| 02:20 | <deltab> | oh, *overlapping*? |
| 02:20 | <deltab> | that is, two cells that actually cover the same area? |
| 02:50 | <Darxus> | deltab: http://www.chaosreigns.com/code/dxschema/tests/invalidtable.html |
| 02:51 | <deltab> | ah, not that I know of |
| 02:53 | <Darxus> | deltab: Just looking for stuff I might want to be able to validate. I think I've decided to not worry about it. |
| 03:10 | <Darxus> | Implimenting relax ng style <choice> is difficult while my girlfriend is watching bollywood. |
| 04:36 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: why .../markup-spec/ and .../markup/? what's the difference? |
| 04:37 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: I don't know what markup-spec is |
| 04:37 | <MikeSmith> | in dev.w3.org? |
| 04:37 | <Hixie> | http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup-spec/ |
| 04:38 | MikeSmith | looks |
| 04:39 | <Hixie> | man, between the media thing from philipj earlier and this navigation thing from bz, i'm getting no peace in terms of dealing with the simple stuff today |
| 04:39 | <Hixie> | those are like 2 of the most complex algorithms in the spec, and both pieces of feedback are basically "there's this minor edge case that affects everything that you got wrong" |
| 04:42 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: you should just do what most other standards editors do, hide your head in the sand and don't admit those cases actually even exist |
| 04:42 | <Hixie> | boy would that be nice |
| 04:42 | <Hixie> | actually this fragment id thing might not be as bad as i feared |
| 04:42 | <Hixie> | (the one i checked in earlier for media selection was a bitch, i'm sure i made mistakes in changing it) |
| 04:43 | <MikeSmith> | that's the thing -- just like product dev: You make a fix in one place, risks introducing regressions elsewhere |
| 04:45 | <Hixie> | yeah. i hate it when people say "oh i'm not asking for any normative changes, i would just like you to change your use of the word "foo" for the word "bar" everywhere" |
| 04:45 | <Hixie> | how about... no |
| 04:46 | <MikeSmith> | house of cards |
| 04:47 | <MikeSmith> | man, I really don't know what I did to bring http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup-spec/ into existence. it's not in CVS. must be some apache redirect I set up and forgot about |
| 04:47 | <Hixie> | heh |
| 04:48 | <Hixie> | it's a different date |
| 04:49 | <MikeSmith> | I'll get it figured out |
| 04:49 | <MikeSmith> | by the way: |
| 04:49 | <MikeSmith> | about comments saying there's no easy way to get a view of maturity levels of different parts of the spec |
| 04:50 | <MikeSmith> | http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/toc-status.html |
| 04:50 | <MikeSmith> | that's something DanC set up a long time back |
| 04:50 | <MikeSmith> | I made some tweaks to it yesterday |
| 04:50 | <Hixie> | neat |
| 04:50 | <MikeSmith> | it's generated from the annotations db |
| 04:50 | <Hixie> | it uses the live data? sweet |
| 04:51 | <Hixie> | we should link to it from somewhere |
| 04:51 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 04:51 | <Hixie> | man i need to update the data on some of these |
| 04:52 | <Hixie> | this is good, cos it shows an overview |
| 04:52 | <Hixie> | would be nice to make it editable, if you have a spare 2 days :-D |
| 04:52 | <MikeSmith> | I may have some time to mess around with it. I'm supposed to be on vacation for the next couple of weeks |
| 05:04 | <Hixie> | man, there really isn't anything interesting in tv shows these days |
| 05:04 | <Hixie> | i wish BBC and C4 were on iTunes in the US |
| 05:04 | <Hixie> | BBC America is months behind and has the worst selection |
| 05:05 | <MikeSmith> | would imagine you could get DVDs at least |
| 05:05 | <Hixie> | DVDs aren't instant-play, and are region-locked, and aren't out yet for shows that are playing now anyway |
| 05:05 | <Hixie> | i want to see today's Have I Got News For You, e.g. |
| 05:06 | <Hixie> | or Top Gear |
| 05:06 | <Hixie> | or Channel 4 News |
| 05:06 | <Hixie> | and why is TNG not on iTunes? And why do the DVDs cost such an absurd fortune? |
| 05:07 | Hixie | adds Red Dwarf to the list of BBC shows he wishes were on US iTunes |
| 05:08 | <Hixie> | it's so sad that I could probably get a better experience if i used bittorrent |
| 05:08 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 05:08 | <Hixie> | i mean, how hard can it possibly be to take my money? |
| 05:09 | <Hixie> | i was tempted to watch the last season of BSG, but $60?! for a DRM'ed download? are you kidding me? |
| 05:10 | <Hixie> | and charging $2 for 15 minutes of daily show when i can see it with ads on the comedy central site is ridiculous |
| 05:10 | <Hixie> | $0.50, ok |
| 05:10 | <Hixie> | $2?! |
| 05:11 | <MikeSmith> | hey, people pay $3 for ringtones. or pay ridiculous per-message fees for SMS that have no relationship to the actual costs |
| 05:12 | <Hixie> | i don't |
| 05:12 | <MikeSmith> | in Japan, we deal with the SMS cost thing just by not having SMS |
| 05:13 | <Hixie> | the SMS thing is so absurd as to be laughable |
| 05:14 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, massive boondoggle |
| 05:14 | <Hixie> | and charging more for cropping a track than you paid for the track in the first place? |
| 05:14 | <Hixie> | i mean, hello? |
| 05:14 | <Hixie> | I ALREADY OWN THE MUSIC |
| 05:14 | <Hixie> | you don't need to charge me to allow the file to be used in another app |
| 05:17 | <MikeSmith> | I had figured that most content providers would have gotten past their greed and ass-backwardness by now and figured out they could be making a lot more money by pricing content reasonably and making it easier for people to get. |
| 05:17 | <MikeSmith> | but I'm wondering if they will ever actually wise up |
| 05:20 | <Hixie> | i'm really shocked that basically nobody in the TV industry has yet wised up to this stuff |
| 05:20 | <Hixie> | i mean, national boundaries are obsolete |
| 05:21 | <Hixie> | why are we still doing things by country |
| 05:59 | <hober> | Maybe in 2022 you'll have time to spec Westphalia5 |
| 06:19 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: the status indicators on http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/toc-status.html are now edit links |
| 06:19 | <MikeSmith> | the ADD ones don't work yet; "Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call method 'appendChild' of null" |
| 06:21 | <MikeSmith> | I assume because the script in the edit-section.html page isn't designed to be called this way |
| 06:23 | <MikeSmith> | it seems to work OK for existing annotations, except that the edit-section.html page doesn't give any visual indication after you click Save |
| 06:23 | <MikeSmith> | I guess it could redirect to the referring page |
| 06:23 | <MikeSmith> | anyway, maybe not best to be using it this way |
| 06:23 | <MikeSmith> | was just trying the quick-and-dirty approach first |
| 06:29 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: do you have the API for status.cgi documented? |
| 06:30 | <MikeSmith> | wondering what the possible values for action are |
| 06:30 | <MikeSmith> | other than action=get-all-annotations |
| 06:32 | <MikeSmith> | nm |
| 06:32 | MikeSmith | finds it in the code |