| 00:25 | <othermaciej> | is there a reliable standard way to tell if a document is an HTML document or an XML document |
| 00:25 | <othermaciej> | ? |
| 00:26 | <Lachy> | othermaciej, with javascript? |
| 00:28 | <Lachy> | I've done that before. There's a technique that involves something like (document.createElement("html").tagName == "HTML") returns true for HTML, false for XHTML |
| 00:28 | <othermaciej> | Lachy: I was hoping for something more elegant (and more importantly more efficient) |
| 00:29 | <Lachy> | this is another function I've used before: |
| 00:29 | <Lachy> | var isHTML = (function() { |
| 00:29 | <Lachy> | var htmlElement = document.getElementsByTagName("html").item(0); |
| 00:29 | <Lachy> | if (htmlElement) { |
| 00:29 | <Lachy> | return (htmlElement.tagName == "HTML"); |
| 00:29 | <Lachy> | } else { |
| 00:29 | <Lachy> | return false; |
| 00:29 | <Lachy> | } |
| 00:29 | <Lachy> | })(); |
| 00:31 | <Dashiva> | document.documentElement.tagName == 'HTML' |
| 00:32 | <Dashiva> | Shouldn't that do the job? |
| 00:32 | <Lachy> | Dashiva, yeah |
| 00:32 | jwalden_ | marvels at the complexities being proposed as an alternative to websocket |
| 00:32 | <Lachy> | I think there was a reason I did the more complicated method, but I can't remember what it was |
| 00:32 | <Rik`_> | Dashiva: XHTML documents would return true ? |
| 00:33 | <Lachy> | Rik`_, no because it's a case sensitive comparison |
| 00:33 | <othermaciej> | Lachy: I'll see if making a local variable is viable - I'm not sure, because I think the code in question is processing nodes from other documents |
| 00:33 | <Rik`_> | Lachy: ok, I can create a document with HTML as the root node |
| 00:34 | <Lachy> | Rik`_, oh, yeah, that was the reason. By doing getElementsByTagName("html"); it ensures that no <HTML> elements in XML would be returned |
| 00:35 | <Lachy> | but the shorthand that Dashiva used would be reliable enough for most cases |
| 00:35 | <Dashiva> | Ah, right |
| 00:36 | <Dashiva> | You never know what some crazed XML user might decide to do |
| 00:36 | <Dashiva> | But I'd then prefer maciej's way, I think |
| 00:36 | <Dashiva> | document.createElement('html').tagName == 'HTML' |
| 00:36 | <Lachy> | that was also mine! |
| 00:36 | <Dashiva> | Oh |
| 00:36 | <Dashiva> | Right |
| 00:37 | <Dashiva> | You win again! |
| 00:37 | <Lachy> | but it's less efficient since it needs to create a whole new element |
| 00:37 | <Lachy> | in fact, the code above isn't very efficient either since it has to invoke a function |
| 00:37 | <Dashiva> | That seems like an exceedingly premature optimization, given that it's done once per page |
| 00:39 | <Lachy> | yeah, I settled with the function since it was designed to execute only once, so the efficiency problem wasn't too bad |
| 00:39 | <heycam> | othermaciej, how about: var isHTML = true; try { document.write('') } catch (e) { isHTML = false; } |
| 00:39 | <Lachy> | there were a whole lot more less efficient things in that old script |
| 00:39 | <othermaciej> | heycam: HTML5 will allow document.write in XML documents, also that will erase the document |
| 00:40 | <heycam> | won't work if the document's finished parsing i suppose |
| 00:40 | <heycam> | yeah |
| 00:40 | <heycam> | othermaciej, oh will it? |
| 00:40 | <heycam> | but not currently right |
| 00:40 | <othermaciej> | if the document has finished parsing, document.write() will implicitly document.open() |
| 00:41 | <heycam> | "oh will it?" => will html5 allow document.write in XML documents? |
| 00:41 | <Lachy> | The document.write(...) method must act as follows: |
| 00:41 | <Lachy> | 1. |
| 00:41 | <Lachy> | If the method was invoked on an XML document, throw an INVALID_ACCESS_ERR exception and abort these steps. |
| 00:41 | <heycam> | wonder how easy that is to do with a standard sax parser |
| 00:41 | <Lachy> | so, no. document.write() cannot be used in XML |
| 00:42 | <othermaciej> | Lachy: ah, I thought it was going to be allowed |
| 00:42 | <othermaciej> | I must be confused or out of date |
| 00:42 | <Dashiva> | innerHTML and friends will, though |
| 00:42 | <Lachy> | othermaciej, you're out of date. There was a time it was considered, but it turned out to be unworkable |
| 00:43 | <Lachy> | which is good, IMHO. document.write() needs to die |
| 00:43 | <heycam> | Lachy, we should replace it with document.ungetc() instead :) |
| 00:44 | <Lachy> | brilliant! Just what we need, more functions that mess directly with the input stream |
| 00:45 | <othermaciej> | if we're going to expose all the wonders of stdio, we can't forget gets() |
| 00:46 | <heycam> | heh yes that's a must |
| 00:46 | <Lachy> | let's just let authors write their own javascript based parsers that can handle the whole input stream themselves |
| 05:03 | <othermaciej> | good evening everyone |
| 05:32 | <othermaciej> | so what's the deal with http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/48 (quotes and <q>)? |
| 06:01 | <MikeSmith> | othermaciej: did that not got resolved by the spec changing to say that UAs should generate quotation marks for <q> ? |
| 06:02 | <othermaciej> | MikeSmith: yes, it did |
| 06:03 | <MikeSmith> | it seems like that issue can be closed |
| 06:03 | <othermaciej> | MikeSmith: yes, I'm going to propose that |
| 06:11 | <othermaciej> | I'm not sure what the status on http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/63 is |
| 06:12 | <othermaciej> | I guess it's not complete |
| 06:21 | <MikeSmith> | othermaciej: I think issue 63 can be closed out as being no longer an issue for the HTML5 spec itself. |
| 06:22 | <othermaciej> | MikeSmith: the HTML5 spec currently specifically says to send an Origin header and what its exact contents should be - it doesn't defer to Adam Barth's draft afaict |
| 06:23 | <MikeSmith> | othermaciej: I seem to remember that the HTML5 spec sorta defined the contents of the Origin header inline |
| 06:24 | MikeSmith | goes to look |
| 06:24 | <othermaciej> | MikeSmith: yes, I think maybe it still does |
| 06:24 | <othermaciej> | MikeSmith: I think Hixie plans to update it for the Sec-From draft or something |
| 06:24 | <othermaciej> | anyway, it's not a gimme like the others I'm gonna suggest |
| 06:25 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, maybe not |
| 06:26 | <Hixie> | for Origin/Sec-From I'm waiting for instructions from abarth |
| 06:29 | <MikeSmith> | as far as that goes, it seems to me that since the HTTPbis WG and others at IETF have made it clear that it's not welcome at the IETF, the most viable option remaining seems to be spec'ing it in the WebApps WG |
| 06:31 | <othermaciej> | did they object to Sec-From? |
| 06:32 | <othermaciej> | I know they didn't like Origin |
| 06:32 | <othermaciej> | anyway |
| 06:36 | <othermaciej> | I am about to suggest closing the following (one per email, yay): http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/48 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/51 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/53 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/54 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/56 |
| 06:37 | <othermaciej> | http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/60 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/61 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/64 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/66 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/75 |
| 06:42 | <JonathanNeal> | Hi all! |
| 06:42 | <othermaciej> | hi |
| 06:43 | <JonathanNeal> | How are you doing, othermaciej? |
| 06:44 | <othermaciej> | JonathanNeal: not bad |
| 06:44 | <othermaciej> | just sent another round of proposed issue closures |
| 06:44 | <JonathanNeal> | Are you another developer, or another type-of html5 spec writer? |
| 06:45 | <MikeSmith> | othermaciej: I don't know if there was ever any discussion about sec-from with the HTTP Wg or IETF |
| 06:45 | <JonathanNeal> | Cool, I admit, I'm very new to html5 elements, aria, all the new stuff, which is why I'm hanging around here, hoping to learn and get feedback as I figure it out (hopefully). |
| 06:45 | <MikeSmith> | othermaciej: but I would expect it would meet pretty much the same reception |
| 06:45 | <othermaciej> | JonathanNeal: I'm a browser engine developer (on WebKit), and W3C HTML WG self-appointed petty bureaucrat |
| 06:46 | <othermaciej> | MikeSmith: one complaint about Origin was that it just replicated Referer, but Sec-From carries more information |
| 06:48 | <MikeSmith> | othermaciej: yeah, but another complaint was the whole "CSRF is not a problem for the Web" thing, so it's very hard to imagine getting support for them if they can't even agree about the importance of the problem that it's meant to address |
| 06:48 | <othermaciej> | MikeSmith: anyway, I agree we will have to go forum shopping if the HTTPbis WG is not enthusiastic about it |
| 06:48 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 06:48 | <JonathanNeal> | othermaciej, that's awesome. I'm a lacky developer for Liferay who got a voice in moving our new site and a lot of our core product (which is a web-based portal) to the HTML5 doctype. I'm hoping to make it much more than just a doctype change, but to take advantage of some of the new elements and recommended semantics. |
| 06:49 | <MikeSmith> | JonathanNeal: is Liferay the opposite of a death ray? |
| 06:49 | <MikeSmith> | (I bet you get asked that question a lot) |
| 06:52 | <JonathanNeal> | MikeSmith, yes, actually, we are the opposite of a Deathray. |
| 06:54 | <MikeSmith> | JonathanNeal: excellent. you guys should commission a sci-fi movie where a mad scientist builds a liferay instead of a deathray. |
| 06:55 | <MikeSmith> | except I guess it would have to then be a perfectly-sane scientist building it |
| 06:55 | <JonathanNeal> | Don't let the wikipedia entry fool you. We may specialize in professional open-source portals, but that's just a front for our giant Liferay, intended to create entire planets! |
| 06:57 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 06:57 | <annevk2> | MikeSmith, i'll make the draft ready for pub on monday, just so you know |
| 06:58 | <MikeSmith> | annevk2: yeah, I assumed you were on top of it already |
| 06:58 | <JonathanNeal> | Then we will shot the draft with our Liferay, and that's what we call "adoption" |
| 06:59 | <annevk2> | MikeSmith, I'm going MIA for a few days :) |
| 06:59 | <JonathanNeal> | annevk2, you work on the html5 document? |
| 06:59 | <MikeSmith> | annevk2: oh, OK. I hope it's something fun |
| 07:04 | <MikeSmith> | can somebody remind me how to get web-apps-tracker to show more revisions than just what it shows by default? |
| 07:05 | <JonathanNeal> | May I ask, MikeSmith, what is a web-apps-tracker? |
| 07:06 | <MikeSmith> | JonathanNeal: http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker |
| 07:06 | <annevk2> | MikeSmith, should be :) |
| 07:06 | <annevk2> | JonathanNeal, not really, I edit html5-diff |
| 07:08 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: I'm befuddled as to why some revisions don't have the Validators flag set |
| 07:08 | <MikeSmith> | e.g., http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=3626&to=3627 |
| 07:08 | <MikeSmith> | "Drop cite= from <section> and <article>" |
| 07:09 | <Hixie> | the annotations are about 80% accurate |
| 07:09 | <Hixie> | i often write the commit messages without paying much attention |
| 07:09 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: OK, that's less befuddling |
| 07:10 | <Hixie> | here's some irony |
| 07:10 | <Hixie> | i recently discovered that a bunch of my whatwg mail has been caught in my spam filters |
| 07:10 | <Hixie> | it's almost all mail from googlers... |
| 07:10 | <Hixie> | (and gmail is my spam filter) |
| 07:11 | <JonathanNeal> | MikeSmith, okay I get it, it helps you track the progress of html5? |
| 07:11 | <MikeSmith> | JonathanNeal: yeah |
| 07:11 | <annevk2> | Hixie, presumably goog spams a lot :) |
| 07:12 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: sounds like it's time you considered another mail provider |
| 07:12 | <MikeSmith> | maybe hotmail |
| 07:12 | <annevk2> | Hixie, the job hunter email from google also carried "THIS IS NOT SPAM" or some such in the subject line... |
| 07:13 | <annevk2> | (not sure job hunter is the right word here, oh well, I should leave) |
| 07:13 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: what's up with http://bugzilla.validator.nu/ ? |
| 07:14 | <JonathanNeal> | What's the difference between bugzilla validator and html5 validator? |
| 07:14 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: hmm. looks like some Ubuntu unsmoothness |
| 07:15 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I wanted to file a bug for http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7265 |
| 07:15 | <MikeSmith> | plus some other stuff |
| 07:15 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: yeah, I'll put my sysadmin hat on right now |
| 07:16 | <hsivonen> | sorry about the trouble |
| 07:16 | <MikeSmith> | thanks |
| 07:16 | <MikeSmith> | no problem man. I know you got a lot on your plate |
| 07:16 | <MikeSmith> | JonathanNeal: one is a bug-tracking system for the validator, and the other is the actual validator |
| 07:20 | <hsivonen> | so, I have a backup of the bug database. no problem there |
| 07:20 | <hsivonen> | but the Ubuntu packages have managed to break the Bugzilla cgis |
| 07:21 | <JonathanNeal> | MikeSmith, okay I get it. And that validator always says valid html5 + aria something, does that have to do with the new role attributes, for accessibility? |
| 07:21 | <hsivonen> | JonathanNeal: yes |
| 07:22 | <hsivonen> | JonathanNeal: it says "HTML5 + ARIA" as opposed to just "HTML5", because the HTML5 spec doesn't quite yet import ARIA officially |
| 07:22 | <Hixie> | i'm actually working on that right now |
| 07:28 | <JonathanNeal> | The role IDs as attributes themselves seem pretty backwards compatible with IE, from what I saw in the docs, am I right? |
| 07:28 | <hsivonen> | JonathanNeal: in the sense that they are gracefully ignored by old IE, yes |
| 07:29 | <hsivonen> | JonathanNeal: the aria-foo properties hit the ariaFoo bug in IE < 8, IIRC |
| 07:30 | <hsivonen> | JonathanNeal: also, due to selector limitations in old IE, you can't trigger styles on states and properties the way envisioned |
| 07:30 | <hsivonen> | huh. Ubuntu has uninstalled the bugzilla package! |
| 07:30 | <JonathanNeal> | Not without some js hacks, but when it comes to those tags, are they intended to be read by old ie, or the accessibility reader? |
| 07:31 | <hsivonen> | argh. packages.ubuntu.com is down |
| 07:31 | <hsivonen> | grr |
| 07:34 | <hsivonen> | hmm. there's a separate bugzilla3 package now |
| 07:34 | <hsivonen> | I wonder if it can pick up the DB |
| 07:36 | <hsivonen> | does anyone happen to know if the Right Thing happens if I have config files for package 'bugzilla' in place and install package 'bugzilla3'? |
| 07:36 | <hsivonen> | maybe I should just stick to the ancient version... |
| 07:44 | <Hixie> | Lachy: yt? |
| 08:00 | <JonathanNeal> | I've been using <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=utf-8" />, but someone said it could be shorter. When I tried the shorter one that they gave me, it failed validation. Do you guys know anything about this? |
| 08:00 | <hsivonen> | <meta charset="utf-8"> should validate. does it not? |
| 08:01 | <JonathanNeal> | I'll try it right now. |
| 08:02 | <JonathanNeal> | hsivonen, thanks that worked! |
| 08:03 | <JonathanNeal> | It gave me a warning about it though, it said "No Character Encoding Found! Falling back to UTF-8." |
| 08:03 | <hsivonen> | JonathanNeal: which validator? |
| 08:04 | <foolip> | Has anyone managed to use the spec annotation system in Gnome? Alt+double left click is supposed to be the shortcut, but alt+left click drags the window... |
| 08:04 | <JonathanNeal> | validator.w3.org, does that make me bad? |
| 08:04 | <hsivonen> | JonathanNeal: validator.w3.org has a bit legacy Perl layer between your stuff and the HTML5 validator |
| 08:04 | <hsivonen> | JonathanNeal: what you are seeing is the Perl layer being HTML5-unaware |
| 08:05 | <hsivonen> | JonathanNeal: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5992 |
| 08:06 | <JonathanNeal> | And how long does something like that usually take to get ammended or fixed? |
| 08:06 | <hsivonen> | JonathanNeal: unpredictable |
| 08:07 | <hsivonen> | JonathanNeal: MikeSmith would have better guesses |
| 08:07 | <JonathanNeal> | I liked what someone just wrote in another channel: "The nice thing about the web is you can use technologies that aren't standard yet, and the chances of future browsers breaking it is the same as if they were standardized." |
| 08:11 | <MikeSmith> | JonathanNeal: the maintainer of the Perl layer of the W3C validator has a fix in the works for the issue |
| 08:11 | <JonathanNeal> | So MikeSmith, did I already ask what you do too? |
| 08:12 | <MikeSmith> | maybe |
| 08:12 | <MikeSmith> | I couple people have reported that problem |
| 08:12 | <JonathanNeal> | Well, if neither of us remember for certain, what is it that you do then? |
| 08:13 | <MikeSmith> | I made a patch for it but my patch just makes the Perl layer completely skip doing any encoding check for HTML5 documents |
| 08:14 | <MikeSmith> | JonathanNeal: what is it that I do? |
| 08:15 | <JonathanNeal> | Yea, like "I work on the html5 project", or for whatwg, or you know, you tell me. |
| 08:16 | <JonathanNeal> | For instance, I make the thing that stops the Deathray. |
| 08:18 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: what was the problem with your patch? failing with UTF-16? |
| 08:18 | <othermaciej> | betting pool: will the HTML WG issue tracker have more than 30 issues 2 weeks from now, or fewer? |
| 08:20 | <JonathanNeal> | According to google, you might write the html5 markup language. Hmm, see that's fun. |
| 08:21 | <hsivonen> | oh joy. It seems bugzilla doesn't upgrade its database schema automatically: http://bugzilla.validator.nu/ |
| 08:23 | <hsivonen> | it's alive! (but CSS-naked) |
| 08:25 | <JonathanNeal> | Well, anyway, sorry if I offended you. |
| 08:27 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: bugzilla is back. thanks for the heads-up |
| 08:34 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: no problem with my patch except that it worked around the problem by having the perl layer not do any encoding check at all for HTML5 docs. But Ville told me he has a fix in the works for the perl layer such that it actually parses <meta charset="foo"> as expected |
| 08:36 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: I see |
| 08:37 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: big thanks for fixing the bugzilla |
| 08:37 | MikeSmith | prepares to embark on a bug-filing frenzy |
| 08:37 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: UI looks fancier |
| 08:38 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: I don't look forward to having to encourage Larry to update IRIbis |
| 08:38 | <othermaciej> | (maybe Sam can do that) |
| 08:38 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: Ubuntu pulled the 'bugzilla' package. this is 'bugzilla3' |
| 08:38 | <MikeSmith> | ah |
| 08:39 | <hsivonen> | would have been nice of them to have some apt hook automate the upgrade... |
| 08:39 | <MikeSmith> | I'm surprised it doesn't |
| 08:40 | <MikeSmith> | JonathanNeal: my official title is "Special Missions Subsection Junior Interim Floor Manager" |
| 08:40 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: well until he does, i'm pointing to danc's doc, and if that doesn't progress either, i'm stuffing it all back into html5. |
| 08:41 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: I don't personally have a problem with that |
| 08:41 | <hsivonen> | I'm surprised Micah Dubinko's Distributed Extensibility proposal hasn't made it to public-html |
| 08:42 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: do you remember what the subject line may have been on your last comments to Larry? I'm having trouble finding the email |
| 08:42 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: did Micah respond yet to your xml-dev message? |
| 08:42 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: no |
| 08:42 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: I got warnocked |
| 08:42 | <hsivonen> | and the whole thread died there |
| 08:43 | <MikeSmith> | I think Micah was away at the Balisage conference |
| 08:43 | <MikeSmith> | along with other XML folk |
| 08:43 | <hsivonen> | Balisage ended on Aug 14 |
| 08:44 | <MikeSmith> | well, I chat with Micah sometimes. So I'll bug him about it |
| 08:44 | hsivonen | assumes the proceedings of Balisage are in English |
| 08:46 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: http://www.w3.org/mid/Pine.LNX.4.62.0907281952410.3189⊙hdc |
| 08:47 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: thanks! |
| 08:48 | <Hixie> | there's a couple of other issues that have come up, too |
| 08:48 | <Hixie> | it seems the \ handling was dropped in larry's draft |
| 08:49 | <Hixie> | and we need to make sure that IRIs can be absolute URLs (right now the algorithm as defined makes only ASCII strings "absolute") |
| 08:51 | <othermaciej> | I think the latter of those is in your email |
| 08:51 | <othermaciej> | I don't remember if \ was |
| 08:51 | <othermaciej> | do you have emails for any other issues that have come up? I'm composing a nag email to Larry. |
| 08:52 | <othermaciej> | hsivonen: is it appropriate to obsolete a full media type registration in favor of a provisional registration? |
| 08:52 | <othermaciej> | hsivonen: I would think that's only appropriate once HTML5's registration becomes a final registration, which I believe happens at the PR transition or something like that |
| 08:53 | <hsivonen> | othermaciej: right, but if we need a one-sentence RFC at that time, it might be a good idea to put it on whatever IETF track it needs to be on as a draft |
| 08:54 | <othermaciej> | hsivonen: makes sense to me - I don't know how these things work |
| 08:55 | <othermaciej> | hsivonen: apparently an RFC can be declared "Historic" without there being a superseding RFC: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2026.txt |
| 08:55 | <othermaciej> | (section 4.2.4) |
| 08:55 | <hsivonen> | othermaciej: ok. I guess that solves the problem |
| 08:56 | <othermaciej> | hsivonen: 6.4 describes the procedure - it requires an IESG action apparently |
| 09:01 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: I sent a nag note to Larry - feel free to follow up linking emails with other critical feedback, or if you point me to them I can do so |
| 09:10 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: would some term like "HTML URL" be acceptable, to disambiguate from the standard-official flavor of URL? (I agree URI/IRI/LEIRI are full of fail and confusion) |
| 09:14 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: there's nothing HTML-specific about these |
| 09:14 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: I could suggest "Web URL" but I am not sure that would make anyone happy |
| 09:15 | <Hixie> | i'm not saying "bla bla Web URL" every time i need to refer to a URL |
| 09:16 | <Hixie> | these "URLs" have the same relationship to the URI/IRI specs as HTML5 does to HTML4 |
| 09:16 | <othermaciej> | hopefully few enough people care about this that the terminology issue can just go away |
| 09:16 | <Hixie> | they're not some sort of browser thing or whatever |
| 09:16 | <Hixie> | hopefully |
| 09:16 | <Hixie> | anyway, bed time |
| 09:16 | <Hixie> | nn |
| 09:16 | <othermaciej> | good night! |
| 09:30 | <othermaciej> | I'm off to bed myself, goodnight folks |
| 09:33 | <hsivonen> | http://camp.woothemes.com/2009/08/29-designers-developers-have-their-say-on-html5-css3/ is interesting |
| 09:33 | <hsivonen> | I'm surprised how much they like the new structural elements |
| 09:34 | <hsivonen> | Despite the dislike on ALA |
| 09:35 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: It doesn't seem that surprising (ALA notwithstanding). They are people who work at the markup level a lot. Things that help make their markup more understandable/easier to maintain have tangible benefits for them |
| 09:36 | <jgraham> | Not to mention the "Now with Extra Semantic Goodness (TM)" factor |
| 09:50 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: please take a look at http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/status.html and let me know if that's what you had in mind |
| 10:03 | <jgraham> | MikeSmith: I don't see any change... |
| 10:23 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: I think you might to to force-reload to bypass your cache |
| 10:26 | jgraham | tries the gambit of switching browser |
| 10:27 | <jgraham> | Oh yeah, that looks perfect |
| 10:27 | <jgraham> | Thanks! |
| 10:30 | <jgraham> | (does it work for anyone else in Opera? Maybe we have an xslt bug...) |
| 10:32 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: I think I had the same problem with it in other browsers |
| 10:45 | <Lachy> | the code readability improvements with the new structural elements was one of the many reasons we went with those, instead of using <div role="..."> for everthing. It's good to see we were right about that. |
| 12:09 | <foolip> | does anyone have a good resource or test cases for how xmlns:prefix is handled in text/html? |
| 12:10 | <foolip> | am I correct to assume that it doesn't affect rendering but only some subtleties about the namespace in which that attribute ends up in? |
| 12:10 | <hsivonen> | foolip: there are some demos in http://hsivonen.iki.fi/test/moz/ |
| 12:10 | <hsivonen> | foolip: look for "xmlns" |
| 12:11 | <hsivonen> | foolip: it doesn't affect anything outside SVG and MathML subtrees |
| 12:11 | <hsivonen> | foolip: xmlns:link is special in SVG and MathML subtrees |
| 12:12 | <hsivonen> | but otherwise, xmlns:prefix becomes a no-namespace attribute with local name "xmlns:prefix" and that's it |
| 12:12 | <foolip> | doesn't sound like a serious issue |
| 12:12 | <hsivonen> | foolip: issue for what? |
| 12:13 | <foolip> | so from a scripts point of view the only difference is getAttribute("xmlns:prefix") or getAttributeNS("http://that/xmlns/namespace";, "xmlns:prefix") depending on text/html or application/xhtml+xml namespace? |
| 12:13 | <hsivonen> | foolip: no. |
| 12:14 | <hsivonen> | if you use stuff like lookupNamespaceURI, xmlns:prefix attributes in text/html don't participate |
| 12:14 | <hsivonen> | but in application/xhtml+xml they do |
| 12:15 | <hsivonen> | basically, in text/html xmlns:prefix is garbage and isn't senstive to anything that http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace attributes are sensitive to |
| 12:15 | <hsivonen> | furthermore, no-namespace attribute with colons in them can't be serialized as XML |
| 12:16 | <foolip> | ah, so for text/html you'd have to traverse parent nodes looking for "xmlns:*" attributes and emulate the behavior? |
| 12:16 | <hsivonen> | foolip: yes |
| 12:17 | <hsivonen> | basically, you can't use any DOM Level 2 or Level 3 features consistently across text/html and application/xhtml+xml with xmlns:prefix |
| 12:17 | <foolip> | can a script know if it's in XML DOM or HTML DOM? |
| 12:17 | <hsivonen> | foolip: yes |
| 12:18 | <hsivonen> | foolip: createElement("div").tagName == "DIV" |
| 12:18 | <foolip> | as you might guess, this is all in relation to RDFa and I'm trying to understand precisely what the problems are beyond "namespace don't work" |
| 12:18 | <hsivonen> | I guessed |
| 12:18 | <foolip> | ah right, that would work |
| 12:18 | <hsivonen> | foolip: the party line at the RDF-in-XHTML-TF is that you should only use DOM Level 1 when dealing with RDFa |
| 12:19 | <foolip> | hsivonen: but getAttribute("xmlns:prefix") wouldn't work in XML would it? |
| 12:19 | <hsivonen> | which isn't a great way to sweep the issue under the rug in browser-internal APIs that are more like Level 2 |
| 12:19 | <foolip> | the attribute itself isn't in the null namespace? |
| 12:19 | <hsivonen> | foolip: IIRC, it does in browser impls |
| 12:20 | <foolip> | hmm, I never quite understood the gory details of getAttribute/getAttributeNS, need to experiment |
| 12:20 | <foolip> | gsnedders, you mentioned that IE does wonky with : in attribute names, do you have any more information on this? |
| 12:21 | <foolip> | +things |
| 12:21 | <hsivonen> | hmm. looks like I don't have a demo for getAttribute in XHTML |
| 12:22 | <hsivonen> | foolip: anyway, this is an "here be dragons" area, and it's a terrible idea that RDFa went poking at it |
| 12:23 | <gsnedders|work> | foolip: It's specifically xmlns:* it's whacky on. Dunno much more detail myself. |
| 12:23 | <foolip> | right, but I'm trying to get a more precise understanding about the nature of these dragons |
| 12:23 | <jgraham> | Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus |
| 12:24 | <hsivonen> | foolip: remember to test getAttibute with parser-inserted attributes, setAttribute-inserted and setAttributeNS-inserted |
| 12:25 | <hsivonen> | I guess setAttributeNode, too if you want really evil tests |
| 12:32 | <foolip> | hsivonen: thanks for the tips, it'll be a fun weekend with this :) |
| 12:47 | <hsivonen> | hmm. I wonder if I've sent spec feedback about document.written charset meta |
| 12:55 | <hsivonen> | hmm. bugzilla.validator.nu switched from English to German... |
| 12:57 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: are you using a browser that broadcasts German as the preferred language? |
| 12:57 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: nope |
| 12:58 | <MikeSmith> | though I think I have my Minefield set to Japanese as preferred |
| 12:58 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: ok. then it's picking it from your browser |
| 12:58 | <MikeSmith> | hmm, that's weird |
| 12:59 | <MikeSmith> | it's not showing me anything in German |
| 12:59 | <MikeSmith> | nor Japanese |
| 12:59 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: it seems it thinks that "Site Default" email language is now German |
| 13:00 | <MikeSmith> | hmm, maybe it's picking it up from my KDE environment |
| 13:00 | <MikeSmith> | some secret KDE feature to promote the German language more widely |
| 13:00 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: I fixed it |
| 13:00 | <MikeSmith> | OK |
| 13:01 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: I think it was because de sorts to the top of the list in de, en, fr |
| 13:01 | <MikeSmith> | ah |
| 13:01 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: oops. look like I omitted a "not" when I meant to say it is not picking the default from your browser |
| 13:01 | <hsivonen> | sorry |
| 13:03 | <MikeSmith> | and I was looking forward to learning German by using bugzilla |
| 13:03 | <MikeSmith> | so much for that plan.. |
| 13:03 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: you can still tweak personal prefs! |
| 13:04 | <MikeSmith> | OK, in that case I think I'll choose to use it to learn Finnish instead |
| 13:05 | <hsivonen> | sorry, only de, en, fr available |
| 13:22 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: where's v.nu checking the format of the <time> element? in the htmlparser and xmlparser code? |
| 13:24 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: attribute is in datatype lib |
| 13:24 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, I knew the attribute was |
| 13:24 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: element content is under non-schema somewhere implemented as a SAX holder for a datatype |
| 13:25 | <MikeSmith> | OK |
| 13:30 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: so, as far I can tell, it doesn't allow any element content, e.g., <time><i>2008</i></time> -- it only allows character data. |
| 13:30 | <MikeSmith> | right? |
| 13:32 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: hmm. that's not how I read the spec back when I implemented checking |
| 13:32 | <MikeSmith> | maybe the spec changed since |
| 13:32 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: if <time><i>2008</i></time> weren't allowed, the holder thing would be unnecessary |
| 13:32 | <MikeSmith> | well, the spec currently says that it's the textContent of the element |
| 13:33 | <MikeSmith> | erp |
| 13:33 | <MikeSmith> | maybe my mistake |
| 13:34 | <MikeSmith> | damn |
| 13:35 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: sorry for the noise |
| 13:35 | <MikeSmith> | my mistake |
| 14:23 | <gsnedders|work> | hsivonen: I guess you know that HTML 5 parser sometimes gives adjacent text nodes? |
| 14:24 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders|work: by design based on Philip`'s spec feedback, right? |
| 14:25 | <hsivonen> | looks like the xmlns:prefix discussion triggered a flurry of tweets... |
| 14:25 | <hsivonen> | http://twitter.com/shelleypowers |
| 14:25 | <gsnedders|work> | hsivonen: Uh, no idea |
| 14:28 | <gsnedders|work> | hsivonen: <b>Test</i>Test should still give one text node, no? |
| 14:29 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders|work: why? |
| 14:29 | <gsnedders|work> | (Or am I missing which feedback you meant?) |
| 14:30 | <hsivonen> | hmm. that one might be a bug per spec |
| 14:30 | <gsnedders|work> | That is a bug per spec, as there is no node inserted by the parser between those two character tokens |
| 14:31 | <gsnedders|work> | FWIW: http://gsnedders.html5.org/html5lib-tests/runner.html |
| 14:32 | <gsnedders|work> | (Which works more cross-browser than http://html5.org/parsing-tests/testrunner.htm for me) |
| 14:40 | <zcorpan> | <audio style=display:inline>hello</audio> |
| 14:41 | <zcorpan> | maybe audio should be display:none !important in the ua style sheet (like noscript)? |
| 14:42 | <zcorpan> | audio:not([controls]) that is |
| 15:05 | <zcorpan> | what's the use case for createImageData(imagedata) again? |
| 15:05 | <zcorpan> | afaict it's just convenience for createImageData(imagedata.width, imagedata.height) |
| 15:06 | <foolip> | with some added confusion (hey this might a copy constructor!) |
| 15:17 | <TabAtkins> | I wonder if these are the sorts of rules that make the guys building CSS engines wince for their performance: |
| 15:17 | <TabAtkins> | #faqs-by-section input.lang-chooser.en-US:checked ~ dl ul.entries > li:not(.en-us) |
| 15:21 | <zcorpan> | could have been worse; at least you used a child selector |
| 15:24 | <TabAtkins> | True. |
| 15:48 | <jgraham> | So there are rumors of a document containg all the IDL from all web specs. Does anyone know where it is? Or is there some other way of finding out a comprehensive list of all objects that should implement a given interface |
| 15:52 | <MikeSmith> | I think I asked about this before, but I'll ask again - I got a request for a German-speaking presenter to speak at an event in Berlin on September 14 |
| 15:52 | <MikeSmith> | presentation about HTML5 |
| 15:52 | <MikeSmith> | any recommendations? |
| 15:56 | <gsnedders|work> | Coincidently, I may happen to be in Berlin then. I do not, however, speak German. (Nor, for that matter, am I any good at presenting in any language.) |
| 15:56 | <myakura> | I got a request, too. On Oct 29 in Tokyo, though. |
| 15:58 | <MikeSmith> | gsnedders|work: just wing it |
| 15:58 | <gsnedders|work> | MikeSmith: No |
| 15:58 | <MikeSmith> | you can learn german by setting your bugzilla locale preferences to "de" |
| 15:58 | <MikeSmith> | it's that simple |
| 15:58 | <TabAtkins> | I have it on good authority that if you just sound like a monster screaming into a staticky walkietalkie while underwater, German people will understand you. |
| 15:59 | <jgraham> | That's Danish |
| 16:00 | jgraham | wonders if WebIDL will be updated to use ES5 terminology |
| 16:00 | <TabAtkins> | Interesting. |
| 16:01 | <MikeSmith> | if you ever get a chance to hear a Norwegian person imitating a Danish person, I recommend grabbing that chance |
| 16:01 | <TabAtkins> | Hehe, k. |
| 16:04 | <Dashiva> | Why wait? |
| 16:04 | <Dashiva> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk |
| 16:09 | <TabAtkins> | Dashiva: hahaha |
| 16:09 | <jcranmer> | knowing neither Danish nor Norwegian |
| 16:09 | <MikeSmith> | myakura: what is the October event? |
| 16:09 | <jcranmer> | I can honestly say that what I got out of it was "Norwegians poking fun at Danes" |
| 16:09 | <TabAtkins> | I also got "people over there talk funny". |
| 16:10 | <myakura> | @MikeSmith: the one in Ginza, CSS Nite |
| 16:10 | <MikeSmith> | ah |
| 16:10 | <TabAtkins> | But I said it to myself in a thick Texan drawl, so I don't think I really get much from that. |
| 16:10 | <MikeSmith> | myakura: so you going to do it? |
| 16:12 | <Philip`> | jgraham: You can't disturb me much when I'm not actually looking at IRC for 23 hours |
| 16:12 | <jgraham> | Philip`: I could hunt you down and disturb you |
| 16:13 | <jgraham> | I just chose not to |
| 16:13 | <jcranmer> | I guess a good US analogue is Southerners poking fun at Harvard graduates |
| 16:13 | <Philip`> | jgraham: I guess there's some buffering and you'd need to flush it, perhaps by closing the thingy, or something, I don't know really |
| 16:13 | <jcranmer> | "I go to Hahvahd, so I can't say an ah' |
| 16:13 | Philip` | goes away again |
| 16:13 | <myakura> | MikeSmith: yeah |
| 16:13 | gsnedders|work | wonders where away is, in case he needs to track Philip`down |
| 16:13 | <Philip`> | Oh, if paul_irish reads IRC logs then he should probably email comments to me |
| 16:14 | <Philip`> | gsnedders|work: Spain |
| 16:14 | <gsnedders|work> | Dammit, jgraham was right! |
| 16:14 | <gsnedders|work> | (I have secret communication channels with jgraham, obviously.) |
| 16:15 | <TabAtkins> | jcranmer: Yeah, that's probably right. |
| 16:15 | <jgraham> | jcranmer: It seems quite common in scandinavia to be bemused by Danish pronounciation. It seems like it is actually quite odd and not _just_ people taking the piss for other people taking differntley |
| 16:15 | <TabAtkins> | jcranmer: Though we like making fun of people from Minnesota more. They talk *really* funny. |
| 16:15 | <jcranmer> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hahvahd... that actually redirects to Harvard |
| 16:15 | <jgraham> | e.g. apparently the language is changing so fast that you can identify when expats left denmark from their voice alone |
| 16:16 | <TabAtkins> | jcranmer: *awesome* |
| 16:17 | <jcranmer> | the biggest thing I know about those people is that they call soda "pop" |
| 16:18 | <TabAtkins> | They have an "ae"/"ah" swap somewhat ("I'll get a baeg of bahgels"), and stretch their "o" into a long "oo". "I'm from Minnesooota." |
| 16:19 | <TabAtkins> | I spent a few weeks touring Europe with a group of minnesotans. Much hilarity ensued. |
| 16:19 | <TabAtkins> | Unfortunately for them I'm from Houston, which homogenizes my accent into basically American Standard with a touch of drawl. |
| 17:11 | <MikeSmith> | anybody having trouble now getting the whatwg version of the spec to load |
| 17:12 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: yes. |
| 17:12 | <hsivonen> | did Acid3 get slashdotted again or something? |
| 17:15 | <Dashiva> | More like dreamhost is up to their old tricks, I'd guess |
| 17:22 | <MikeSmith> | Dashiva: I think it's Loki taking revenge. He got PO'ed because we were making fun of Norskis who make fun of Danes |
| 17:24 | <MikeSmith> | Is Loki from Iceland? or from Denmark? or just generally Scandinavian? |
| 17:24 | <MikeSmith> | does Finland have gods? |
| 17:28 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: yes. Ukko and Akka at least |
| 17:28 | MikeSmith | searches |
| 17:29 | <hsivonen> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukko |
| 17:29 | <hsivonen> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akka_%28Spirit%29 |
| 17:32 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: Ilmarinen sounds cooler |
| 17:32 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: yeah, ukko means an old man these days |
| 17:32 | <hsivonen> | and akka an old woman (with a derogatory connotation) |
| 17:46 | <foolip> | hmm, whatwg.org down? |
| 17:51 | <Dashiva> | MikeSmith: Scandinavia was more or less one culture back then, yeah |
| 17:51 | <Dashiva> | Finland always has to be different, though |
| 20:16 | <abarth> | is whatwg.org down? |
| 20:16 | <abarth> | i can't seem to load the web site |
| 20:17 | <tantek> | I can't load it either but this site claims whatwg.org is up: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/whatwg.com |
| 20:19 | <Dashiva> | tantek: That's .com |
| 20:19 | <gavin_> | down for me too |
| 20:19 | <Dashiva> | It claims whatwg.org is down :) |
| 20:19 | <abarth> | ha |
| 20:19 | <abarth> | that site is great! |
| 20:20 | <abarth> | i like how it defaults to google.com |
| 20:20 | <annodomini> | I can ping it, but can't get it to respond to HTTP |
| 20:21 | <annodomini> | http://www.dreamhoststatus.com/2009/08/21/some-unexpected-private-server-downtime/ |
| 20:21 | <annodomini> | Possibly relevant? |
| 20:23 | <tantek> | ah, good catch Dashiva |
| 21:25 | <nikola_tesla> | I've got a question relating to <canvas>: Essentially, is there any clever trick to use that can allow click events to pass through transparent portions of a canvas element? Similar to the way SVG works? |
| 21:27 | <nikola_tesla> | I have a project that uses <canvas> to draw some overlay elements on screen that are absolutely positioned, many on top of each other. The canvas dimensinos overlay on areas that are transparent, leaving the user to think they can access the underlying overlay. This doesn't happen obviously. |
| 21:28 | <nikola_tesla> | I was thinking about maybe creating some kind of transparent event layer over the entire screen to simulate this, but that sounds kind of dumb. Alternatively I guess my only last option is to move to SVG. |
| 21:28 | <nikola_tesla> | any thoughts would be appreciated. |
| 21:42 | <nikola_tesla> | Sorry if this is the wrong forum, I was directed here. But if this is the proper place for such discussion and you have an idea, please email me at robotsu⊙gc |
| 22:13 | <Hixie> | i wonder how the yahoo/bing thing affects searchmonkey |
| 22:30 | <Lachy_> | Hixie, I was speaking to a collegue today who had an interesting, though not entirely convincing, proposal for a <pdf> element... |
| 22:30 | <Hixie> | Lachy_: can you stick a google2569a0eb653e4cf1.html file at the root of the blog.whatwg.org domain? |
| 22:30 | <Lachy_> | His use case was for being able to embed PDF documents in web pages, and having native support in the browsers. |
| 22:30 | <Hixie> | i'm trying to register the site in the google webmaster tools console |
| 22:31 | <Lachy_> | like what http://www.scribd.com/ is doing, but without flash |
| 22:31 | <Lachy_> | Hixie, ok, will do it now |
| 22:31 | <Hixie> | isn't "iframe" enough to do that? |
| 22:31 | <Lachy_> | just an empty file with that name? |
| 22:31 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 22:31 | <Lachy_> | that's what I told him |
| 22:31 | <Hixie> | i mean, safari seems to do it fine... |
| 22:31 | <Lachy_> | yeah, I know, that was also mentioned. I was just passing along the discussion, in case he decides to present it anyway |
| 22:32 | <Hixie> | k |
| 22:32 | <Lachy_> | http://blog.whatwg.org/google2569a0eb653e4cf1.html |
| 22:33 | <Lachy_> | I also questioned him about whether or not an API for controlling the PDF was essential, similar to <video>, but he just seemed to say yes without being able to explain why |
| 22:34 | <Hixie> | heh |
| 22:34 | <Hixie> | thanks Lachy_ |
| 22:36 | <TabAtkins> | Man, iframes never occur to me for things like embedding PDFs. |
| 22:36 | <Lachy> | TabAtkins, I think the problem with using iframes now is that most browsers lack native support for PDF |
| 22:37 | <Lachy> | and, IIRC, results in a save as dialog as soon as the page tries to load |
| 22:37 | <TabAtkins> | Yeah, but most people have an acceptable plugin already installed (in a crazy world where the adobe plugin is 'acceptable'). |
| 22:37 | <Hixie> | ok i resubmitted the blog for the index |
| 22:40 | <Lachy> | TabAtkins, most Mac users wouldn't have the Adobe viewer installed, since Preview.app works just fine for most needs |
| 22:40 | <TabAtkins> | how do mac users handle a normal pdf link? |
| 22:40 | <TabAtkins> | Does Preview.app intercept those or something? |
| 22:40 | <Lachy> | depends on the browser |
| 22:40 | <Lachy> | Safari just opens it within the browser itself, |
| 22:41 | <Lachy> | Firefox and Opera offer to download the file or open with the default app |
| 22:41 | <TabAtkins> | K. |
| 23:04 | <Hixie> | gotta love how aria's role=img isn't the same as <img> |
| 23:05 | <othermaciej> | that's funny |
| 23:09 | <Hixie> | also <marquee> is not a role=marquee |
| 23:12 | <tlsa> | Hixie: i dunno if this is of any interest http://wiki.netsurf-browser.org/Spec/HTML5_Alignment |
| 23:13 | <Hixie> | yeah, that would be good to send to the list |
| 23:13 | <Hixie> | i'm always happy to make the language clearer where it's opaque |
| 23:14 | <tlsa> | also, it doesn't mention how html aligment does not propagate into TABLE descendants |
| 23:16 | <tlsa> | also, we have test cases: |
| 23:16 | <tlsa> | http://source.netsurf-browser.org/trunk/netsurftest/other/aligntests/index.html |
| 23:16 | <tlsa> | for determining how other browsers handled html alignment & css propertys |
| 23:16 | <tlsa> | results here: http://source.netsurf-browser.org/trunk/netsurftest/other/aligntests/AlignTestResults.txt |
| 23:17 | <Hixie> | yeah, definitely send that feedback to the list |
| 23:17 | <tlsa> | ok, which list? |
| 23:20 | <Hixie> | whatwg⊙wo, or public-html⊙wo, or any of the other feedback mechanisms mentioned at the top of the spec |
| 23:21 | <Hixie> | easiest to subscribe to is the first of those |
| 23:21 | <tlsa> | right, i'll post tomorrow |
| 23:21 | tlsa | --> bed |
| 23:21 | <Hixie> | thanks! |
| 23:22 | <Hixie> | ARIA is confusing |
| 23:22 | <Hixie> | listitem is defined as "A single item in a list, listbox, or directory" |
| 23:22 | <Hixie> | but is not allows as a child of a "listbox" |
| 23:22 | <Hixie> | s/allows/allowed |
| 23:24 | <TabAtkins> | Hixie: That looks like a mistake on listitem. Listbox is only supposed to contain option as children. |
| 23:25 | <Hixie> | does <section> map to role=region? |
| 23:25 | <Hixie> | role=section is abstract... |
| 23:27 | <TabAtkins> | Hrm. The listbox is actually really confusing. It has both list and select as parents. List has to have listitem or group children, but selects have option children generally. |
| 23:28 | <TabAtkins> | Hixie: role=region seems to be appropriate only if the <section> doesn't map to any of the landmark roles. |
| 23:28 | <Hixie> | what other landmark roles might apply? |
| 23:29 | <Hixie> | main and search? |
| 23:30 | <TabAtkins> | application, main, search |
| 23:30 | <Hixie> | contentinfo maybe |
| 23:30 | <Hixie> | not application, surely |
| 23:30 | <TabAtkins> | maybe contentinfo if <footer> isn't appropriate |
| 23:30 | <TabAtkins> | oh hrm, you're right. application should be reserved for <article> |
| 23:30 | <Hixie> | i thought it should be reserved for <html> |
| 23:31 | gsnedders | laughs at how well people manage to agree on this |
| 23:31 | <TabAtkins> | A single page can have a document and application section, though. |
| 23:31 | <Hixie> | it can? |
| 23:31 | <othermaciej> | couldn't a page have multiple "applications" if it embeds widgets? |
| 23:31 | <Hixie> | i guess |
| 23:31 | <TabAtkins> | that's what I'm getting out of the section, at least. |
| 23:31 | <Hixie> | the definition of "application" is "A region declared as a web application, as opposed to a web document." |
| 23:32 | <othermaciej> | conversely, couldn't an "application" contain a "document", like GMail's content view showing a mail message? |
| 23:32 | <Hixie> | yeah they have that as an example |
| 23:32 | <TabAtkins> | possible example of document containing an application: blog with a comment form? |
| 23:32 | <TabAtkins> | rich comment form, that is. |
| 23:34 | <othermaciej> | a blog with sidebar widgets |
| 23:34 | <othermaciej> | would be a document containing an application |
| 23:34 | <TabAtkins> | Hixie: I would bring up the listitem/listbox thing as a bug. There's no way to reconcile those two. |
| 23:35 | <Hixie> | the draft i'm looking at doesnt |
| 23:35 | <Hixie> | say where to send comments |
| 23:36 | <TabAtkins> | http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/ says to send it to the pfwg list |
| 23:36 | <TabAtkins> | wai-xtech⊙wo |
| 23:37 | <TabAtkins> | public-pfwg-comments⊙wo |
| 23:37 | <TabAtkins> | it says to copy both |
| 23:37 | <Hixie> | thx |